Persil Bio (Unilever/UK): Why Can't P&G Do This?!

[launderess]

Actually

First version of Tide detergent did not make much suds, however in an era when soap ruled the roost in terms of laundry day, housewives wouldn't touch the stuff because they swore it didn't clean. P&G regigged the formula to make Tide high sudsing, and sales took off. The rest as they say is history.

Dash and other controlled sudsing detergents always occupied a small niche market. Mainly because front loaders themselves were a large part of the American laundry market,and many, many persons still equated froth with cleaning action.

If the product didn't create suds, people thought it was like pure soaps, and added more. When that didn't work they often would still add yet more. This despite copy on boxes stating the product would not create mass of suds because of it's "controlled" froth.

 

[newwave1]

Frigilux-I use Ariel in both Powder & Gel form.

I live in a hard water area. My machine is a 2009 LG F1402FDS6 9 Kilograms = 0.317832 Cubic feet (I don't know if that is right! I used a converter!) which uses 59 Litres = 15.586151 Gallons (US) of water. It does 3 low/Medium Rinses using a Recirculatory jet which really helps rinse well with minimal water. Usually the water is clear on the 2nd rinse with both formats of Detergent! Nothing beats it in my opinion.

Darren

 

[frigilux]

Thanks for the info, Darren!

 

[whirlcool]

Tide powder low sudsing? That'll be the day.

 

[MrX]

I FAR prefer Persil to Ariel

I occasionally switch between Persil and Ariel and I have to say that I find Unilever Persil a far nicer detergent mostly because of the fragrance.

Persil seems to remove stains just as effectively as Ariel. I have never had any problems with it and anything we wash with it comes out extremely clean. From things that just need a light freshening up, to food stains, to really dirty mop-heads and clothes, it just shifts everything without any fuss.

I find Ariel's cleans well too but the scent is very overpowering. It's a sort of pine-citrus-coconut scent which lingers for weeks on clothes in the wardrobe. I can also smell the box of powder from 2 rooms away!

Persil's got a subtle scent that I just find far more pleasant. It doesn't jump out at you as 'detergent odour' and it doesn't clash with anything else i.e. colognes etc.

I'm increasingly not a fan of Comfort, unilever's softener range, I find their products leave my clothes very 'gloopy' and they seem to have reforumulated Comfort Pure's scent too.

So, I use P&G's Fairy Softener. This is basically the Lenor equivalent of Comfort Pure.

Oddly enough, it actually complements Persil's fragrance *much* better than Unilever's Comfort.

The clothes come out clean, soft and fluffy ...

 

[mr_sparkle]

Launderess I found your description of why US powders foam really interesting and never thought about it before.

And you are right - "EU/UK detergent makers by and large never had to deal with a majority of the laundry market dominated by top loading washers, thus have had ages to develop and refine their products".

My mum has said on several occasions throughout the years, that she will not use X brand because it foams up too much. Its just not something we condiser, well I would never think that no foam = bad cleaning power.

We do still have "Twin Tub" / "Hand Wash" powder here which does foam up a lot and the box warns you not to use it in an automatic machine.

Finally here in UK my favourite powder is now from Costco, its the Kirkland massive drum of washing powder, which is actually for top loaders, it has a special sticker put onto the tub for the EU market warning that you should only use the bottom line on the scoop since its made for American machines.

Would you know who makes this powder for Costco - I think its cleans really well and is very cheap.

 

[MrX]

The H-axis drum-type machine has been absolutely dominant in Europe since the late 1960s. The remaining European top-loaders are H-Axis with a hatch in the drum.

In general machines with central agitators disappeared in the 1960s, with a few niche exceptions e.g. Hotpoint had one model and there are still some whirlpools available in the UK and Ireland although they're exceptionally niche products.

Even the old Hoovermatic twin tubs work best with a low-foaming detergent as they can whip up a heck of a froth if the detergent's high-suds.

So, the detergent market has always been focused on low-foaming products that work well in 99% of machines.

Persil (and Surf) powder has always been very low foaming for as long as I can remember. It varies a little with re-formulations, but in general it will produce very little or almost no suds.

On the other hand, Persil LiquiGel was possibly the most high-foaming detergent I've ever encountered in Europe. It's now almost impossible to find.

Persil S&M liquids are pretty low foaming in comparison.

 

[MrX]

Incidentally, Unilever Persil is sold as : Skip in France and Spain and as Omo in other markets in Europe.

Outside the EU, the formulation is likely to be quite different e.g. in Australia Omo is also available as a US-style top-loader detergent and Persil is in NZ!

 

[zanussi_lover]

Ariel Biological

MRX

I agree with Biological Ariel Powder, the scent is very overpowering. I think the Ariel Colour Powder is easier on the nose and has that grassy scent which Ariel had Until Late 2005 when they changed the logo and packaging, I have used Ariel Colour on whites and colours and find it cleans very well, but due to it having No bleach in it, the whites are white but not as white as having oxygen bleach in it.

Apparently you can still get the (Old) Version of Ariel Biological with the Ariel Colour scent, you can get it in 90 wash boxes and its under the professional formulation.

I am using LIDL Formil Biological Powder on White clothes and Find it to be sufficient, and cleans very well, and has a very subtle scent

Kyle

 

[newwave1]

I would've agreed with the comments about Ariels fragrence about 3years ago. But not now. Now it smells fresh and not all over powering. Perhaps thats because i'm particular about rinsing.

My mum has used Persil non bio since it began. It used to be virtually foamless. However the last few months it has been Suds crazy! We live in a Hard Water Area in Lincoln and granted her AEG has a recirculatory jet but so does my LG and it is more powerful than my mum's AEG jet. I'm willing to sacrifice a load of my washing in Persil non bio to see if I have the same experience. She's very particular with dosing too.

Kyle-Gotta love Formil! Best value detergent avaliable at 8p a wash! It Cleans and rinses out really well!

Darren

 

[zanussi_lover]

Formil

Oh Yes Darren I agree it is a great detergent, Cleans and Rinses well, All we need now is to reintroduce Mega Concentrated Powder Detergents

Bring back Persil Micro, and Ariel Ultra/Futur, and I'll be laughing

 

[MrX]

The Persil Non-bio formula is quite substantially different to their normal bio products. It relies on surfactants and bleach to clean the clothes rather than enzymes.

I never use it, so I don't really have any experience of its foam level.

However, the Persil Bio DEFINITELY still foams less than Ariel.

I know Ariel have toned down their fragrance from its peak a couple of years ago, but it's still an EXTREMELY strong scent.

Persil's changed its formula quite a bit recently too. They've changed the enzymes. It now contains : Lipase, Protese, Amylase and Mannanase. The addition of Mannanase should make it much better at digesting guar gums in particular and other gunk.

 

[nickuk]

UK Powders

What an interesting thread!

I am delighted that the OP is impressed with UK Persil Bio powder. This thread inspired me to do some testing of UK powders - performance and rinsing.

I have just returned from holiday with 9 loads of laundry to do. I have been working my way through these loads today with Ariel Bio, Persil Bio, Persil Non Bio and Daz Bio. Not a drop of fabric conditioner has been used, so that I can just focus on comparing the powders. All washes were done on `Easy Care 40' in the Bosch front loader and for each wash I used 120ml. We have hard water.

Performance wise, I noticed no difference between any of the products and many of the loads were quite soiled. I have three young sons. Even Persil non bio dealt with dried in vomit, urine, chocolate ice cream and sweaty shin pads no problem.

Rinsing wise, Ariel has indeed been reformulated and rinsed clear by the second rinse. I hadn't noticed this and could barely believe my eyes. Daz says `new formula' on the box and the product appears the exact same as Ariel with the blue streaks in it. However, the rinsing was a very different performance to Ariel - the Daz whipped up suds on every rinse so clearly there is some old technology going on despite the revised formula. Persil Bio rinsed really well, and non bio slightly less well, though still acceptably.

All loads were tumble dried without fabric softener.

Scent wise, on dried laundry, I preferred both Persils over Daz and Ariel. This surprised me a little as I actually thought I would slightly prefer the Ariel! I do in the box, and as it wafts from the washer.

To my nose there is now very little difference between Persil bio and non bio, the bio is simply a very little more zesty and hard core. Both left a really fresh scent on the laundry, whereas there was something peculiar, clashing and cloying about the Ariel. Daz left an OK scent which in some ways was very pleasant, but in other ways smelled a little cheap and reminded me of insect repellant spray. Because it was the only one which rinsed poorly, I would discount this product anyway.

Today kind of settled it for me that with current formulations I slightly prefer Persil Powder over Ariel though they are both great performers and it's down to personal preference.

With regards LIDL Formil - I also have a lot of time for this detergent. Unfortunately I have found that it does not clean as well when pitted against the likes of the above brands, contains more fillers and doesn't start working so well from cold. (I tested about a year ago and the results were fairly conclusive)

Just for info - as an aside - a couple of weeks ago I tried Surf (Tropical and Lavendar variants) and was very disappointed with it, finding it to perform worse on a range of stains than Persil Non Bio and for it not to deoderise properly despite containing oxygen bleach. It did have great rinsing and barely sudsed - which was great, but the disadvantages were too significant to consider it.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to a very interesting thread, and for inspiring me to have an interesting (if geeky) day!

Nick

 

[frigilux]

I love it when people do detergent tests! Thanks for your input, Nick. I'm finding UK Persil Bio powder combined with Tri-Zyme stain remover (available from Amway) zaps stains in my loads of kitchen whites even better than US Tide HE/Tri-Zyme. And it rinses so cleanly in my uber-soft water.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Persil

Hi all,

I've found Persil has improved again recently... I'm not sure whether it's my imagination or if it keeps changing every few months! I'm currently using the new Persil tablets (with the Colour written in a rainbow effect much like old Ariel Color) as my colour detergent, and it doesn't leave a musty smell like it used to when I used it for a while last winter. Bought a box of the powder to try next - again has the new packaging and has shrunk like the Ariel boxes did a few months ago so will see if they are as good as the tablets. It has definitely lost that musty property to it's smell anyway.

Currently using Ariel Actilift powder on whites - but will happily try a small box of the new Persil bio after that has gone. Still have to use the Ariel Stain Remover, not had a chance to yet.

Softener wise I'm using the new Orange Blossom Lenor, and I think it's one of the best softeners I have ever used, it smells lush but not overpowering. Smells nothing like oranges, just that fresh washing smell! Got the dryer on at the moment and can smell it wafting through the kitchen everytime I check dinner. A definite recommendation from me, and in combination with Persil Colour tablets it's really nice.

Back to the original question though - the rinsability of both Persil and Ariel seems to be at the best they have both been for a long long while - even if I wash towels on Quick Wash on the Beko which only does 2 rinses, the last rinse (without softener) is always crystal clear. Asda Colour tablets were a different story though - had no end of trouble with frothing when it came to them so ended up just pushing the box to the back of the sink cupboard!

Nick - nice to see you around again, will send you a long overdue email soon!

Jon

 

[MrX]

@lavamat_jon

I've compared the ingredient lists and Persil has indeed been very substantially reformulated.

The major addition is the enzyme, mannanase. It still contains protese, lipase and amylase and the colour version contains cellulase.

Mannase - tackles a lot food stains very well, particularly anything connected with guar gum or other modern natural thickeners and emulsifiers. (This is not in Ariel!)

Overall, Persil would seem to be a far more sophisticated bio than Ariel.

Protese - tackles protein stains.

Amylase - tackles starches and sugars.

Lipase - tackles fats (This isn't in Ariel)

Cellulase - reduces bobbling by digesting loose cotton fibres.

The scent has also been completely changed and it's now identical to Skip in France. It's a much nicer fragrance that isn't at all overpowering and it leaves a nice fresh scent on clothes that lasts after drying.