Permanent Press Cooldown That Fills While Agitating

[Chetlaham]

I can say I've never seen a washer do this before on video or in person. At 13:22 the washer begins to agitate while filling. Is this normal? Why did Kenmore do this? Is this why the top portion of the agitator does not have fins so the clothes aren't damaged? Thoughts?

 

[wayupnorth]

Yes, my old Kenmore did agitate on slow when filling with cold on PP cooldown. Mine had a Super Roto Swirl and all the fins were down at the bottom. My mother's Kenmore had a straight vain agitator with no side fins either. My present Maytag 511 has fins only on the base too.

 

[DADoES]

 
It's a Kenmore variation, Whirlpool never did it AFAIK.  Some Kenmore models with Vari-Flex and RotoFlex agitators also did it.  I don't think the agitator is a direct factor.  Upper fins when present are much smaller than the base so aren't a significant factor on fabric abrasion.

 

[Chetlaham]

Interesting. Did Kenmore ever give an explanation for agitating while filling? I can't imagine any benefit. Though it is fun to pretend the washer is doing a timed fill

 

[bigalsf]

It's a timing issue based on the water pressure and the cams in the timer (it does this on both WP & KM models). The change was made in the early 60's to give better performance with the process. The timer is still running when it first starts to fill. If it fills before the timer increment is up it will start agitating. If it doesn't it will start agitating while filling until the pressure switch is satisfied. This sequence was done purposely (it's reviewed in the service manuals for belt drive models from the mid-60's forward).n. I'll try to find the info & post it.

 

[bigalsf]

Sorry, I stated that backwards! It starts to fill and agitate first and then stops if the pressure switch is not satisfied until it is, and then starts agitating again.

Oops!

 

[barcoboy]

This timer in the video is very inter

esting as between the 1st and 2nd increments as well as the 3rd and 4th increments of the cool down period, if the pressure switch is not satisfied, the timer only turns through part of its rotation before the motor stops and the fill continues. Once the pressure switch is satisfied, the fill valve shuts off, the motor restarts, and the timer completes its rotation.

Love this washing machine as it was nearly the machine that I grew up with, with the only difference being the water temperature selector had the standard five selections (H-W,H-C,W-W,W-C,C-C) instead of how the selector is on this machine. I like the very audible click a few seconds before the timer intervals change, and interesting how the fourth spray rinse is a bit shorter than the previous three.

I think the machine in the video needs some support under its legs! Not very good for keeping the load in balance.

 

[appnut]

The instructions specified to always use full water level for most effective process. (but you know I din't do that) The few times whreby a PP load was smaller than full and I adjusted the water level to correlate to appropriate load size, if pressure switch was fulfilled before that initial "fill" increment advanced, the machine would begin draining again until the timer advanced. At which time, agitation began again for the 2 minute increment until tie to resume draining. Then that process would begin all over again if the 2nd cooldown fill was in order. Also, I can tell you that when Sears began the agitation while filling during the cooldown, not only did it cause the cooling water to be distributed, it also saved a number of water changes. I remember those early Kenmore models without agitation during cooldown, but also every Wirlpool, there were numerous more partial drain and fill water changes to accomplish the full cooldown process.

Maytag did a partial spin drain and then fill but no agitation on their initial commercial laundry Fabric Matics in the early 1970s (college) and then when it began spin drain again, this complete spin phase also included the typical spray rinse timer increment. I know that my mom's 1995/1996 Maytag Dependable Care LAT washer did an agitation after the initial cooldown fill.

The GE FFlo I bought April 1978 did have a partial spin drain and then fill cooldown sequence. The agitation period after this cooldown fill was between 4 & 7 minutes long before the complete spin before dep rinse was done. GE apparently ony offered this on the market for a very short time before they returned to their typical extended spray rinse on PP cycle.

 

[qsd-dan]

Bob, in your experience, which method worked the best?

 

[Chetlaham]

Many thanks in advance, I would very much be interested in the service manual's description of the cool down. I never knew Whirlpool ever did this, its really neat to discover something so unique. Also one of those things that kind of validates stuff I've been fantasizing about all along.

 

[Chetlaham]

I Found Another One!

@16:03- two cool downs!



Clothing wear might not be so bad after all like I originally assumed.

 

[DADoES]

 
Double cool down was standard until the concern for water usage came into play, then Perm Press went to a single drain/refill.  Later direct-drives eliminated the drain/refill for a spin-spray.

Early Wash-n-Wear version, the cool down was two increments (4 mins) of repeated (as many as could occur via the timer running during the drains) partial drain/refill with no agitation.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Both Kenmore and Whirlpool belt drives with a sudsaver would agitate with no water in the tub. This was as the pump was slowly sucking the water out of the stationary tub and putting it into the washer.

 

[Chetlaham]

Were early wash and wear garments washed in hot or warm? I saw on the video about wash-n-wear they had some type of fill setting between hot and warm. Two drains would make sense in hot water, where as I think one would suffice for warm water.

Having the timer run through out and letting the pressure switch cycle is elegant, but I do agree its not worth all the water waste.

Sud Savers- When do you add clothes on models that agitate while returning the suds?

 

[DADoES]

 
As has been discusses previously, Permanent Press (REAL perm press, which seems rare nowadays) and wash-and-wear required washing in hot or warm (or medium which was a mix of tap-hot and warm) to relax the fabric and shed wear wrinkles back to the set-in factory-pressed finish.  The cool down and then cold rinse was to prevent compression wrinkles occurring if the relaxed fabric was spun while warm.

To clarify if there's any confusion .. Whirlpool PP cycle absolutely did have a cool down, it just never did the agitate-while-refilling variation that Kenmore had for a while.  WP had a separate Knits cycle for a few years in the 1970s with a single cool down ... basically Gentle with a cool down and 8 mins maximum wash time instead of 6 mins.  The double cool down on PP continued into the late 1970s, maybe a bit longer.  A replacement timer on our 1976 WP LDA7800 was revised to a single cool down on PP vs the original timer being double.

Direct-drives did a single cool down ... until sometime in the 2000s changing to a spin-spray as does a 2003 WP "Gold" DD GSQ9669 that I have.

 

[Chetlaham]

That makes sense now. As becoming more apparent, I'm relatively new to washers lol, so my mind is still in the 2000s with single cool downs and folks I knew using warm water.

Did GE ever have a half tub drain cool down?

 

[appnut]

Did GE ever have a half tub drain cool down?

Chet, didn't you see my post above????

 

[Chetlaham]

Ok, my apologies, I guess missed this part yesterday:

"The GE FFlo I bought April 1978 did have a partial spin drain and then fill cooldown sequence. The agitation period after this cooldown fill was between 4 & 7 minutes long before the complete spin before dep rinse was done. GE apparently ony offered this on the market for a very short time before they returned to their typical extended spray rinse on PP cycle."

I know how this looks, but I'll do my best to make sure it won't happen again. I am still tunnel visioned with the Kenmore in the vid, lol. I'm so fascinated and thus fixated by any one concept at any one point in time that I lose awareness of everything proceeding it.

 

[appnut]

It's all ok. A former member of this site emailed me recently with the coment that I was the only individual he knew of who at one time owned a FFlo with the partial drain and refill/agitation Perm Press cycle that GE offered for 10 minutes lol.

I have to admit that very long agitation following the partial drain and refill cool down seemed excessive and unnessary considering the wash cycle had a maximum of 9 or 10 minutes and then having that very long agitation during the cool down ph