wringersteve
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Are there any possible situations where modern powder or liquid laundry detergents, used normally and with no other additives, can damage a porcelain tub?
Porcelain tub question
- Thread starter wringersteve
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HI Steve, I sure can't think of anything that would? Gary
Powders? Shouldn't Think So
As porcelain is designed to withstand alkaline substances and as an added measure powdered detergents often contain chemicals to protect washer parts against corrosion.
It is acids one has to worry about. This is why many American top loading washers came with warning about not using acid based chemcials suchs cleaners or even copious amounts of vinegar often or at all.
As porcelain is designed to withstand alkaline substances and as an added measure powdered detergents often contain chemicals to protect washer parts against corrosion.
It is acids one has to worry about. This is why many American top loading washers came with warning about not using acid based chemcials suchs cleaners or even copious amounts of vinegar often or at all.
jerrod6
Well-known member
I have a double porcelain laundry sink The washer drains into one side of it. I use the other side for household stuff such as cleaning my EAC or other things. All of my bathtubs are porcelain and my kitchen sink is stainless steel. I clean all of them with Bar keepers friend following the directions..although none of these has ever been exposed to chlorine bleach. Everything comes out sparkling. Never been any damage from laundry or Dw detergents.
arbilab
Well-known member
The most aggressive cleaners--toilet bowl acids--do not attack solid porcelain (what a toilet is). But a washer tub is not solid porcelain, it's just coated and the coating can have imperfections which acids will aggressively corrode.
But detergents are nowhere near the pH range of toilet cleaners. If they were, they would dissolve clothes. Most water is alkaline. Also corrosive, but because alkalinity interferes with cleaning, detergents contain buffers to bring the effective pH closer to 7 (neutral). As well as (see above) protectants for metallic washer parts.
So no, detergents cannot damage coated-porcelain tubs. The imperfections in the coating sometimes result in rust over a long time, detergents have nothing to do with that. Typically, the seals or gearbox will be on its last legs by then. Unless the porcelain process was particularly shoddy. Which it sometimes is.
But detergents are nowhere near the pH range of toilet cleaners. If they were, they would dissolve clothes. Most water is alkaline. Also corrosive, but because alkalinity interferes with cleaning, detergents contain buffers to bring the effective pH closer to 7 (neutral). As well as (see above) protectants for metallic washer parts.
So no, detergents cannot damage coated-porcelain tubs. The imperfections in the coating sometimes result in rust over a long time, detergents have nothing to do with that. Typically, the seals or gearbox will be on its last legs by then. Unless the porcelain process was particularly shoddy. Which it sometimes is.
There is one that my father and sister used in my last belt drive, Costco/Kirkland.
The finish on the tub lacked luster/shine from using that detergent and the detergent was so strong that it burns my hands!
Anything else, the basket would never looked so bad!
The finish on the tub lacked luster/shine from using that detergent and the detergent was so strong that it burns my hands!
Anything else, the basket would never looked so bad!
From what I've seen, the problem may be if insufficient detergent is used in hard water, resulting in a lime scale deposit at the bottom of the tub. Not sure if this can damage the porcelain but I have a '65 RCA Whirlpool set with a leaky tub that had LOTS of lime scale at the bottom - with some rust through beneath it.
Normally stuff like oxalic acid or other acids can attack the thin glass layer over baked enamel coatings.
Normally stuff like oxalic acid or other acids can attack the thin glass layer over baked enamel coatings.
In most parts of the United States indeed the world tap water is or near neutral to slightly acidic. This of course will depend upon source of the water and or how it is treated (if at all) before being piped into homes.
Base (alkaline) substances enhance cleaning as they react with fats/oils/grease to form (for lack of a better word) "soap". This is why soaking laundry in an alkaline bath (washing soda, borax, TSP whatever) loosened soils and helped break down oil and grease.
Most all soaps are alkaline in solution (which is one of the ways soap cleans)but some are near neutral. Soaps in general due to their pH and being very good at dissloving oils tend to by drying on many people's skin. There are ways around this but we're not on that right now.
Detergents based upon chemcials can be neutral to highly alkaline depending upon what types of builders,surfactants, and other chemicals are used.
Buffering agents are added to not only protect textiles, but washing machine parts and certain other chemical components of the detergent complex such as bleaches, enzymes and so froth. This why many vintage and even modern detergent packets advised persons not to add packaged water softeners and or other chemicals (aside from perhaps LCB if the detergent didn't contain bleaching agents already), but simply add more product if the load was grossly filthy. The goal is not to interfere with the balance so each part of the detergent can act as it's supposed to.
Because previous laundry detergents including soap contained were alkaline, sometimes extremely so, there was a need for a sour (acid) rinse was required to remove by-products of base substances (mainly sodium bicarbonate)and to ensure textiles were left near or at neutral.
As one has stated previously multiple rinsing with water and testing the rinse baths is often all that is required to bring a high pH wash load dwon to neutral. However this could mean lots of rinsing and again depending upon the quality of local water supplies one may never get there, hence the laundry sours.
There is often a mistaken idea that laundry sours "remove" detergent and or soap residue; that is not the case.
Acids counteract bases, the laundry sour merely deals with any remaining base substances such as the aforementioned sodium bicarbonate. If there is soap residue the acid sour will bind with the fats from the soap to create fatty acids. This residue if not removed will rot and begin to give off a whiff in textiles. It also will attract dirt and oils so items will soil sooner. Finally it is one of the sources of tattle-tale grey laundry.
If detergents (petrol based) were used for the wash and the base residue is greater than the amount of sour being added instead of cancelling out the former will overcome the latter. Commercial laundries use various methods to test the final pH of a rinse bath and or sour bath to see if things are where they need to be. Commercial laundry rinses will give dosages designed to deal with a range of pH as well.
Base (alkaline) substances enhance cleaning as they react with fats/oils/grease to form (for lack of a better word) "soap". This is why soaking laundry in an alkaline bath (washing soda, borax, TSP whatever) loosened soils and helped break down oil and grease.
Most all soaps are alkaline in solution (which is one of the ways soap cleans)but some are near neutral. Soaps in general due to their pH and being very good at dissloving oils tend to by drying on many people's skin. There are ways around this but we're not on that right now.
Detergents based upon chemcials can be neutral to highly alkaline depending upon what types of builders,surfactants, and other chemicals are used.
Buffering agents are added to not only protect textiles, but washing machine parts and certain other chemical components of the detergent complex such as bleaches, enzymes and so froth. This why many vintage and even modern detergent packets advised persons not to add packaged water softeners and or other chemicals (aside from perhaps LCB if the detergent didn't contain bleaching agents already), but simply add more product if the load was grossly filthy. The goal is not to interfere with the balance so each part of the detergent can act as it's supposed to.
Because previous laundry detergents including soap contained were alkaline, sometimes extremely so, there was a need for a sour (acid) rinse was required to remove by-products of base substances (mainly sodium bicarbonate)and to ensure textiles were left near or at neutral.
As one has stated previously multiple rinsing with water and testing the rinse baths is often all that is required to bring a high pH wash load dwon to neutral. However this could mean lots of rinsing and again depending upon the quality of local water supplies one may never get there, hence the laundry sours.
There is often a mistaken idea that laundry sours "remove" detergent and or soap residue; that is not the case.
Acids counteract bases, the laundry sour merely deals with any remaining base substances such as the aforementioned sodium bicarbonate. If there is soap residue the acid sour will bind with the fats from the soap to create fatty acids. This residue if not removed will rot and begin to give off a whiff in textiles. It also will attract dirt and oils so items will soil sooner. Finally it is one of the sources of tattle-tale grey laundry.
If detergents (petrol based) were used for the wash and the base residue is greater than the amount of sour being added instead of cancelling out the former will overcome the latter. Commercial laundries use various methods to test the final pH of a rinse bath and or sour bath to see if things are where they need to be. Commercial laundry rinses will give dosages designed to deal with a range of pH as well.
wringersteve
Well-known member
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Thank you...
...for all your interesting insights on porcelain tubs. Launderess, I particularly appreciate and enjoy reading your thorough information!
Here is the basis for my original question: Last week I acquired a like-new Maytag wringer washer. The machine is nearly immaculate, especially the porcelain tub. Its previous owner took great care of the machine. I wish to keep the tub (and the whole machine) as nice as I can for as long as possible.
Since the machine is at least 28 years old (Maytag stopped wringer production in 1983), my hunch is that any damage from detergents would have already happened by now. Having said that, I still do not want to take any chances. At one time, Mrs. and I owned a 2005 Kenmore automatic with a porcelain tub. All was well until I started noticing small round rust spots on my white clothing that had been left in the tub for a period of time before it could be transferred to the dryer. I attribute this to a production flaw.
From your helpful responses, I'm assuming modern detergents, either powder or liquid, along with my soft water and a very rare dash of liquid chlorine bleach, will not harm the porcelain.
...for all your interesting insights on porcelain tubs. Launderess, I particularly appreciate and enjoy reading your thorough information!
Here is the basis for my original question: Last week I acquired a like-new Maytag wringer washer. The machine is nearly immaculate, especially the porcelain tub. Its previous owner took great care of the machine. I wish to keep the tub (and the whole machine) as nice as I can for as long as possible.
Since the machine is at least 28 years old (Maytag stopped wringer production in 1983), my hunch is that any damage from detergents would have already happened by now. Having said that, I still do not want to take any chances. At one time, Mrs. and I owned a 2005 Kenmore automatic with a porcelain tub. All was well until I started noticing small round rust spots on my white clothing that had been left in the tub for a period of time before it could be transferred to the dryer. I attribute this to a production flaw.
From your helpful responses, I'm assuming modern detergents, either powder or liquid, along with my soft water and a very rare dash of liquid chlorine bleach, will not harm the porcelain.
Acidic tap water quickly attacks copper plumbing. For this reason many if not most municipal water companies/agencies add base (sodium hydroxide for example) to the water before it is sent down the line to make it slightly basic. I imagine it also protects the water company's piping as well.
@wringersteve
You're welcome!
Since the tub on your wringer washer is soild and not of the modern perforated variety normally found on top loaders you are off to a good start. That is as pointed out up thread there is less worry of chemicals and what not getting "under" the baked on enamel surface to cause damage.
What you can do to keep your tub looking NIB is what many women/laundry workers did with their machines; after each use rinse out the tub well with clear water then dry with a soft cloth. IIRC someone posted here awhile ago about a wax type product one can apply every now and then to help protect the tub.
Finally take care with belt buckles and and anything else that could "ding" the inside of your washer. This includes dropping anything inside the empty tub. Not sure if the same would happen, but have seen brand new porcelain sinks crack and or dinged from a bottle of hair lotion falling into them.
You're welcome!
Since the tub on your wringer washer is soild and not of the modern perforated variety normally found on top loaders you are off to a good start. That is as pointed out up thread there is less worry of chemicals and what not getting "under" the baked on enamel surface to cause damage.
What you can do to keep your tub looking NIB is what many women/laundry workers did with their machines; after each use rinse out the tub well with clear water then dry with a soft cloth. IIRC someone posted here awhile ago about a wax type product one can apply every now and then to help protect the tub.
Finally take care with belt buckles and and anything else that could "ding" the inside of your washer. This includes dropping anything inside the empty tub. Not sure if the same would happen, but have seen brand new porcelain sinks crack and or dinged from a bottle of hair lotion falling into them.
