Partly cloudy in Chicago

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paulg

paulg

Well-known member
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Apr 26, 2006
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My sweet home... Chicago
Need help from the experts.
About two years ago we replaced our 2005 Kitchenaid dishwasher with a new Miele. We love the new Miele. It is extremely quiet and gets dishes far cleaner than the old Kitchenaid. The dishwasher detergent we have used since day one is Mieletabs. Very rarely we use the “old jug” of Cascade or some Finish tablets we have left over. 99% of the time we use Mieletabs. We do not add salt to the hopper as Miele instructs for some environments. Our water quality did not require it IIRC.
Some glassware has been coming out cloudy, yet some comes out crystal clear.
When we first had the dishwasher installed, the dishwasher needed to be programmed according to the water hardness in the area. I actually called the city’s water expert and we came up with the correct setting. (I am actually in a suburb just outside of Chicago).
So why do I get the results as shown? Some cloudy, some not?
Any info or comment welcome.

paulg-2020051209423404307_1.jpg
 
there can be times of no rhyme or reason why glasses/dishes become cloudy...many factors to consider....

been there myself, just one of those odd things that turned up, and then disappeared...

but to fix your cloudy situation currently is to pick up some Lemon Shine...and run a few loads with it....your glasses should clear right up...

yogitunes-2020051210161308989_1.jpg
 
I second

the LemiShine (or even unsweetened Lemonade)

I notice Lemishine says "deteregent booster" so I guess now it can wtih used "with detergent?" Used to, I thought it was to be used separate.

I will admit it's strange that you have 2 really cloudy glasses and 2 clear ones.
 
I have a Miele but have never implemented the water softener feature either.  It sounded way too complicated, and I've never bothered to find out if it's easier done than said.  Water here is fairly hard, but my glassware has remained clear.  I've gotten into the habit of adding maybe a teaspoon of LemiShine to the main wash detergent cup because I'm using tabs of Finish "power ball" or whatever -- the ones with the red M&M.  It doesn't do as good a job as Cascade IMO.  I'm almost done with the Finish tabs and may not have to add LemiShine once I start my new tub of Cascade tabs.

 

Also, it's been stated here many times that pre-rinsing can cause etching on glassware.  Since I don't generate enough to run the machine every day, I use the rinse & hold cycle to keep odors down.  When I know I'll be running the dishwasher after making a meal or doing some baking, I don't pre-rinse anything.  So far, that routine has worked to keep glassware clear and sparkling.
 
Thanks for the tips! More info.

Thank you all for the useful tips. I will heed your info!
Let me see if I can still read my notes from the days of installation.
Our water:
ALK. PH 7.3-7.4. (Considered neutral on the 0-14 scale)
Hardness: Well
Rust = 11.0
Chicago CCR report sodium = 8.49 - 8.92
Sulf: 25.0 - 25.7 PPM
Softness of water = 145 - 150 (very soft)
These notes are two years old and were scribbled while speaking on the phone. If you can make any sense of this - thank you. I do remember that the water expert stated that Chicago water was generally soft-enough and salt was not likely needed.
I did call Miele Technical Support during installation and have to admit, they were extremely knowledgable. However, two years into service I would prefer to get your spin on this phenomenon. Thanks for the suggestions thus far.
Regarding the two “candlewick” type glasses with different clouding. I wonder if they are two different manufacturers in the same style? Or different ages? However we got them in one big lot. Dunno.
Again, thanks for the additive tips. I will order some Lemi-Shine for sure
 
Pre-rinsing

Regarding pre-rinsing:
I profess that (I believe) one should not pre-rinse as the detergent needs the substances on the dishes to chemically do its job. So I am told.
However, Hubby INSISTS that every dish be pre-rinsed. I have to admit that the dishes going into the dishwasher are rarely cruddy.
Perhaps we are chemically doing a dis-service by pre-rinsing and thus are inducing this trouble ourselves.
 
Another possibility: Could it be etching rather than just cloudiness? The manual for one of my many dishwashers said that etching (which is permanent) can occur with certain kinds of glass if cycles are long and the water is soft. I've always had mechanically softened water, which is super-soft.  Most glassware I've had has eventually gone cloudy and I've just replaced the glasses. It usually starts around the top couple of inches of the glasses, then spreads downward over time.

 

Am interested to find out if you have luck getting rid of the cloudiness.  I have some heavy restaurant glasses used for iced tea that are gradually going cloudy (or becoming etched).  I have six of them and try to use the same 2 or 3 all the time.  The ones that rarely get used feel much smoother than the etched ones.

 

Edit: Apologies, Alexander; I was interrupted by a phone call and didn't hit send until a couple of minutes after you'd already posted about etching.
 
A lot of the time

Its down to the glass and hoe soft it is !

Have some pint glasses from when I had the pub and that was over 12 years ago and the glasses have been through the glass washer and now my Miele dishwasher I have no idea how many times but they are still perfectly clear, Some other glasses we bought from a supermarket have dulled like yours, Have always used salt in the water softener its set to medium I believe as I had to turn it down slightly also use finish or Fairy/Cascade pods though the pods tend to foam but I like the smell in the dishwasher when its finished :) the door pops one and you smell lemony freshness I am going to try the finish lemon ones see what they are like !! but back to the glass etching its more likely down to the glass not your DW.
 
The only other thing I can think of is temperature, We have Riedel Highballs and tumblers that are commercial grade and go through the dishwasher even at 170deg without issues.

Our Riedel stemware however is far more senstive to temperature and will etch quite quickly if washed too hot. We keep a few for every day use that go through at 140F and just accept that they are cloudy. The rest I wash on the delicate cycle when we have a party which limits the temp to around 110F.

What cycle are you using daily, does your manual show the temperature. Every day glasses should be kept under 140F, Crystal or delicate glassware should be kept under 120F.

If your prewashing and using powder, have you tried reducing the amount. If you already have soft water, I dont think adding lemishine will help. The other option is to fill the salt resivoir, set the water hardness and let the dishwasher handle things itself.
 
If you do use Lemi Shine, a word of warning- Don't follow the instructions. It will tell you to fill your dispenser with the stuff- that is WAYYY too much. Need maybe a teaspoon per load, maybe less. I just do a small sprinkle in the closed dispenser, with the detergent pod. Be warned it is a weak acid, and will cause wear to dishes and dishwasher racks if you use too much! It can be very effective though.
 
I have a water softener and some of the glasses and bowls we use are cloudy.  Hold them up to the light just right and I can see streaks formed...they are etched.  I once saw some black Arcopal  dishes that were etched like that, but my Corelle does not etch.  My pyrex measuring cups eventually will etch too.  My mother's have done the same thing without a water softener...but I think it took longer with their water than it did for my softened water.  I just replace the glasses when they get too bad...or use plastic.
 
It Looks Like Etching

Your Husband causes this by pre-rinsing, I would use the water softener feature, and then use very little detergent, and then you no longer have to use expensive detergent tablets.

 

And stop pre-rinsing, I have seen this issue cause some of the more serious disagreements in a relationship.

 

John L.
 

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