Plumbing Problem - Help!

[whirlcool]

This afternoon the cartridge in our single handle kitchen faucet started acting up. Instead of dripping it has a small stream of water coming out when the faucet is turned off. The water is cold. So I went out and bought a new cartridge. When I went to install it I went to turn off the water valves under the sink. Sure enough I found those plastic valves that have a tendency to break without warning. I shut off the cold water valve, but the faucet is still dripping cold water.

So I said, I'm not going to take any chances with it as the last time I played with one of those it exploded and flooded the bathroom until I could turn off the water main.

So I go to the main water cut off and find I can move the valve about 1/2" before it jams. I tried the old plumbers trick of turning on a cold water tap and then trying to move the valve. Still can't move it.

I'm now in a pretty dangerous situation. If that plastic valve under the sink goes there would be no way to turn the water to the house off.

Any ideas how to get that water main valve to move again?

 

[neptunebob]

May have to coordinate with the water company

Your plumber, or with our house, it turned out to be me, has to call the water company and have them turn the water at their valve in the street or in your lawn. Be sure to store some water, as this can turn into an all day affair where they turn it off, you install the valve and then they come back. My mom was going to have Roto Rooter do this, but they wanted to charge way too much so I ended up installing the valve. Fortunately, it was threaded in so I could do that.

 

[rp2813]

Allen, can't you turn off the water at the meter (presuming you have a water meter)? 

 

We just had our supply line from the meter to the house replaced in October and the guy also replaced the shut-off at the house with a ball valve.  That was a big improvement.  Now when the water is off, it's off.  With the old-school valve, it never shut off completely and I'd have to leave a spigot open somewhere.

 

Also, with our just-finished bathroom remodel, the contractor installed a total of five new supply lines for bathroom sink, laundry sink in the adjacent room, and for the toilet.  All of them have triangular knobs that behave like ball valves, turning only 90 degreees, and I'm thrilled.  Those cheap Chinese supply valves tend to create problems like you described above all too often.

 

[whirlcool]

Yes, I had been going around the house replacing those as I can get to them. The new quick turn off valves are only around $8.00 each so it won't break the bank.

I used a mini breaker bar to get the main water valve closed. To turn it off at the street it requires a special tool. The valve stem at the street is down at the bottom of a 2 inch pipe. The only way to turn it off is to have the water company or a plumber turn it off.I've heard you can get those special tools at certain plumbing supply houses, but they are around $50.00.

Well, I got the water turned off to the house. Then all the faucets EXCEPT the kitchen sink stopped flowing completely. The kitchen sink is still dripping away. It's the only sink in the house that still has water in it. I let the faucet open for 5 minutes and it's still dripping.

So I think what I am going to have to do to fix this is to turn off all the water, replace those cheap plastic valves under the sink, and then perhaps replace the faucet. We've been wanting a new kitchen sink for some time, this may be the time to replace it. It would be a hell of a lot easier than getting under the sink to replace the old one.

 

[rp2813]

Sounds like a strange arrangement out at your curb/street.  Here, you do need a special "key" to shut off the water at the meter, but they're available at any hardware store and for a lot less than $50.  The supply line at the meter has a ball type valve, but you need the "key" that fits over the small bar to turn it. 

 

Here's a picture:

 

[rp2813]

And the meter valve that the key shuts off:

 

[washdaddy]

The residual drip you have after the water is turned off could be because of the water draining out of the lines in your house that are above your kitchen if your home is multi floored.

 

[DADoES]

 
I've turned meter valves on/off with an adjustable wrench, if there's room in the box.

 

[whirlcool]

We don't even have a meter in our box in the front lawn, it's an electronic device. A guy from the water board just comes around hangs a wand out his window and drives slowly down the street catching the signals from the water meter boxes.

No the house is single level. WHen I change out the valves, I'll get one of those street turn off tools. It'll make life a lot easier.

 

[whirlcool]

I loosened the nut behind the rotary handle on the indoor main water valve. It turned much, much easier and now when that valve is turned off even the kitchen sink faucet is off. Finally! I am soooo tired of dealing with this today.

 

[sudsmaster]

Good suggestion from Ralph about shutting of the water to house at the meter or service box.

Suggest you replace the main water valve to the house with a ball valve, so 1/4 turn will shut it on or off.

Same for the under-sink valves. Either on or off, nothing in between. And of course you'll want to spring for real brass (albeit chrome plated).

Just try not to leave the ball valves partially on. They don't like that. It could allow sediment on the bearing surfaces which could shorten the life of the valve.

I had a similar problem when I bought this place in '97. I took a month off from work to paint it and refinish the floors. But first I had to address a problem with a faucet. Yep, the under-sink valve was frozen and wouldn't turn off all the way. So then I went to the main valve in the front of the house, and that thing was frozen half way as well. And the more I tried to turn it, the pipe itself started to bend... not good... Called a plumber and he had me dig out the line from the valve at the house to the service box at the sidewalk. It was relatively easy because the heavy winter rains had just ended and the soil was still soft. The old 3/4" buried steel pipe was heavily corroded and I could bend it by hand. He replaced it with copper and a ball valve for shutoff. No problems with that since. Drains, yes.

 

[whirlcool]

I bought the special tool needed to turn off the water at the meter off the 'bay for less than half the price they want locally. Free shipping too. Also got a similar deal on a new cartridge for the faucet. The parts should arrive today or tomorrow.

The kind of valve you describe (1/4 turn off) is the kind I have been installing in this house little by little. This house was built in 1994, so you wouldn't think that we'd be having plumbing problems already. A neighbor had one of the toilet valves explode on them when they were in their house about a year and at the time they were not at home. They came in to a house that had 2" of water on the entire first floor! So I am not taking any chances. What I can't understand is metal valves are not all that expensive, while in the hell did the builder use plastic valves? Surely they couldn't have save THAT much money...

The problem with the main turn off is that it's in the master bedroom's bathroom. And it's behind a 9' long vanity. There is just a small hole that is drilled in the back of the vanity where the stem for the handle pokes through. The valve itself is not visible or accessible. To loosen the nut on the valve, I had to take the handle off and use a deep socket to get to the nut.

And another thing that is very strange. The hot water tank is up in the attic. When I turn the water off, the hot water tank starts making some very loud and strong rumbling noises. You can hear it all over the house. I wonder what's causing that? It lasts about a minute or so then all is quiet.

 

[iheartmaytag]

If you don't mind standing on your head and reaching down in a hole in the ground. You can turn off the water meter valve with a pair of Vice grips.

 

[circlew]

My main water valve ( 1.5" service installed in 2011) is about 6' down a metal pipe that is about 4" or so in diameter. The only way to operate it is to use the special "curb key" tool.

 

[whirlcool]

That's almost exactly what this is. The valve is in a 3 inch pipe that's probably about 4 feet deep. You need the tool to manipulate the valve. There is no other way to get to it.

And you also have to watch it when you open the cover to the box, there may be a snake or two using it as a nesting box! That's another use for the special tool, you can also use it to wrangle snakes!

 

[sudsmaster]

Six feet under? That's DEEP!

On the master bath vanity issue... sounds like time for a sawzall or a hand held jigsaw... to make the hole bigger... or just rip out the entire back wall of the vanity. Who needs it?

But that your '94 house is having these plumbing issues doesn't make me feel quite so bad about having to replace valves on this '41 home. Of course the originals were metal... but nothing lasts forever. Esp the steel piping behind about half of them.

Replacing all the steel is on my "once I retire and have a lot of time for everything" list. Even have most of the copper piping just waiting... but I suspect by the time I do retire I'll not be wanting to crawl under the house any more... And so it goes...

 

[whirlcool]

I think they buried the valve 6 feet down to protect it from winter frost. Here we don't need more than 2 ft for that purpose.

As for your willingness after you retire... it's true once I retired there are some things I'd just rather not do anymore. Especially getting into places where you have to bend and contort yourself to get in there, like replacing the kitchen faucet. The valves won't be too bad as I can just squat down and get to those.

The main water valve in the house is being more cooperative lately, I guess all the turning on and turning off is making it work better. It had been at least three years since it was last turned off before this incident.

I'm still waiting for my parts to arrive. Wouldn't you know it I'd get sellers who are slow to ship..