POD 01/12/2017 - Bendix 30" Tumble Action soft-mount washer

[wft2800]

It has to be said, I rarely need to top up the water level on my 2005-vintage Miele, the 'Water Plus' option is quite enough... for heavier loads (stuff like big bulky bedspreads), I will use either the Delicates 40 wash or the Separate Rinse to fill it before selecting whatever cycle I use. Bear in mind, European FLs need time to heat, with a maximum temperature of 90-95c (even a full 100-105c in some vintage machines). Even with hot water on tap at 60c (which is as hot as any non-heated US washer is going to get), that takes quite a bit of heating... a 10-minute wash time may be just enough if you're treating your laundry with a load of phosphate detergent and bleach (both highly toxic - the former is now banned in the UK and throughout Europe), but you're creating a load of problems for yourself and the environment. Even after loads of rinsing (e.g. my old 90s Bosch does FOUR deep rinses), the laundry still smells of bleach, if I've used it (dirty whites tend to need a bit). Consequently, especially as the wash water has usually ended up pretty filthy, I always send it round a second time without bleach.

Most of the vintage European machines spun out fully between rinses - the big Bosch was the one exception to that. I've just glanced at videos of an AEG Lavamat Nova and a Miele 421 - both spin out before and after every rinse.

 

[speedqueen]

Phosphates toxic? Certainly not, but the issue with them is algal blooms. The ban on residential phosphate use was merely a showboat action as more than 90% of phosphate use is in industry and agriculture. Agriculture run off is what causes algal blooms anyway, because unlike home waste water, there is no treatment involved. Phosphorus is actually a necessary nutrient to ALL living things(alga just goes crazy when there is an abundance).

As to the environmental repercussions of liquid chlorine bleach, there are none, LCB turns to salt after a short time and harms nothing at the concentration in sewer pipes. Chlorine is used to treat drinking water

 

[wft2800]

Phosphate use in agriculture is also on the decline here as more people become more environmentally conscious. Buying organic is now mainstream. Liquid chlorine bleach is known to kill fish and other waterborne wildlife - there was a big leak in my local river, albeit some miles upstream, killed thousands of trout.

 

[tomturbomatic]

There is a difference between a leak of LCB into a water supply and a small amount added to a washing machine and draining into a sewage system to be diluted by and treated with thousands of gallons of waste water.

 

[launderess]

"...vintage European machines spun out fully between rin

Eh?

How far back does your definition of "vintage" go?

To best of one's knowledge none of the Miele washing machines before the 19XX (or their corresponding models sold in Europe) spun after anything but the third or fourth rinse. This includes the topping up with cold water before draining after main wash.

AEG washers one has seen or researched from that same period (before 1990's or so), also did not spin until after two or more rinses. Ditto for Asko and a few others.

My AEG OKO-Lavamat which is from a 1997 series (IIRC) does spin after main wash for Normal/Easy Cares. However if one choses "Sensitive" then the thing will default to a rinse patter not that much different than washers of old; it does two deep rinses after the main wash with no spins between any.

 

[launderess]

"LCB turns to salt after a short time "

Too right.

Which is why you want to always purchase and use "fresh" liquid chlorine bleach and or products based upon. Just rubbished a new barely used bottles of Tilex mold killer that had sat so long the bleach component degraded.

This also explains why for many commercial/industrial purposes they go with powdered chlorine bleach (such as swimming pools), as it is far more shelf stable.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Launderess is right, again! Even the W1918 is pretty wary of doing much spinning other than short pulse spins until after the 3rd rinse on Cottons. The W1986, with a more sophisticated motor speed control spins after every drain on the Cottons cycle.  If an over suds or failure to balance condition prevents a full fledged high speed spin, as soon as the timer advances into the first rinse, it immediately adds time for another deep rinse. Over and above that, the 1918 seems capable of only advancing into a spin at a set motor speed, hence the need for the pulse spins, where the 1986 can ramp up to a selected spin speed, making it often able to spin its way out of an unbalanced or sudsy situation and increasing the spin speed as the load becomes lighter.

 

[wft2800]

Launderess - see

Miele 421 of the mid-to-late 1960s (this one has the 420's 4-paddle drum, the 421S got a 3-paddle drum that was carried over into the first of the modern 60cm models of the 70s), three intermediate spins plus a final spin at the end.

Likewise this AEG Lavamat Nova of similar vintage (again, 4-paddle drum, the 3-paddle drum didn't come in until about 1970-71), three intermediate spins, each followed by a rinse, then a lengthy final spin.

Ditto this '68 Lavamat Bella, spins before and after each of four rinses (although it still appears to have quite a bit of foam left at the end - too much detergent?).

This 1970s Bauknecht only spins before the last two rinses, and I've seen a few other newer (1980s) Mieles and AEGs do the same.

 

[launderess]

Well that's me sorted then.

Have never seen nor heard of an older European h-axis washer that extracted after main wash.

If Miele was capable of doing this for 400 series, why were the 700 and 10XX models saddled with the other way (three to four rinses before any spin).

 

[norgeway]

When I say vintage

Frontloaders I mean Bendix and Westinghouse in the 50s and 60s.

 

[wft2800]

Launderess - you might well ask! The one video (or, rather, series of short clips) I've found of the late-70s W459 (electronic control, rapid-advance timer) shows it doing as you describe - multiple rinses before the first spin. The older Mieles (410, 416, 420, 421) all appear to spin before every rinse. Not sure about the similar 500-series (which had a larger drum and I believe were hard-mount?).

Norgeway, it's true that they were the real pioneers - the early German machines were definitely based significantly on Bendix, Fisher in the UK simply licensed Bendix (Philco) designs and built them here, the first compact (24") front-loader on the UK market, as far as I know, was the English Electric Liberator (a UK-built licensed version of the Westinghouse Spacemate washer), which also had a Westinghouse-derived matching dryer (which in turn was also licensed by Hoover as their first-ever tumble dryer). The 30" Westinghouse models never made it here as far as I am aware - a shame, as I'd love an early-60s W1000/D1000 Program Computer set in my putative collection... although I might be inclined to modify the washer with a stainless steel drum if I could find one to fit, and perhaps even see if I could make it reverse...