rinso
Well-known member
The best sounding phone we have. Still a daily driver. Ignore the errant kitty hair on the dial. She likes to play with the phone cord.
Our Favorite Phone
- Thread starter rinso
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Here's Mine
This is a rare early Western Electric 500 model dating back to October 1950, the first year of real production, but it was still very limited due to uneven supplies of various components. How it ended up on the west coast I don't know, because Pacific Telephone was always Ma Bell's ugly stepchild and around here they were still issuing the 302 model (introduced in 1937) into the early '60s for residential subscribers.
I have the straight handset cord for this phone, but the coiled cord is my preference. It may not be evident from the picture, but the alphanumeric characters on this phone are painted on as opposed to injected into the dial plate, and so an additional protective clear plastic overlay fits on top of the dial plate.
I love the feel of the G-1 handset, particularly the heavy bakelite ones that were used on black phones into the mid-1960s, and they are so easy to cradle compared to the F-1 handsets found on 302 and earlier models. Besides the later coiled handset cord, the only other component on this phone that isn't original is the transmitter capsule, which is dated 8/51. The number card is one from 1960 that I rescued from our household phone in younger days, as a modern replacement with Area Code and numeric prefix easily peeled away to reveal the original. I've kept that number, so it has been associated with my family name since 1960.
I paid a few dollars for this phone back in the early '80s at a thrift store. It's highly desirable among collectors, and it seems to have seen very little use, based on the suede feet that still retain their original rose color.
This is a rare early Western Electric 500 model dating back to October 1950, the first year of real production, but it was still very limited due to uneven supplies of various components. How it ended up on the west coast I don't know, because Pacific Telephone was always Ma Bell's ugly stepchild and around here they were still issuing the 302 model (introduced in 1937) into the early '60s for residential subscribers.
I have the straight handset cord for this phone, but the coiled cord is my preference. It may not be evident from the picture, but the alphanumeric characters on this phone are painted on as opposed to injected into the dial plate, and so an additional protective clear plastic overlay fits on top of the dial plate.
I love the feel of the G-1 handset, particularly the heavy bakelite ones that were used on black phones into the mid-1960s, and they are so easy to cradle compared to the F-1 handsets found on 302 and earlier models. Besides the later coiled handset cord, the only other component on this phone that isn't original is the transmitter capsule, which is dated 8/51. The number card is one from 1960 that I rescued from our household phone in younger days, as a modern replacement with Area Code and numeric prefix easily peeled away to reveal the original. I've kept that number, so it has been associated with my family name since 1960.
I paid a few dollars for this phone back in the early '80s at a thrift store. It's highly desirable among collectors, and it seems to have seen very little use, based on the suede feet that still retain their original rose color.
Between my mother and I both working for the "phone company" we acquired many phones. I still have 2 dial desk models like the picture in green and black both with volume controls. White wall dial, brown Trimline dial and an orange wall Trimline touch-tone. I only have a stupid phone so cant give pictures. I still have a couple hooked up and their rings will wake the dead. But they always work in a power outage.
Ralph
we had a Western Electric 500 black phone installed in 1954 in the house we moved into that year, just like yours. Most of my family members had this model in around the same time too. Ours had the straight cord, because the coiled handset cord was an extra charge. I don’t recall many people still having the 302 models after around 1955-56, only homes that already had them installed previously. I do recall that the Canton Chinese restaurant in Petaluma still used a 302 with a straight handset cord into the early 80’s.
These old Western Electric telephones were built like tanks and had incomparable sound transmission.
I also recall that it was in 1962-63 when PT&T switched from the alpha prefix format to numerical prefix’s in the East Bay Area. In Richmond the prefix was BEacon, in El Sobrante it was CApital and in Berkeley, Albany and El Cerrito it was LAndscape. Shortly after the conversion to numerical prefix’s came Area Codes and direct Long Distance dialing. Before that you called the Long Distance operator by dialing 113, and the calls were connected by the operator. When the prefix’s changed to numerical the phone company mailed each customer stickers to update the dial center number and then again the next year they did the same thing with new stickers with the Area Code.
I recall that my Aunt Imogene had a 302 desk set that she bought a red cover for at Macy’s in downtown Richmond, with the handset cord remaining the stock black. I thought this was very swank! When they moved in 1955 they got a new WE 500, but alas, Macy’s didn’t sell the covers for the model 500, so she sprang for the extra dinero and got a green phone in the kitchen and an ivory one for her bedroom.
Also, the early 500’s had the leather covered pads on the bottom like yours, later models had rubber pads.
Eddie
[this post was last edited: 9/6/2020-18:29]
we had a Western Electric 500 black phone installed in 1954 in the house we moved into that year, just like yours. Most of my family members had this model in around the same time too. Ours had the straight cord, because the coiled handset cord was an extra charge. I don’t recall many people still having the 302 models after around 1955-56, only homes that already had them installed previously. I do recall that the Canton Chinese restaurant in Petaluma still used a 302 with a straight handset cord into the early 80’s.
These old Western Electric telephones were built like tanks and had incomparable sound transmission.
I also recall that it was in 1962-63 when PT&T switched from the alpha prefix format to numerical prefix’s in the East Bay Area. In Richmond the prefix was BEacon, in El Sobrante it was CApital and in Berkeley, Albany and El Cerrito it was LAndscape. Shortly after the conversion to numerical prefix’s came Area Codes and direct Long Distance dialing. Before that you called the Long Distance operator by dialing 113, and the calls were connected by the operator. When the prefix’s changed to numerical the phone company mailed each customer stickers to update the dial center number and then again the next year they did the same thing with new stickers with the Area Code.
I recall that my Aunt Imogene had a 302 desk set that she bought a red cover for at Macy’s in downtown Richmond, with the handset cord remaining the stock black. I thought this was very swank! When they moved in 1955 they got a new WE 500, but alas, Macy’s didn’t sell the covers for the model 500, so she sprang for the extra dinero and got a green phone in the kitchen and an ivory one for her bedroom.
Also, the early 500’s had the leather covered pads on the bottom like yours, later models had rubber pads.
Eddie
[this post was last edited: 9/6/2020-18:29]
Phone Collection
I have (had) quite a collection of phones as it was always one of my "life goals" to have a phone in every room of the house (except the bathrooms!).
I have donated a few since I no longer use land line phones except in case cell service is down.
I, so far, have donated a brown slimline wall phone, a blue slimline desk phone and an AT&T "Touch-a-Matic 1600" phone.
I still have my AT&T "phone in a wooden box" (lid lifts revealing the phone), "Genie" phone, GTE "Linear" phone and an AT&T desk phone that has changeable face plates (mine has a chrome one with my initials engraved on it.[this post was last edited: 9/6/2020-16:42]
I have (had) quite a collection of phones as it was always one of my "life goals" to have a phone in every room of the house (except the bathrooms!).
I have donated a few since I no longer use land line phones except in case cell service is down.
I, so far, have donated a brown slimline wall phone, a blue slimline desk phone and an AT&T "Touch-a-Matic 1600" phone.
I still have my AT&T "phone in a wooden box" (lid lifts revealing the phone), "Genie" phone, GTE "Linear" phone and an AT&T desk phone that has changeable face plates (mine has a chrome one with my initials engraved on it.[this post was last edited: 9/6/2020-16:42]
rinso
Well-known member
It might be my imagination, but it always seemed to me that GTE and especially Stromberg-Carlson phone dials were faster than Western Electric phones. Maybe Western Electric phones had dials that were 10 PPS, (pulses per second) and the others were more like 12 PPS. Does anyone know the facts about this? Thanks.
I always found the Automatic Electric and Stromberg Carlson telephone dials to behave just plain weirdly compared to the WECo dials I grew up with. I also thought the finger wheel stops down at nearly the 6:00 position just didn't look right, but can't say I noticed a speed difference. For sure the mechanisms were very different from WECo dials, so that may have something to do with it. WECo dials could slow down over time, although I've never had one do that to me. I think the AE/SC dials could have been more consistent.
I'm a die-hard WECo guy. Other than a bottom-dial Ericophone that proved so flimsy that I tossed it, my collection is all WECo from 1931 vintage to 1954.
Eddie, my sister had a LAndscape number in Berkeley when she lived on Sutter St. When I worked in the Oakland Pacific Bell office for about a year before transitioning to management, they still had boards on the walls with colored lights indicating the various east bay exchanges like LAndscape, THornwall, and NEptune, among others I can't recall. I don't know what they were used for, but they were clearly leftovers from a time before the call centers were handling customers from outside their immediate area.
The first house we lived in down this way was served by the AXminster exchange. When we moved in 1960, we landed in the CYpress exchange. Your account of the stick-on number labels with Area Code and numeric prefix is similar to mine. I can still remember the night my dad stuck them onto our main hallway phone and the extension phone he had bootlegged in the master bedroom. I'm really glad they used adhesive that didn't wreck the original card underneath those thinner labels.
Here's a link to an excellent source of information on all things rotary telephone. I'm fairly certain I've seen some discussions about PPS there.
I'm a die-hard WECo guy. Other than a bottom-dial Ericophone that proved so flimsy that I tossed it, my collection is all WECo from 1931 vintage to 1954.
Eddie, my sister had a LAndscape number in Berkeley when she lived on Sutter St. When I worked in the Oakland Pacific Bell office for about a year before transitioning to management, they still had boards on the walls with colored lights indicating the various east bay exchanges like LAndscape, THornwall, and NEptune, among others I can't recall. I don't know what they were used for, but they were clearly leftovers from a time before the call centers were handling customers from outside their immediate area.
The first house we lived in down this way was served by the AXminster exchange. When we moved in 1960, we landed in the CYpress exchange. Your account of the stick-on number labels with Area Code and numeric prefix is similar to mine. I can still remember the night my dad stuck them onto our main hallway phone and the extension phone he had bootlegged in the master bedroom. I'm really glad they used adhesive that didn't wreck the original card underneath those thinner labels.
Here's a link to an excellent source of information on all things rotary telephone. I'm fairly certain I've seen some discussions about PPS there.
justjunque
Well-known member
Nice!
I went on a vintage WE phone kick for a while.
We have two working 500s. A red, hardwired 554 wall phone in the basement; that one came with the house. A 2554 touch-tone wall phone in the kitchen; also came with the house.
And, several others stored away, so I can change them out, if/when desired.
The oldest one I have is a black 500 that belonged to my grandmother. All of the internals are dated 1954. It has the heavier handset. That one, from sitting unused for many years, as well as improper storage conditions, is desperately in need of a restoration. I've found a guy online who does beautiful work, and he's more than willing to do it. I've just never gotten up the nerve to ship it to him. I'm convinced that the post office or UPS will destroy it in shipping, after it's survived all these years.
Barry
I went on a vintage WE phone kick for a while.
We have two working 500s. A red, hardwired 554 wall phone in the basement; that one came with the house. A 2554 touch-tone wall phone in the kitchen; also came with the house.
And, several others stored away, so I can change them out, if/when desired.
The oldest one I have is a black 500 that belonged to my grandmother. All of the internals are dated 1954. It has the heavier handset. That one, from sitting unused for many years, as well as improper storage conditions, is desperately in need of a restoration. I've found a guy online who does beautiful work, and he's more than willing to do it. I've just never gotten up the nerve to ship it to him. I'm convinced that the post office or UPS will destroy it in shipping, after it's survived all these years.
Barry
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
#1
HEY! WE were Cypress! ... Which makes me wonder: Was there any uniformity in exchange names? Was every 29x exchange called 'Cypress-x' xxxx?
But by the time we moved into our 1960's suburban 'development' letters/names had been dropped. Hard-wired connections were as well. We had those ultramodern 4-prong jacks!!!
My parents kept their rotary kitchen phone for years... and years. My brother-in-law used to joke that our kids were probably the only ones of all their friends to have ever used a rotary phone.
Useless fun phone facts:
The amplifiers of Trimline phones sucked. On paper they had the same 20dB amplification as the separate handsets, but every person I ever met who depended on an amplifier disagreed. Ditto for magnetic signal strength so if you needed to use the t-coil on your hearing aid, you were SOL. Stand alone handsets for desk/wall phones were much better on both counts.
Even more useless: Everyone I talked to in Europe said the exact same thing: "TELIA RULES!" I've no idea if it was the strength of the magnetic field or its orientation in the earpiece (thereby affecting field strength in uso).
HEY! WE were Cypress! ... Which makes me wonder: Was there any uniformity in exchange names? Was every 29x exchange called 'Cypress-x' xxxx?
But by the time we moved into our 1960's suburban 'development' letters/names had been dropped. Hard-wired connections were as well. We had those ultramodern 4-prong jacks!!!
My parents kept their rotary kitchen phone for years... and years. My brother-in-law used to joke that our kids were probably the only ones of all their friends to have ever used a rotary phone.
Useless fun phone facts:
The amplifiers of Trimline phones sucked. On paper they had the same 20dB amplification as the separate handsets, but every person I ever met who depended on an amplifier disagreed. Ditto for magnetic signal strength so if you needed to use the t-coil on your hearing aid, you were SOL. Stand alone handsets for desk/wall phones were much better on both counts.
Even more useless: Everyone I talked to in Europe said the exact same thing: "TELIA RULES!" I've no idea if it was the strength of the magnetic field or its orientation in the earpiece (thereby affecting field strength in uso).
Had an interesting time 20 or so years ago visiting the Telephone Museum in Stockholm, Sweden. At the time, Ericsson was Sweden's AT&T/Western Electric. They actually had similar teledensity to the US through the years. The European model of PTT (nationalized Post, Telephone, Telegraph) was quite different than the North American model of an atomized, private enterprise telephone business...and you can see it in how we've evolved even into the cellular/mobile age. Having worked in the phone business around the world--it was a great ride for me!!
Kitchen phone
Is a 1920’s Western Electric 553A I picked up online in IA many years ago. It’s very original and still works great. Ironically no component is date stamped. Which was the norm for W.E. Not sure when they started that. Has such a pleasing ring to it straight out of a General store.
Is a 1920’s Western Electric 553A I picked up online in IA many years ago. It’s very original and still works great. Ironically no component is date stamped. Which was the norm for W.E. Not sure when they started that. Has such a pleasing ring to it straight out of a General store.
John, I have always liked those "apartment" phones. That's the only pre-handset type of phone I'd ever have.
The dates on older WECo equipment used Roman numerals. Example: IV 31 would indicate 4th quarter of 1931. Once WECo started using Arabic numerals for day, month and year, Roman numerals would sometimes be used to additionally indicate the shift during which the component was manufactured, such as 10-15-61 III.
Jim, exchange names were used by AT&T nationwide, so for sure CYpress existed (and still does behind the modern numeric designations) in many communities across the country. As witnessed by the grand total of two phone numbers that my family had (including the one serving my current home), a number beginning with 29 could exist in more than one switching office. Our first number that began with AXminster-6 (aka 296) was served from one office, while our second number CYpress-5 (295) was served from another.
Believe it or not, the AXminster office still exists in-house at AT&T as "SJAX." The CYpress number originates out of "SJMN," the "MN" denoting the "Main" office in the big windowless building downtown. SJAX also contains the old CHerry exchange, along with many newer prefixes assigned long after alpha-numeric was phased out. Some of the other local office names still in use are ALpine, ANdrews, BAldwin, and CLayburn. This is the case all across the original Pacific Telephone territory, as I learned from working in the Pacific Bell business office for several years. After having spent 17 years working in craft as well as management positions for PB/SBC/AT&T, I can tell you that among the telcos old habits die hard, or as with exchange names, continue to live on long after having been phased out for practical purposes in the mid 20th century.
Independent telcos had their own exchange names that were separate from AT&T's. I found an old manual (no dial) WECo model D1 phone in Tucson several years ago that has a GIbraltar number card. I'd never heard of that exchange, and noticed that its handset was an F1W type rather than a plain F1, which is otherwise identical in every way. The W indicates the phone was manufactured for an independent telco that had no hardware manufacturing facility of its own, so I presume that's where GIbraltar comes into play.
I've provided a link for more about exchange names, and have attached a couple of pictures for you and John. I researched the GIbraltar exchange not long after I got that phone and found that it exists/existed in a rural area of Arizona, so that seemed to confirm my suspicions. John, if you look closely at the inside cover of the subset (ringer box like your 553 uses) you'll see the Roman numeral I indicating the month and 32 indicating the year.
In addition to the link below, here's one for the same site that provides names according to the first two digits (interesting that CLayburn is missing from the "25" list, and YOrkshire is not on the "96" list so I suspect there are quite a *cough* number of discrepancies):
[this post was last edited: 9/13/2020-19:27]
The dates on older WECo equipment used Roman numerals. Example: IV 31 would indicate 4th quarter of 1931. Once WECo started using Arabic numerals for day, month and year, Roman numerals would sometimes be used to additionally indicate the shift during which the component was manufactured, such as 10-15-61 III.
Jim, exchange names were used by AT&T nationwide, so for sure CYpress existed (and still does behind the modern numeric designations) in many communities across the country. As witnessed by the grand total of two phone numbers that my family had (including the one serving my current home), a number beginning with 29 could exist in more than one switching office. Our first number that began with AXminster-6 (aka 296) was served from one office, while our second number CYpress-5 (295) was served from another.
Believe it or not, the AXminster office still exists in-house at AT&T as "SJAX." The CYpress number originates out of "SJMN," the "MN" denoting the "Main" office in the big windowless building downtown. SJAX also contains the old CHerry exchange, along with many newer prefixes assigned long after alpha-numeric was phased out. Some of the other local office names still in use are ALpine, ANdrews, BAldwin, and CLayburn. This is the case all across the original Pacific Telephone territory, as I learned from working in the Pacific Bell business office for several years. After having spent 17 years working in craft as well as management positions for PB/SBC/AT&T, I can tell you that among the telcos old habits die hard, or as with exchange names, continue to live on long after having been phased out for practical purposes in the mid 20th century.
Independent telcos had their own exchange names that were separate from AT&T's. I found an old manual (no dial) WECo model D1 phone in Tucson several years ago that has a GIbraltar number card. I'd never heard of that exchange, and noticed that its handset was an F1W type rather than a plain F1, which is otherwise identical in every way. The W indicates the phone was manufactured for an independent telco that had no hardware manufacturing facility of its own, so I presume that's where GIbraltar comes into play.
I've provided a link for more about exchange names, and have attached a couple of pictures for you and John. I researched the GIbraltar exchange not long after I got that phone and found that it exists/existed in a rural area of Arizona, so that seemed to confirm my suspicions. John, if you look closely at the inside cover of the subset (ringer box like your 553 uses) you'll see the Roman numeral I indicating the month and 32 indicating the year.
In addition to the link below, here's one for the same site that provides names according to the first two digits (interesting that CLayburn is missing from the "25" list, and YOrkshire is not on the "96" list so I suspect there are quite a *cough* number of discrepancies):
[this post was last edited: 9/13/2020-19:27]
Were the Phones rented?
I can still remember the avocado green rotary wall phone we rented from Ma Bell in our kitchen it was installed shortly before the home’s completion in June 1968. It was rented for 20 years.
I can still remember the avocado green rotary wall phone we rented from Ma Bell in our kitchen it was installed shortly before the home’s completion in June 1968. It was rented for 20 years.
Yes, phones in the earlier years were the property of your phone company and a fee was charged. I believe when the breakup of the Bells, you could then buy and use your own phone.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Yes, but if you did nothing, you continued as before. Many people missed that memo and continued 'renting' their phones for years afterward.
Thanks for the information about exchange names--growing up in St. Louis, we (TAylor 1 and TAylor 2) were in Kirkwood, MO along with WOodland 5 and WOodland 6. WO2 and WO8 were in the adjoining exchange, Webster Groves. There was a distinction in local toll rating, as WO5/WO6 had different EAS than WO2/WO8. On the cellular side where I spent my time in the phone company, we had similar "legacy" RSA and MSA market names--which were somewhat at random and sometimes just coincided to the location of our business office. One MSA name didn't even include the city name--the "Alton" metropolitan service area was just outside Alton (Jersey County)...it was the smallest MSA in the US (only 10k POPs...it actually had no business being an MSA and went bankrupt right after it's 5 year buildout passed). My company ended up with it--the financing was provided by the switch vendor (Nortel) and we used the same infrastructure. We literally had to start the market from scratch---
vacerator
Well-known member
Jaime L,
WO meant Woodward central switching office. LI was Lincoln, or the 38 exchange in Allen, Lincoln Park, Melvindale. AV was avenue for Wyandotte, Riverview, and Southgate. Centerline/Warren had one for 268, which in the old days with AT&T Ma Bell gave customers in it the widest local calling area of all metro Detroit. The rest of Warren and area code 586 here has 939, 977, 247. Mount Clemens has 446. Roseville had one, 293. The Shores area along Jefferson had 771 through 773. The Grosse Pointe's had 883,4,5. Detroit proper had several. I recall 96 was the lower east side from first grade, and southwest Detroit had 554 as one exchange.
WO meant Woodward central switching office. LI was Lincoln, or the 38 exchange in Allen, Lincoln Park, Melvindale. AV was avenue for Wyandotte, Riverview, and Southgate. Centerline/Warren had one for 268, which in the old days with AT&T Ma Bell gave customers in it the widest local calling area of all metro Detroit. The rest of Warren and area code 586 here has 939, 977, 247. Mount Clemens has 446. Roseville had one, 293. The Shores area along Jefferson had 771 through 773. The Grosse Pointe's had 883,4,5. Detroit proper had several. I recall 96 was the lower east side from first grade, and southwest Detroit had 554 as one exchange.
Ferndale historical museum has old phone books (ROYAL Oak Historical Museum has the Royal Oak Tribune bound). I'm be very interested to figure out where the boundaries were back in the day. Pleasant Ridge supposedly was the teledensest community in the country back in the day...President of MI Bell lived in the area.
The area I live in was served by General Telephone (later Verizon, now Frontier), and the prefix was SUnset 3, or 783. Originally all but one of the other exchanges in our local calling area had an 8 as the second digit of the prefix - 289, 382, 685. In the late 90's our calling area expanded to include several hundred prefixes in the Cincinnati Bell service area.
