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Excellent words! Fascination with appliances is what brought everybody together on here, regardless of political views or any other differences for that matter. In fact, diversity makes this place even better than before!
 
Yes,of course they think or us that way!

Why did it happen??
I will share my view. They used "Stalking Wolf",red,orange,yellow alerts,and the fear of Gay marrage,commonly known to the Republican as the "lack of moral values" I made up a nice name for the whole thing that I shared with the people I worked on the Kerry campaign with. It is now called the "Spread the Fear/Smear the Queer"campaign.An all new and improved way to get elected for 2004. Available in classic white and other decorator colors,for a limited time only.
Now if anyone else out there has a better name,please share,As I am always open to new and fresh ideas.Being a Proud Progressive,Liberal Gay Democrat and all!!
Well,that was fun but we must face the facts.We are stuck with the dumb ass for four years.He will be able to make us miserable for only two though.The Republicans have to shut him off after two years,so they can "make up" to the "folks" before trying to fool the "folks" with another gem of their kind.By that time Hillary will be ready to run,and I think she will be our first female president.The older more homophobic people will be dying off,and will be being replaced by the more tolerant youth.I think the country will be sick of the so called "christians" of the right wing kind.They will be glad to kick them whole mess out of the White House.And the United States will learn a lesson from the controlling intolerant fool they let stay in charge.
Let the lesson begin.
Best to all,
Rick
 
Can i ask a serious question to anyone who cares to answer?.....Please tell me why you are proud of being gay? I bet most of you who are, at one time felt shame about your proclivity.As for being progressive?....society is degenerating faster with each passing decade,sure we made technological advances,but people are at their core no different now than 2000 years ago.

I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ and i have asked for deliverance from my homosexual orientation,that I KNOW I WAS NOT BORN WITH.It is a constant battle all the time to try to live a life pleasing to my lord and savior.Don't paint christians with such a broad stroke please,it is not for me to judge what is in the presidents heart.Only God knows.

Take the time to read the gospel of John in the new testament and see how much God loved us to send his son to die for us.I was not brainwashed by anyone.
I have always wondered for quite a while what was in the bible.There is no other writing on earth that provokes deep thinking and changed attitudes and minds by the people who study it and conform their lives to it's instruction.

Didn't mean to get off on a rant,but since people are airing their views,why not add one more.Please stop playing the "poor victim". Many in the gay community make it sound like christians are the big bad bullies and the gays are poor defenseless victims.
The christians i know are some of the most caring and compassionate people i know.I confessed to a close christian friend i was homosexual and he didn't judge me or condemn me.He said we are all sinners and he had his own areas of struggle.

In short for any of you christian bashers out there,take the time to see why we believe what we believe....time for many of you to exhibit the "tolerence" you claim to preach.

Pat
 
Christian bashing???

I am sorry to all if I came across as a christian basher.I was trying to be a Bush basher and went too far.Pat I want you to know that I am a christian (Lutheran),pray every day,and attend services weekly.However God made me this way,and He doesn't make mistakes.So I don't think I'll be praying for a cure.I learned to accept myself as I am.
Useing Gay civil rights as a lever to swing people in an election is shameful and is unchristian like.Useing people period, is unchristian like.The people that resort to tactics like that are not true christians.That is what I was refering to when I said "so called christians".I believe the bible refers to them as the "pharisee".
One last thing;the American people are the "poor victims" here.And I will let you figure out who the "big bad bully" is.
Thanks,
Rick
 
#48675

What is "being gay"? I know I was born with my homosexual
inclination, and when I became mature enough to realize what it meant too me, I embraced it with joy and happiness. Who has convinced you that you need deliverance? From what? Don't
fret so; it will all be ok!
 
Hi Pat, I’m glad you felt comfortable enough to speak your mind. Why am I proud to be gay? That’s not easy to answer because there are so many reasons but I will try to explain the most important ones. First of all I’m proud to be gay because how terribly hard it was being gay as a child. When I was about twelve years old I started have my first attractions towards other people and I quickly realized that these attractions were for other boys my age in school and not the girls. I had heard that these attractions would be starting around my age, but for the life of me I couldn’t understand why I would be attracted to the boys, it made no sense what so ever to me. Remember we are talking about a 12 year old child here not an adult. This made me really nervous and for a while during my 12th year of life I had myself convinced that god had made a big mistake and I was suppose to be a girl, and this was probably the biggest mistake he has ever made. For a whole year it made for one very confused child. Sometime in the middle of my 13th year I was watching television with my mother and the Nancy Walker Show was on, this was a short lived TV show in ‘76, but it was groundbreaking in the fact that her butler was a gay man. During the program my mother asked me if I knew what gay meant, and I said no. She explained to me in a gentle, caring way that some people are attracted to and fall in love with people of their own sex. At that point it hit me like a ton of bricks, and I can to this day remember vividly what I thought. “WOW that must be what’s happening to me, I must be gay, that must mean that god really didn’t make a mistake, and I’m OK, there are others like me too.” I couldn’t tell you how relieved I was that night after carrying around this huge burden for quite some time. Now for some reason I instinctively knew not to say “that’s great mom and that’s what I am”, but maybe she already knew anyway and was trying to help. Of course it really didn’t get any easier until after I became an adult, because I was always picked on in school for being gay, but at least I now had an understanding of what was going on here and I was able to protect myself emotionally from the other kids by knowing that the future would be ok.

There reason I’m telling you this story is to tell you one of the main reasons why I’m proud to be gay, because through all the emotional turmoil and burden that gay children are subjected to and have to deal with all by themselves without any help from anyone, so many of us still manage to can come out it emotionally strong, healthy and happy adults and I think that is something for all of us to be extremely proud of!!!

Being gay to me was not a choice, I was born this way. Believe me when I was 12 if I could have broken my piggy bank and given all the money to the “wizard” to make me attracted to the girls, I would have in a heartbeat, I hoped and hoped it would happen. But I learned over the years that was not meant to be and that wasn’t who I am. Of course if someone offered me that magic turn-me-straight potion today I would turn them down in a heartbeat. Why, because I’m happy and why would I want to give up such a wonderful life, and that my friend would be crazy.

Pat, it saddens me to hear you are having this struggle as an adult. The only advice I can give you is you are going to have to accept the fact that there is no “deliverance” from who you truly are.
 
Ummm, read this news story, so what's the difference her

(Saskatoon, Saskatchewan) Canadian bans on same-sex marriage are falling like a house of cards with Saskatchewan Friday becoming the seventh area to declare that preventing gays and lesbians from obtaining marriage licenses to be unconstitutional.

The ruling, by Madam Justice Donna Wilson of the Law Division of the Saskatchewan Court of Queen's Bench, comes the same week that 11 states in the US amended their constitutions to bar gay marriage.

"The common-law definition of marriage for civil purposes is declared to be `the lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others,' '' Wilson wrote in a five page ruling.

She also ordered that a total of $10,000 in legal costs be paid to the five couples making the application. The tab was split evenly between the two levels of government.

The Saskatchewan case was brought by five same-sex couples Four of the couples are seeking the right to marry and the fifth couple want legal recognition of their marriage performed in British Columbia where gay marriage is already legal.

"Marriage signifies societal recognition and affirmation of a relationship between two people who love each other and are committed to each other," said Lenore Swystun, whose partner is Kelley Moore. "Kelley and I had a commitment ceremony January 25, 2002, but for us, equal marriage is simply about acknowledging our basic human rights."

"We are committed to one another and wish to be together for the rest of our lives," said Lisa Stumborg, who had a covenanting ceremony with her partner Erin Scriven on October 9, 2004 at St. Thomas-Wesley United Church in Saskatoon. "Now we'll have a civil ceremony to 'legalize' our marriage. We leave for our honeymoon on Sunday, and now we can be legally married before we leave! To me, the right to marry is important because we would like to have children and we see this as a way of solidifying our family."

"It's nothing revolutionary," said Nicole White, who plans to marry her partner Julie Richards next summer. "I've found the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with." Julie added: "My father was there when I proposed to Niki. He said it was one of the happiest moments of his life. He'll be thrilled that now he can be there for our wedding."

"What this means to me is peace of mind," said James Hein-Blackmore, who married his husband William Hein-Blackmore in B.C. on July 6, 2004. "The day we were married was a great day of happiness as we professed our love to one another. But not having our marriage recognized here in Saskatchewan was a great burden. Now I know that no matter what happens in our lives or our health, I can rest assured that my husband will have all the legal rights to handle things the way we want them."

In addition to British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, and the Yukon territory also allow gay marriage. A lawsuit in Newfoundland was launched this week.

The Newfoundland case involves two lesbian couples who were denied a marriage licenses.

The couples say provincial rules that don't allow same-sex couples to wed violate the Constitution and previous rulings of the Supreme Court of Canada.

Both the federal government which has jurisdiction over marriage and the province of Saskatchewan which is responsible for the issuing of marriage licenses, were named in the suit. Neither level of government opposed the case.

The Canadian government has pending legislation that would legalize gay marriage across the country. The draft bill is currently before the Supreme Court for a constitutional review. But, as the federal definition of marriage as being between a man and a women continues to be struck down in each province where it is challenged federal legislation may become virtually moot.
 
To rickr

I know what you meant about supposed christians.I know a couple of christians who doubt Bush's christian beliefs,but as i said before i will try not to judge.Without getting to deep on this forum,i would love to chat with anyone through e-mail on these views.

frontaloadotmy,nobody convinced me i needed deliverance in the least.I was quiet about my orientation when i first became a christian 4 yrs. ago.I read the bible a couple of times and it is quite clear about what God's intention for a man and woman is.
This is what makes a person see that they have sin in their heart and it struck a fear into me,something in me knew that what this book was saying was true.I thank God for that.God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. E-mail me,i would love to communicate with you more.

Pat
 
Robert, in reply to the fact that you were picked on, that is not right at all and is completely ridiculous. Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) should have to endure that kind of torture for something they can't help, period. Glad everything is just right and you have a fun basement full of 200 lb. toys to play with (LOL), as well as a great website with many followers!

I am straight, but have seen the harsh treatment (and heard those horrible names) some gays at my high school have to endure on an everyday basis by other students, unfortunately. I really feel sorry for them and hope they'll be OK in the end.

--Austin
 
Thank you for your honesty Robert

Robert i have always tried to push those feelings way down and the more you try the greater they come back at you as you knew all too well.I believe the bible to be the word of God and that is why i feel the way i do.
I am not miserable about it.I believe that prayer changes things as i have seen many specific needs in my own life met through the power of prayer.
I did not mean to get preachy to anyone or turn this into a religious forum,but I also believe we will one day answer for our lives and that is something to think about.
 
Our Religion as Americans

I think as Americans, we need to look at what our founding fathers were doing when they established America. They were trying to escape religous persecution themselves. They wanted to create a country where all people were treated equally and with respect. A place where you could believe and practice your religion (way of life) without the government stepping on those rights, but preserving those rights for you. <p>Look at two of our most important creeds.<p>The Declaration of Independence includes these words: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. <p>The Constitution of the United States: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. <p> I think the intolerance comes from the feeling that America is not living up to its promises of equality.....gosh this is like deja vous.....lets see....A war, Social unrest, Equal Rights. Does any of this sound familiar ?
 
Might as well make it official :)

My name is Lawrence, and I am a Gay Christian Democrat. Among other things. Maytag fan (increasingly of vintage machines, not so much the newer ones), music freak, reader...

The difference, as I see it, as I try to live it, is that a person is gay when they have given up misgivings over being homosexual. When they are able to fall in love with a loving individual of their own gender.

My denomination, the United Church of Christ, was the first in the United States to ordain an openly gay non celibate man in 1972! My congregation, is fully open and loving, and we have more than a few gay and lesbian members.

Don't get me wrong, I have many loving women friends, but heterosexuality is not for me.

On a lighter note- are all the little boys in the 50s-60s washer ads (especially the Tide co-op ads) here now? ;-)

As for my distress about another four years, as we say in meetings of various Twelve Step programs, "The only way out is through." I was more involved in this campaign than I have ever been, and I loved it.

My distress centers on the Iraq war and the Supreme Court. One group is so YOUNG, and the other group is so OLD.

Thank you all, and particular thanks to Robert.

Love and laughter!

Lawrence/Maytagbear
(I am active on some other web boards, and always use a site name there).
 
more than face value

That's the problem so often with people in general,they just don't want to get to know the person behind the "label".If your "gay" you are automatically a degenerate,fag,queer,and all those other kind and pleasant words that are thrown at you.

To my own shame i used to be one of those people who made those kinds of comments,.....it's true that the ones who are hiding something tend to scream the loudest.But as i said in another post i have found the acceptance and love of some truly beautiful people in my life who love me and whom i love dearly,...every day is worth living despite what we endure from day to day,it is a blessing from God. Thanks.

Pat
 
Civil unions will come first

All people will get the rights that are owed to them eventually.We will have to take "baby steps" though. Gay people will have marrage in the U.S. someday,but it will be awhile yet.Civil unions will come first.This MUST happen.And it WILL happen.Marriage adds stability to life.Acceptance also adds stability. We have come far in the last twenty years,but we must go farther yet.I had four gay friends murdered in cold blood in the 1980's.One couple were shot in the head in their own home in 1980. One guy was 17 and was murdered in the parking lot after work one night in 1983.And the last one was chopped up with an axe in his own home by three teenage kids in 1987.These things do not happen so much anymore.But they DID happen!
Gay people HAVE to accept themselves as they are,and expect respect from society. If they do not follow this plan they will end up staying in the closet,or using drugs and abusing alcohol as an alternative to accepting their life.
I grew up in the 1960's and 70's in the Midwest.I had my first boyfriend my junior year of high school.We had to be VERY careful so no one could find out! It was NOT a very nice way to live back then.They were NOT the "good old" days for gay people then. I cannot change the way I had to grow up,and the things I went through back then.But I can help pave the way for the new generations of gay kids that will be born.So it won't be so hard for them.And that is the reason that I spent my Saturdays the last few months walking from house to house talking to the people of Ohio.
I also will be getting more involved in promoting gay civil rights on a local level.Because it is the right thing to do.
Thanks
Rick
 

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