P&G Discontinues Powder Products in Latin America

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support AutomaticWasher.org:

liamy1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
769
Location
-
Came across this video on YT.

It mentions that P&G discontinued production of powder detergents for Ariel and Ace.

Hopefully, it will be many, many years (if ever) that this happens in the UK. With powder being our biggest seller, can't see it; not until the next generation or so anyway - as children of today (and their children) will be increasingly brought up using liquid detergents - as mentioned in the Powder vs Liquid thread by Michael.

Wonder if the US could see this in the not so distant future though?

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GasGVcMXZMA
 
As much as I hate to think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if powders didn't vanish from the US market sooner rather than later. I have noted that the powder detergent selection has gotten worse and worse over the years. At one store where I regularly shop, there is a long line of liquids, and only a small selection of powder detergents in one corner of the detergent department.

I hate to admit it, but I've gotten to a point of buying mostly liquids. I think it's been a year since I last bought a powder detergent. I'd prefer using powder detergent, but the choices are so limited now. Plus I need to be careful with money, and the liquids end up being where the good deals are to be found.
 
If powder products get discontinued,how would people wash their whites?Do liquid detergents in America contain oxygen bleach or they are using a separate bleach product?I can't imagine washing all my clothes with liquid.I wouldn't feel my whites and underwear any clean at all.
 
Liquid detergents

GR_Washer.

No detergents anywhere in the World contain oxygen bleach as far as I know. It's down to the manufacturing process, they can't keep oxygen bleach stable in a liquid formulation.

In America, it is still common practice to use Liquid Chlorine Bleach in white washes.

If powder was ever lost (which I don't see for a long time in Western Europe), then you would have to use either chlorine bleach or a product like vanish etc.

If liquid detergents ever reach a stage when they contain oxygen bleach, then I think this would be when we could start to seriously see powders demise.
 
Vanish..

I have often wondered that GR_Washer. It just seems for whatever reason, there is NO liquid detergent worldwide that has oxygen bleach in it - even the "Bleach Alternative" liquid detergents like Tide etc don't seem to list oxygen bleach in their ingredients.

Another weird one, the newish Persil "dual action capsules" that we have here in the UK (containing a liquid and a powder stain remover in one), is advertised as working on "bleachable" stains. But STILL does not contain any oxygen bleaching agents.

Link below

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjha53pis2I
 
See reply above: Sun Expert Gel with oxygen pearls.

As for the Persil Pods... I don't know *wtf* is wrong with Henkel but to sell a Universal detergent without bleach in it - for the money they are asking - is just wrong.
 
German Persil is comppletely different to UK's Persil,but both brands produce dual caps with liquid and powder.Don't they contain any oxygen bleach,even in the powder section?
 
Don't they contain any oxygen bleach,even in the powder

Nope, nada bleach at all.

The non bio ones make me laugh, no enzymes and no bleach, so how are they are a stain remover product?

Yes as mentioned on the other thread, the non bio ones will have a high surfactant count, but that's it.

I have used both versions of the dual action capsules (bio and non bio), and they both smell nice and seem to clean ok. Haven't used them continuously enough (I don't with any detergent to be fair) to see if they would produce dingy whites.

I still like a good solid powder for whites.
 
I've seen that in Spain there is a liquid detergent that contains Vanish stain removing agents(agentes quitamanchas) and I was wondering if it contains any oxygen bleach in its composition.I think it is produced by Reckitt Benckiser. Is there anyone who has travelled to Spain and tried it?

P.S. I wonder who thought that this funny,reminiscent of bowel, brand name is an appropriate name for a detergent...

grwasher_expert-2016101318141707596_1.jpg
 
haha

What an odd name for a detergent. Never been to Spain, so never tried it.

Could be total guff, but I read somewhere years ago that the reason the OMO brand would not work as a name these days, is because it sounds like "homo". Really don't know if that is true (and it's prejudice too).

But then, OMO is still a very much well known name worldwide. In some countries it is the genericized term for detergent.
 
So...

Even that doesn't contain Oxygen Bleach?

If I remember rightly, the reason why Oxygen Bleach is not in liquid detergents, is because how Oxygen Bleach works.

When powder oxygen bleach mixes with a liquid (water) - it releases Oxygen (this is what helps with lifting stains from fabrics), and the reaction only lasts for a short time.

Of course, a liquid detergent is already a liquid, so if Oxygen Bleach was added at manufacture, it would be useless by the time the consumer got it - as the reaction would have occurred, oxygen released, then gone.

In a powder, the oxygen bleach is encapsulated in the granules and the reaction only happens when introduced to water - this is why you will notice washing powder makes a slight "fizzing" sound when you put it in water when hand washing.

There seems to be no way of keeping oxygen bleach "unused" until needed in a liquid.

As logixx said, in the Dishwasher detergent it seems to be encapsulated.

It also makes me think, is this the same for Vanish?

But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be a detergent with Oxygen Bleach in it. Even the Colon with Vanish that you linked GR_Washer.
 
Looking at....

Our UK version of Vanish Liquid, in the ingredients, it says that it contains Oxygen Bleach, but interestingly does NOT contain any enzymes.

All powdered Vanish I have ever bought contains both Oxygen Bleach and enzymes, so it's perhaps the interaction of liquid oxy bleach and enzymes?

But then again, UK non bio liquids that don't have enzymes, also don't have oxygen bleach *whereas the powder non bios do.

I really don't know.

http://https//www.amazon.co.uk/Vani...00820Y8I0/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
 
Powders contain sodium percarbonate - this is stable compound. Liquids usually contain hydrogen peroxide - quite unstable, that's why you have to buy them fresh and not older then 6 months. Powders are much stable when kept dry.

Sodium percarbonate releases hydrogen peroxide. H2O2 is not effective bleach itself especially in temperatures below 60°. That's why powders contain activator (TAED in Europe, NOBS in USA and Asia). When activator is TAED, the actual bleaching agent is peracetic acid. When activator is NOBS, the actual bleaching agent peroxynonanoic acid. Both are quite good bleaches at any temperature.

It's not possible to use hydrogen peroxide and enzymes in the same liquid formula.

Interestingly, in my part of Europe Henkel's Pesil power mix caps used to contain 15-30% oxygen bleach in the powder chamber, but in the batches from this yeas the oxygen bleach was removed.
 
Doesn`t surprise me at all there`s no bleach in those powder-liquid caps.
Just imagine what it`d do to your clothes when used in the "wrong" washer.
I think spot bleaching is the technical term.
My first own washer, a cr**y 1980`s Indesit just tumbled six times (IIRC) while filling with cold water then sat static for a long time until the water reached 40°C.
 
Vanish liquid or gel contains hydrogen peroxide but no enzymes.It is smooth liquid,it doesn't contain any granules.So I suppose that the same formula could be used to make a liquid detergent with bleach.But I don't know what would happen if enzymes and oxygen were present in the same solution
 
So a liquid can contain EITHER enzymes OR bleach(peroxide) but NEVER both.A bio liquid is always bleachless while a liquid with bleach must always be non-bio.The only way to combine them in a single product would be a capsule with 2 separate chambers,the first with regular bio liquid and the second one with a hydrogen peroxide bleach.Once the capsule disolves,the 2 components would be simultaneously activated during the wash
 
So a liquid can contain EITHER enzymes OR bleach(peroxide) b

That would make sense, only thing though is I wonder why our Non Bio Liquid detergents don't contain Bleach then (Fairy, Persil etc).

Only thing I can think of, is if the liquids had bleach as well as the powder, there would essentially be no bleach free non bio detergent, so people who wouldn't use anything but a non bio wouldn't have a "colour care" option. Plus it would go against the grain of all liquids being bleach free - and not many people know, or care what ingredients are in their detergent so they wouldn't check.
 
As you say,non-bio liquids are meant to be used with coloreds,so they don't add bleach.As soon as we have powders,there is no reason for the companies to struggle to come up with a liquid detergent with bleach.Just use powder with whites and that's it.But in markets where companies are stupidly abolishing powders such as latin America,they have to find a way to integrate bleach in liquids,otherwise people should always either boil wash their whites or use Vanish every time washing whites in order to compensate for the absence of bleach and get them as clean as if they were washed with powder.
 
Non-Bio is available only in UK. Why bother changing the formula for one market only?
Plus, I told you that liquids with H2O2 are very unstable - 6 months after manufacturing and you have nothing but additional water in the bottle. Plus I told you that H2O2 is ineffective bleach. Even they add H2O2 in non-bio liquid, it will never be as effective as powder. Yes, sodium percarbonate in the powders releases H2O2, but the activator in the formula leads to peroxy acids which are the actual bleaching agent. No activator can be added in liquid formula.
 
Non-Bio is available only in UK. Why bother changing the for

That as the case may be, but non bio happens to be a massive seller over here (our leading brand of detergent sells not far off 2x the amount non bio as it does it's bio). And of course, my wants will focus around UK brands, not other markets.

You also said that the reason H2O2 was not in use in liquids was becasue of the the denature of enzymes, something a non bio does not possess.

GR_Washer - the truth is, detergent manufacturers won't care if it is the best solution for whites; as long as you buy their detergent, they're happy. And as liquid detergent is cheaper to produce, they're even happier. It also opens up the need for "laundry booster" products - another revenue stream.
 
Yes, but I also said that the formula will be unstable, with very short shelf life - not related with the enzymes. If there was a way, they would add bleach in the liquids long time ago.
 
"Sodium percarbonate releases hydrogen peroxide. H2O2 is not effective bleach itself especially in temperatures below 60°."

Not entirely correct. Methinks you are confusing sodium perborate and sodium percarbonate. Both release oxygen (hydrogen peroxide) in water, but have different qualities.

Long the staple of "boil wash" bleaching (the original Persil was Sodium PERborate and SILicate along with soap)sodium perborate which is made from treating borax with peroxide will only effectively bleach at elevated temperatures (>60c/140F). Lower temperatures require vastly longer contact time.

OTOH sodium percarbonate (made from treating washing soda with hydrogen peroxide)will begin effectively bleaching in warm or even cold water. In the laundry world sodium percarbonate is known as the "cold water bleach" for this reason.

OTOH sodium perborate without activators was and still is sold as a "color safe" bleach. This is because one is likely not to launder colours at tempertures elevated enough to cause the perborate to bleach effectively. P&G also added small amounts of sodium perborate to Cheer powder detergent as its "ColorGuard" formula. This is because oxygen bleach and chlorine bleach to an extent cancel each other out. Most tap water in the USA is chlorinated....

To get around the elevated temperature requirements for sodium perborate bleach activators (TAED in Europe, NBOS in USA) were invented. In water these chemicals react with hydrogen peroxide to create peracetic acid, a powerful bleaching and disinfecting agent. So much so it is used to sterilize beer and ale bottles before use.

The creation of bleach activators came along during the energy crisis of the 1970's when in both Europe and the USA the population was urged to save energy. By Ariel, Persil and other TOL European detergents promised the same boil wash results even when "turning down the dial". You've heard the adverts; "when the stain says hot, but the label says not..". Well those were pushing the supposed ability of these new "activated bleach" detergents to clean even at lower temps.

Due to cost and stability issues sodium percarbonate was rarely used in laundry detergents, pre-soaks, oxygen bleaches.... However the EU has recently put borates in their crosshairs as dangerous to the environment, so sodium perborate is out, and sodium percarbonate is in. In either case Persil, Ariel, and the rest still often include TAED (bleach activator) even though it may not be needed.

In Europe the patents on TAED long ago expired which is why P&G, Unilever, Henkel and others all can use that chemical. On this side of the pond NBOS has been held under tight control by P&G, which is why you only find activated bleaching systems in their laundry detergents, bleaches, and automatic dishwasher powders.

P&G first introduced activated bleaching with BIZ, it then went onto Oxydol, then finally Tide with Bleach. Today you can find P&G's activated bleaching system in many Tide, Gain, and other laundry detergent/bleaching products as well as Cascade dishwasher powder. You can tell where it is by looking at the patent numbers listed on packet.

P&G over the years keeps tweaking their activated bleaching system and filing new patents. Thus NBOS has never come out of protection so anyone else can get at it, and P&G does not license the rights. When P&G sold off Oxydol and Biz they did not give the rights to the activated bleaching system, so both products are not the same as before.
 
Back
Top