Plane Crash: this one not so feel good

[gyrafoam]

Yeah, IMO boots are never as good as hot section bleed, but they are cheaper in initial purchase and reduce structural weight, so the bean-counters like aircraft so equipped.

Just because an aircraft has propellers doesn't mean its a bad or inferior aircraft.

The term "jet-prop" came about in the mid-fifties, when all the airlines were scrambling to make themselves appear modern and up-to-date with pure-jets on the immediate horizon. The word "jet" was almost magic! So the airline PR departments were busy trying to convince the uninformed public that their "jet-props" were somehow "real" jets. The correct description is actually "propeller-turbine" powered.
Many of them opted for propeller-turbine powered aircraft which gave them the smoothness and reliability (for those days) and extra speed. As soon as the pure-jets came into widespread use in the late fifties, the first generation propeller-turbine aircraft were (for the most part) obsolete over night.

Fast-forward to today's propeller-turbine powered aircraft and you have some pretty state-of-the-art examples.

Personally, if given the choice, I'd much rather fly in an old, comfortable, and slow piston (DC-6B) or propeller-turbine powered (L-188) airliner----than in today's cramped "lawn-darts". BTW both those old airliners used hot-air deicing very effectively.

 

[whirlcool]

I started out flying the Convair 580 early in my aviation career. Perfect aircraft for upper midwest winter flying, very stable instrument platform.
I know what you mean about what the airlines called their turboprop aircraft. Back in the days when they still had manual flight schedule boards they also listed the equipment. Like "DC-9 JET" But when it came to turboprops they were usually listed as "Jet Powered". I used to laugh at that, but it is true to a point, there is a jet engine out there on the wing!
I used to have passenger ask when boarding a Convair, "Where is the jet? Did it break down?" after seeing "Jet Powered" on the departure board.

 

[gyrafoam]

The old original BN livery on the L-188 vertical fin said
"Jet-Powered". Seems like I can remember CO doing the same with their Viscount 800 series. I used to get a kick out of watching UA crews "hot-starting" a Viscount's Dart engine. They could shoot fire ten feet behind the wing! I used to say they were certainly trying to make a jet out of it!

 

[spiceman1957]

Re: Flight 3407

The saddess part of this story is about the lady (I'm sorry I don't remember her name) who lost her husband in the Twin Towers on 911 to be killed herself in this air crash. Apparently she was going to a college to present a scholarship to some students in her husband honor. What terrible odds this to have happen to her.

 

[fltcoils]

I wish they'd learn

I thought we learned this lesson in 1994....

On Halloween 1994, American Eagle Flight 4184 crashed from Icing after being put into a holding pattern at icing altitude by ohare. It crashed in a field just south of Merrillville killing all 68 people onboard.

An ATR-72, but in many ways the same as what just went down. Boots, twin turbo, small commuter...

My neighbor lost her son on this one.

The ATR-72 ...were effectively grounded Dec. 9 1994 by FAA directive. The planes not fly in known or forecast icing conditions. American Eagle moved all of its ATR aircraft to warmer climates.

wiki thread

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en.wikipedia.org

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www.ntsb.gov

 

[whirlcool]

It's now apparent that the pilots left the plane on autopilot too long.
What happens is that the autopilot controls the aircraft directions, pitch and yaw. When icing is forming, the aircraft begins to handle differently. If you are on autopilot the autopilot compensates for this without the pilots realizing what's happening. Then all of a sudden the aircraft requires more control than the autopilot (or even the pilot) is capable of handling and suddenly you are in a stall situation (the wings stop flying due to interrupted airflow from the ice formation).
So the autopilot auto disconnects and the pilot is left to recover on his own. But in this case, there wasn't enough altitude left for recovery of the aircraft.
Alternative outcomes would have been for the pilot to ask for an expedited approach, or to climb out above the icing conditions and proceed to his alternate airport. Considering the experience of the Captain, I am rather surprised that he didn't do this, or even discuss it with the F/O.