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CAR CHOICES

You need something that gets good mileage and has airbags and stability control, skip the VW bug you don't want to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair. An automobile is a very serious choice and if your dad is suggesting an old VW bug it sounds like you need to be the serious one. There are also serious environmental problems with driving an old car much.
 
PeteK....oh, right. I see that now. I guess the more I thread through the OP's post, the more it was looking like the car was for him, and other posters were even advising him against owning it.

So my recommendation still stands, and I'll modify the comments about his ownership, just to say; don't kill yourself in that thing. It'll get away from you very fast, and lacking the skill to control that much power, you WILL very likely wrap it around the nearest power pole or tree at 100-something mph.

Regarding buying cars with stability control, air bags, and "new low emmissions vehicles"......I disagree. People have been driving for 100 years without stab-control and air bags. Those 2 things, IMO, don't need to be at the top of the shopping list. If a person knows how to drive, they don't need a computer controlling the power to the wheels, or applying the brakes. Air bags are great, don't get me wrong, but again, how many gazillion miles have we all traveled prior to having air bags and we're all still alive. Only one of my cars has dual air bags, and really, I could care less that it does. Just my opinion.

As for the old car vs. new low emmissions car. Think about the pollution that it takes to build a modern car. And that modern car still burns gas and oil, and barely gets any better mileage than older cars. In fact, many new cars get worse mileage. So does running around in a 10, 20, or even 30 year old car cause pollution? That car's manufacturing pollution was created and absorbed decades ago. It probably gets the same, or better mileage. Does my 1990 Suburban that gets 11/17mpg pollute more than a brand new Suburban that gets 12/18? Does my 1981 VW Rabbit Diesel Pickup that gets 40mpg pollute more than a brand new Ford Ranger that gets 15/20mpg? Does my buddy's 1985 Honda Civic HF that gets 55mpg pollute more than a modern honda that gets 30-something mpg?

Anyway, while I understand that as far as the exhaust gasses that we test for, modern cars have cleaner emmissions at the tail pipe, and en-mass, that's a good thing, I don't believe in the theorey that old cars are polluting and therefore should be avoided (and hopefully crushed), because I'm looking at the total picture, not just the water dripping out of that fancy chrome tailpipe.
 
OK folks.

We moved away from the yellow beetle. The interior was a wreck.

Next saturday, we are driving out to buy this.

A 1967 VW fully restored. New motor and interior, and bodywork.

washernoob++4-25-2011-20-33-41.jpg
 
'67 bug

so is that going to be "your"bug?-looks really nice with a major instrument
panel upgrade,even has cylinder head temperature.
Back in the late '70s/early '80s there was enough bugs in daily use to play
"slugbug"on the school bus! several teachers had them too,usually with a
little plug in heater to warm up the interior before driving off on cold days
as the exhaust "muffs"don't provide much heat when engine is under light
load..
 
Hehe. Yes the buggy will be mine.

Im getting beetlejuice in some form as my license plate too. :D

My grandpa always tells me stories of his 59 and 61 bugs. He told me the heater was so quality. A little vent in the floor that you opened up and the heat from the motor was pushed through by the cooling fan, and burned your leg! LOL

My mom talks about her friends beetle. They would drive it when it was like 0 degrees outside, and the only heat seemed to be coming from the LIGHTBULB on the dash heater control. LOL.
 
Beetle Thoughts . . .

<span style="font-size: medium;">As John noted above, think very carefully about trying to use an old Beetle as a daily driver. They’re interesting and probably the cheapest real collector cars out there in terms of maintenance costs, but they’re still heavily based on a 1930’s design. ’67 was the last year for the old swing-axle rear suspension in all Beetles, with ’68 a transition year and ’69 the first year of the four-joint rear suspension on all cars. The swing axle is exactly what got Chevy in trouble for the first series Corvairs, even though they did a much better job of it than VW. So handling can be wacky in many circumstances; the later Beetles are better but still suffer from a nasty combination of lots of weight at the tail and a high center of gravity. They do not crash well at all, hardly a surprise given the age of the design, and the seat belt anchorages are an added-on afterthought. Some of them suffer from weak seat mounts that tend to break in a rear end wreck, which is pretty devastating as the driver and front passenger are then propelled toward and possibly out of the rear window. That’s not unknown in really old cars and the result used to be broken necks and paralysis. There is also the problem of finding a mechanic who is skilled at maintaining a very old-tech car well enough to allow it to operate in all kinds of weather; believe it or not I know of one local shop that dislikes working on carbureted cars as they only have one outside resource for quality carb work, and he’s getting old. </span>

<span style="font-size: medium;">I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here but for regular use there are far, far better cars out there. An ‘80s Mustang GT might use a little more fuel but is vastly safer, more comfortable, and can be maintained by lots of shops. Plenty of reliable Japanese stuff too, or if you really want to go German then good Mk. I and Mk. II Golfs (Rabbits here in the US) are starting to become quite collectible and parts supply is still pretty good as the Mk. I was produced until recently in South Africa.</span>

 
A word of caution on buying Type 1's. They've had a million owners and been butchered to death as is evidenced in your photos with all the cheap bling everywhere. That engine is all red flags to me.

For example, look at the overspray from the cheap single stage paint, on the weather stripping around the engine hatch. This is not a restore car. This is car that's been cheaply slapped together, given a cheap paint job, and blinged out to attract an unknowleable buyer. Don't be that family. A real restoration on a '67 would take 10-20k depending on the level of detail, and 4-ish of that would be in the engine alone.

Do you realize how much maintenance a Type 1 takes? Are you prepared to do it, and do you possess the skill, training, and tools? Any idea of the quality of parts that went into that engine....Brazilian? Mexican? German? Chinese? Spanish?

Few engines are as hard to build correctly.......emphasis on CORRECTLY.......as a air cooled VW engine and finding someone who actually knows how to build one is nearly impossible.

You'll be doing or paying to have done, an oil change and a valve adjustment every 3,000mi. If you don't (and even if you do, depending on build quality) it'll suck a valve and grenade the engine.

I would not touch that car with a 10' pole unless I had a very qualified local German independant shop inspect it top to bottom. To me, it looks like a rotary grenade.
 
the bugs 1930s origin..

i heard somewhere that hitler became fascinated with the czech tatra car
and set Dr.porsche to work on coming up with something similar-the "bug"
was the result.Sometimes you will see an early bug in ww2 photos but they
were rare at that time.
 
As an owner of a 70' Bug that runs flawlessly I say if you are going to get a bug, you'd be better off finding one that has been unmolested. Also, in the midwest a lot of bugs rust out. The rust can remain hidden in the heater channels until it's too late.
However, you can get a bug for much less money in California and have it shipped to you. That's what I did. I found a single owner 70' all original bug in SFO and had it shipped here to Houston in a covered trailer. The bug cost $2800, and the shipping was $900. The bug is totally rust free. I could get $5K for it easily around here.
If you get a bug, learn how to work on it yourself. It's not that hard if you put your mind to it and stock up on reference manuals.
Another thing about 67' bugs, they are loaded with 67' only parts. So some parts may be only available at swap meets.

And the MOST IMPORTANT thing of all!
Bugs are known for catching on fire! The FIRST thing you are going to want to do with any bug is to:

Replace all fuel hoses from the tank to the engine.
Relocate the fuel filter from the engine to just behind the fuel tank.
Check and recheck the hole where the fuel line comes through the engine tin into the engine compartment. This is a known chaff point on the hose, and eventually will chaff right through pouring fuel into the engine compartment. You can put an O ring in the hole to slow this process down, but still check it monthly!
 
Tatra and Porsche . . .

Hitler liked cars but knew very little about them - he never even learned to drive. Even so he quickly grasped the great advantages of a high-speed road network linking all parts of Germany together for both military and civilian uses. In most European countries at the time cars were seen as luxuries and even inexpensive cars were heavily taxed. Hitler decided to create a government sponsored car as a propaganda resource to promote his National Socialist party and their vision of the future of the Third Reich.

 

At the time, the original Dr. Porsche (Ferdinand) was a respected and experienced automotive engineer who had mostly worked on expensive cars or race cars. Like many other engineers, he became fascinated by the prospect of putting the engine, transmission, and differential at one end of the car. Very early cars had been this way but as engine size increased it became impractical. However by the early thirties technical advances had made engines smaller and more efficient. Dr. Porsche also really wanted to design a small and inexpensive car but none of his employers had any interest in that. Eventually he started his own engineering company doing consulting work and did some preliminary studies for a small rear engined car. This went nowhere until the German government commissioned a study from him for their small car ("KdF Wagen", for the KdF branch of the government that was in charge of the car). Porsche then adapted his rear-engined design to suit the government requirements. By the late '30s it was pretty well developed, but the Beetle never went into mass production due to the war; all the cars built were hand-made prototypes or promotional cars. The first VW to be mass produced was the military Kubelwagen,  Germany's WWII answer to the Jeep.

 

While Porsche was busy designing his car Hans Ledwinka at Tatra was a couple of steps ahead with his own rear-engined cars.  He'd been at Tatra since the '20s and had proven his own abilities on more conventional cars and so was able to do some radical engineering. In '33 they brought out the Type 77, a very fast if rather unstable car with a rear-mounted, air cooled V8. This was replaced by an improved Type 87 a couple of years later, and by the late '30s he also had a smaller car with an air cooled flat four in production, albeit larger and more expensive than the VW. Clearly, Ledwinka and Tatra were first in production with their designs but he was quite aware of what Porsche was doing with the VW project. Many years later Tatra sued VW and did win some money, but it is really difficult due to the conditions in the '30s to ascertain who was copying who.

 

When Germany invaded Czechoslovakia many officers tried to "requistion" any V8 Tatras they could as the cars were among the fastest on the road outside of exotic luxury cars. Eventually they were forbidden to do so by the German military, not of out consideration for the real owners of the cars, but because the combination of a swing axle rear suspension, lots of power, and poor roads often proved fatal for inexperienced drivers. 

 

After WWII ended Tatra continued Type 87  production for awhile until the Czech Communist Party decided that they didn't need to make a luxury car and should concentrate on their very well engineered trucks. This lasted a few years, supposedly until a few Czech party big-wigs were forced to buy Soviet cars. They then put Tatra back in the big-car business, albeit without Ledwinka who had left the country. The result was the 603, built from the late '50s into the '70s. With its split rear window, little tailfins, and rear air cooled V8 it was one of the oddest luxury cars in the world, and was often chauffer driven. It was also pretty well engineered and made and some are still on the road today.

 

Photo is of a Type 77, a bit Beetle-esque but much, much larger!

[this post was last edited: 4/26/2011-00:47]

hydralique++4-26-2011-00-46-43.jpg
 
Cool,thanks for that info hydralique-sure can tell you are a bigtime gearhead LOL.
i like the 603 tatra-looks so "eastern bloc" russian ladas are the only"east bloc"
cars i have personal experience with...
Back to bugs,heard that though the original volkswagen engine was only something
like 25hp,it was designed to run at maximum power for hours-actually pretty
impressive for 1930s small car engineering!
 
Great history lesson!

Thanks for writing all that up, and the photo!! That Tetra is a gorgeous machine. Love the detail of the front windshield. I'd love to see an air cooled V-8....and more so, I'd love to hear one light up and run.

IMO, the Type 1 is probably one of the finest cars ever designed and built. It's almost impossible to appreciate what great cars they are, unless "you" have a chance to drive, or ride in one that's either 100% bone stock and original, or one that's a full blown rotisserie near concourse restoration. Pretty amazing little piece of engineering and they do not disappoint. Sadly, finding one worthy of that statement is almost impossible.
 
tatra v-8

overhead cam, and with the cams spaced far apart,the tatra v8 actually kinda
resembles the v8 in my porsche 928! outside and under each cylinder bank of
the tatra v8 are two belt-driven squirrel cage blowers to blast cooling air
over the cylinders and heads,probably has an oil cooler radiator too.
A much later(1998) tatra v8 i seen had a ducted axial fan in the center of the
"vee"to provide the blast of cooling air
 
Tatra made cars until the very late '90s, and toward the end they did some improvements and upgrades to their traditional engineering. One of them was reportedly overhead cams, but the classic air-cooled V8 with dual fans tucked under the cylinder heads isn't overhead cam, but rather a nice pushrod hemi-head design. There is one fellow here in LA who has a couple of them, his "driver" being a late '60s/early '70s 603, and the other being a rare and much older Type 87. I've seen them both running and they do have a very distinctive sound with a small V8 beat but with some typical air-cooled clattery noises. One time I accidently drove down his street, not realizing it until I spotted the 603 parked outside his house.

hydralique++4-26-2011-23-58-21.jpg
 
<span style="font-size: medium;">Here’s the tail, very cool IMO! The Tatra shares one oddity with the Lancia Flaminia Berlina; they are the only two cars I know of that combine a column shift linkage with a manual transaxle mounted at the rear of the car. The Flaminia also has a pushrod hemi engine, albeit a V6 mounted at the front.</span>

<span style="font-size: medium;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: medium;">I once asked the owner of this car how it handled if you overcooked it a little in a corner. He looked at me for a moment, then said it wasn’t easy to do but he did once take a freeway transition ramp a bit too fast in the rain, and although he didn’t lose control he admonished himself to never, ever do that again! </span>

hydralique++4-27-2011-00-06-20.jpg
 

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