Westinghouse disparaged it as old-style in the 1950s ... but an appreciable number of consumers remain resistant to frontloaders more than half a century later.
PotD 11/20/2024 - Old-Fashioned Center-Post Jerk-Jerk Agitator
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Westinghouse disparaged it as old-style in the 1950s ... but an appreciable number of consumers remain resistant to frontloaders more than half a century later.
Yup ignorant people.
If they still built front loaders like they used to when this POD ad was produced I’d still be buying an FL whenever I needed a replacement.
I’m not ignorant! I don’t like the new FL’s that take an hour or more to complete a load. And I really don’t like the temperamental spin cycles that won’t always dependably go into a spin and finish the freaking load!
These Westinghouse FL’s of the 50’s are the machines that started me on my life long interest in washing machines.
Eddie
I’m not ignorant! I don’t like the new FL’s that take an hour or more to complete a load. And I really don’t like the temperamental spin cycles that won’t always dependably go into a spin and finish the freaking load!
These Westinghouse FL’s of the 50’s are the machines that started me on my life long interest in washing machines.
Eddie
rinso
Well-known member
Isn't it interesting that, although later on the Laundromats were notorious rust buckets with an anemic spin, I don't remember any of these going through control boards, rear seals and bearings, like the new ones do.
10050cielodr
Member
What was Westinghouse's reasoning then when they started marketing TOP LOADERS....first outsourced from Easy and then of their own design.....
What was Westinghouse's reasoning then when they started marketing TOP LOADERS....first outsourced from Easy and then of their own design.....
I would assume nothing more than increasing bottom line as top loaders were king then.
I would assume nothing more than increasing bottom line as top loaders were king then.
I guess I just always go against the popular opinion on washing machines. Back in ‘87 when we purchased our excellent White Westinghouse FL set Consumer Reports gave them mediocre at best reviews. Most people had very negative viewpoints on FL’s, TL’s were King like Robert said. We had 7 trouble free years of use from that White Westinghouse set, sold them with the condo and the new owner rented the unit and kept those machines for a few more years.
When Frigidaire came out with their new generation of FL’s around ‘96 we bought one and it was also an excellent washing machine. I’ve owned 6 different FL’s since 1981. The first 4 were excellent. It wasn’t until we bought a Frigidaire Gallery FL in 2010 with an electronic control board that was programed with algorithms that screwed around with the spin cycle preventing the the machine from going into a fast spin with some loads, instead endlessly attempting to spin and then finally after several mins just giving up that I became disenchanted with FL’s. Then in 2012 we bought an LG FL hoping that the temperamental spin problem had finally been corrected. Alas, same problem all over again with the maybe it’ll spin and maybe it won’t. After that experience FL’s are dead to me.
I’ll stick with my simple BOL Roper that’s provided 5 plus years of trouble free service. If they ever bring back the old school FL’s I’ll consider buying an FL again. But I’ll never have another one of these new temperamental FL’s.
Eddie
When Frigidaire came out with their new generation of FL’s around ‘96 we bought one and it was also an excellent washing machine. I’ve owned 6 different FL’s since 1981. The first 4 were excellent. It wasn’t until we bought a Frigidaire Gallery FL in 2010 with an electronic control board that was programed with algorithms that screwed around with the spin cycle preventing the the machine from going into a fast spin with some loads, instead endlessly attempting to spin and then finally after several mins just giving up that I became disenchanted with FL’s. Then in 2012 we bought an LG FL hoping that the temperamental spin problem had finally been corrected. Alas, same problem all over again with the maybe it’ll spin and maybe it won’t. After that experience FL’s are dead to me.
I’ll stick with my simple BOL Roper that’s provided 5 plus years of trouble free service. If they ever bring back the old school FL’s I’ll consider buying an FL again. But I’ll never have another one of these new temperamental FL’s.
Eddie
neptunebob
Well-known member
Our neighborhood had Westinghouse people...
So I might have an explanation. Westinghouse was a big employer here in the past and WH employees could get discounts on the appliances. The research laboratory facility even had its own Westinghouse appliance store where employees could shop. When Westinghouse got out of the appliance business in 1975 the store and the discounts went away. Several people in the neighborhood had WH appliances, but only 2 had a front loader that I remember. When their FL was replaced, it was a with a Westinghouse or Sears Kenmore top loader. Usually it was because the front loaders were expensive (even with the discount) and unreliable. With some of the large families we had, the small size did not help either.
One woman I worked with at the library was married to a Westinghouse engineer and always had the FL and told me that by 1984 they were getting hard to find, most of the appliance stores did not stock them. She had to go to a store out of the area to buy one at the time. By that time it was White Westinghouse and with no discount she mentioned it was more than $600 when some Kenmores were about $350.
My aunt MAC worked for Alcoa and wanted the best of everything so they had a 50s Laundromat and replaced it with a WH FL in about 1972. She complained the newer model was "built cheap". I remember it being noisy and rusty and eventually, very leaky. She also had the number to "Fuzzy" her repairman posted by the phone to call often. She replaced with the Whirlpool we still use (which I named Walter) in 1992 because "it leaks and that is how we get ants". Walter is still being used by my sister after I replaced some parts but how long will he live?
Our family had Sears Kenmore laundry up until 2000 when I talked mom into buying the Neptune. That was the first time I ever noticed mold in a washing machine. I never saw it in Aunt Mac's Westinghouse. Maybe plastic has something to do with it?
Westinghouse and Sears Kenmore were the 2 brands in the Pittsburgh area. I only saw Maytag and Speed Queen in coin laundromats. Only one family I knew of had a GE set and only one family had Whirlpools. I did not see Frigidaire until we took a Kansas vacation and stopped at a coin laundry in Davenport, IA.
So I might have an explanation. Westinghouse was a big employer here in the past and WH employees could get discounts on the appliances. The research laboratory facility even had its own Westinghouse appliance store where employees could shop. When Westinghouse got out of the appliance business in 1975 the store and the discounts went away. Several people in the neighborhood had WH appliances, but only 2 had a front loader that I remember. When their FL was replaced, it was a with a Westinghouse or Sears Kenmore top loader. Usually it was because the front loaders were expensive (even with the discount) and unreliable. With some of the large families we had, the small size did not help either.
One woman I worked with at the library was married to a Westinghouse engineer and always had the FL and told me that by 1984 they were getting hard to find, most of the appliance stores did not stock them. She had to go to a store out of the area to buy one at the time. By that time it was White Westinghouse and with no discount she mentioned it was more than $600 when some Kenmores were about $350.
My aunt MAC worked for Alcoa and wanted the best of everything so they had a 50s Laundromat and replaced it with a WH FL in about 1972. She complained the newer model was "built cheap". I remember it being noisy and rusty and eventually, very leaky. She also had the number to "Fuzzy" her repairman posted by the phone to call often. She replaced with the Whirlpool we still use (which I named Walter) in 1992 because "it leaks and that is how we get ants". Walter is still being used by my sister after I replaced some parts but how long will he live?
Our family had Sears Kenmore laundry up until 2000 when I talked mom into buying the Neptune. That was the first time I ever noticed mold in a washing machine. I never saw it in Aunt Mac's Westinghouse. Maybe plastic has something to do with it?
Westinghouse and Sears Kenmore were the 2 brands in the Pittsburgh area. I only saw Maytag and Speed Queen in coin laundromats. Only one family I knew of had a GE set and only one family had Whirlpools. I did not see Frigidaire until we took a Kansas vacation and stopped at a coin laundry in Davenport, IA.
Unbalanced spin cycles
Some modern front loaders handle things better than others. Much of that comes down to programming.
Other main issue is machine design and build quality.
My vintage Miele is built to last and can handle unbalanced loads well enough. That is to say won't bash itself to bits but will spin loads that many modern machines won't.
Keep in mind vintage front loaders often had quite a bit of space inside between cabinet and drums. Today in aid of increased capacity (larger or at least deeper drums) while keeping overall general dimensions means there isn't much room for excess drum movements.
In past while washer say like my Miele had room to allow drum to sway or bounce, today's machines often don't. Thus they are programmed more to avoid OOB loads than attempt to spin them I shouldn't wonder.
Programming can of course make washer pfaff about with endless attempts to balance a load, but that can increase cycle time.
Some modern front loaders handle things better than others. Much of that comes down to programming.
Other main issue is machine design and build quality.
My vintage Miele is built to last and can handle unbalanced loads well enough. That is to say won't bash itself to bits but will spin loads that many modern machines won't.
Keep in mind vintage front loaders often had quite a bit of space inside between cabinet and drums. Today in aid of increased capacity (larger or at least deeper drums) while keeping overall general dimensions means there isn't much room for excess drum movements.
In past while washer say like my Miele had room to allow drum to sway or bounce, today's machines often don't. Thus they are programmed more to avoid OOB loads than attempt to spin them I shouldn't wonder.
Programming can of course make washer pfaff about with endless attempts to balance a load, but that can increase cycle time.
If you can't beat them, join them!
Westinghouse tried and tried. They along with Bendix and a few others did their best to get American housewives onboard with front loading washers, but most largely weren't having any of it.
Even Ms. Betty Furness in all her high heeled and girdled glory couldn't sway enough minds to get Westinghouse front loaders any real gain in market share.
American households/housewives went from top loading semi-automatics (wringer washers) to fully automatic center post top loaders and they wouldn't be told otherwise.
Rather than lose sales at some point Westinghouse saw which way wind was blowing and had to come up with top loading washers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1HHHaliOt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMpRVLZkyQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSWiuPTvatI
IMHO front loaders in USA out of the gate were hobbled by a few bits.
First was fact Bendix held so many patents that others either had to pay or find ways to work around. That was quite a lot of R&D money to bring a h-axis washer to market when American consumers mostly were interested in top loaders with central beaters.
Next and perhaps most important was lack of a detergent that could rival P&G's Tide but was low sudsing and clean rinsing to work in front loaders.
Yes, you had Dash, All and a few others but Tide was Queen of Wash day and standard everything else was compared.
Westinghouse tried and tried. They along with Bendix and a few others did their best to get American housewives onboard with front loading washers, but most largely weren't having any of it.
Even Ms. Betty Furness in all her high heeled and girdled glory couldn't sway enough minds to get Westinghouse front loaders any real gain in market share.
American households/housewives went from top loading semi-automatics (wringer washers) to fully automatic center post top loaders and they wouldn't be told otherwise.
Rather than lose sales at some point Westinghouse saw which way wind was blowing and had to come up with top loading washers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1HHHaliOt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMpRVLZkyQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSWiuPTvatI
IMHO front loaders in USA out of the gate were hobbled by a few bits.
First was fact Bendix held so many patents that others either had to pay or find ways to work around. That was quite a lot of R&D money to bring a h-axis washer to market when American consumers mostly were interested in top loaders with central beaters.
Next and perhaps most important was lack of a detergent that could rival P&G's Tide but was low sudsing and clean rinsing to work in front loaders.
Yes, you had Dash, All and a few others but Tide was Queen of Wash day and standard everything else was compared.
"What was Westinghouse's reasoning then when they started marketing TOP LOADERS..."
If you were a Westinghouse dealer back then and were losing sales on laundry appliances because Her Indoors wouldn't have anything to do with front loaders you'd know the answer. Consider also most housewives or whoever when buying laundry appliances often wanted a dryer that matched washing machine. Even if dryer came later if someone bought a GE washer they'd likely go with same for dryer. So that's two sales a Westinghouse dealer may have lost.
Indeed those loses could extend to entire range of major appliances (such as fitting out new construction or remodeling) where builders or households often went with entire range of appliances from one manufacturer.
Some people just wanted what they wanted; fridge, range, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher.. all from same make. If you as dealer couldn't supply they could (and often did) go elsewhere.
If you were a Westinghouse dealer back then and were losing sales on laundry appliances because Her Indoors wouldn't have anything to do with front loaders you'd know the answer. Consider also most housewives or whoever when buying laundry appliances often wanted a dryer that matched washing machine. Even if dryer came later if someone bought a GE washer they'd likely go with same for dryer. So that's two sales a Westinghouse dealer may have lost.
Indeed those loses could extend to entire range of major appliances (such as fitting out new construction or remodeling) where builders or households often went with entire range of appliances from one manufacturer.
Some people just wanted what they wanted; fridge, range, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher.. all from same make. If you as dealer couldn't supply they could (and often did) go elsewhere.
I agree with Eddie, don’t particularly care for front loaders, at leas the modern ones. I can’t have a front loader since it doesn’t have a lint filter, not a terribly good idea when you are on septic.
When we moved here in 2006, my folks got a 2006 Kenmore front load set and to it’s credit, it did a decent job, but around 2015 or so, we had plumbing issues since the drain would get clogged from lint, also got clogged with bits of stuffing from a pillow. We came to realization that it was coming from lint that wasn’t being filtered out.
Ever since I’ve had Maytags since 2016/2017, never had that problem ever again. In fact, noticed a lot less lint on clothing and bedding since the lint filter filters out quite a bit of lint and pet hair (have 3 dogs, also a cat whenever my sister visits since she brings her cat with her).
When we moved here in 2006, my folks got a 2006 Kenmore front load set and to it’s credit, it did a decent job, but around 2015 or so, we had plumbing issues since the drain would get clogged from lint, also got clogged with bits of stuffing from a pillow. We came to realization that it was coming from lint that wasn’t being filtered out.
Ever since I’ve had Maytags since 2016/2017, never had that problem ever again. In fact, noticed a lot less lint on clothing and bedding since the lint filter filters out quite a bit of lint and pet hair (have 3 dogs, also a cat whenever my sister visits since she brings her cat with her).
Given my disdain for top loaders, I'll be hard pressed to accept one in the door, even wit h dogs and cats.
The last toploader I love was our 1970 Kenmore 800 BD. I didn't like thefast, aggressive agitaiton of my GE Filter Flo and we won't even mention the 1986 Lady Shredmore. That cured me of top loaders. I love my front loaders with onboard heaters that allow me to obtain hot washes as hot as 150F if I so desire. And I love paying the minimum sewer charge consistently monthly too.
The last toploader I love was our 1970 Kenmore 800 BD. I didn't like thefast, aggressive agitaiton of my GE Filter Flo and we won't even mention the 1986 Lady Shredmore. That cured me of top loaders. I love my front loaders with onboard heaters that allow me to obtain hot washes as hot as 150F if I so desire. And I love paying the minimum sewer charge consistently monthly too.
Well very puzzling, even baffling to see the industry to have started with front loaders, introduce too loaders and them becoming the leading configuration in laundry rooms, just for Westy to go back to what would make it the last of the front-loading breeds...
The inconvenience of the loading and unloading then should be outweighed by the simplicity, energy (mostly water) saving ability, and what is a very inherently gentle washing and rinsing as well as spinning design...
Gets me wondering why as of yet I'm not on the front loading bandwagon, guess something, could nudge me to sometime...
-- Dave
The inconvenience of the loading and unloading then should be outweighed by the simplicity, energy (mostly water) saving ability, and what is a very inherently gentle washing and rinsing as well as spinning design...
Gets me wondering why as of yet I'm not on the front loading bandwagon, guess something, could nudge me to sometime...
-- Dave
Quite honestly had more issues with lint when using (since sold on) Whirlpool convertible/portable washer with center post beater. That was one reason sold the thing onto another member.
As for my h-axis washers lint isn't much of an issue. One washes like with like including darks with same or similar items. Then there is also separating things that give lint from those that seem to attract. Oh and certain things are turned inside out before going to the wash.
What lint does occur can be taken care of via a trip though tumble dryer.
As for my h-axis washers lint isn't much of an issue. One washes like with like including darks with same or similar items. Then there is also separating things that give lint from those that seem to attract. Oh and certain things are turned inside out before going to the wash.
What lint does occur can be taken care of via a trip though tumble dryer.
Welcome to my world!
Second
Front load versus top load automatic washers
It's unfortunate that front load washers did not catch on in the US. I largely chalk it up to the original Bendix and to a lesser degree, the Westinghouse machines not being great performers.
The Bendix was just too small and did not clean that well because of the small drum size, the slant front Westinghouse has worked better but tangled things so badly that people got tired of them pretty quickly.
By 1990 the white Westinghouse front loader was actually the top rated machine in consumer reports they loved the machine and highly recommended it for its performance and energy efficiency, within two years they did not recommend it any longer because of the reliability problems which had always plagued Westinghouse since the 60s.
There's no reason people with limited space such as Eddie cannot have a front loader today the 24 inch European machines will do a queen size comforter easily, and they fit in a tighter space and save a great deal of energy.
Front loaders always put less lint down the drain than any top loader they just don't create as much lint because of the gentle tumbling action all you have to do is put an old stocking over the end of the hose and run a few loads. You can prove it to yourself a Maytag or a whirlpool. Top loader will put a lot more lint down the drain than any front loader ever did.
Also lint is not hard on a septic system unless you have all synthetic clothing I suppose I have never heard of such a thing lint breaks down. It's 90% cotton from clothing. I've seen analysis of the lint from lint from dryers.
Six or eight of us play naked ping-pong every week at a neighbor's house and we sit on chairs that have bath towel stripped over them so I decided to wash all the towels in his old Maytag dependable Care fabric Matic washer last week, when I went to unload the machine, I've never seen such a mess of lint There was lint all over the towels. There was lint in the wash basket. There was zero lint in the lint filter and there was lint clogging the drain strainer in the laundry sink.
If I had washed those towels in the front loader, you wouldn't of had anything in that drain strainer in the sink I know that from experience.
John
It's unfortunate that front load washers did not catch on in the US. I largely chalk it up to the original Bendix and to a lesser degree, the Westinghouse machines not being great performers.
The Bendix was just too small and did not clean that well because of the small drum size, the slant front Westinghouse has worked better but tangled things so badly that people got tired of them pretty quickly.
By 1990 the white Westinghouse front loader was actually the top rated machine in consumer reports they loved the machine and highly recommended it for its performance and energy efficiency, within two years they did not recommend it any longer because of the reliability problems which had always plagued Westinghouse since the 60s.
There's no reason people with limited space such as Eddie cannot have a front loader today the 24 inch European machines will do a queen size comforter easily, and they fit in a tighter space and save a great deal of energy.
Front loaders always put less lint down the drain than any top loader they just don't create as much lint because of the gentle tumbling action all you have to do is put an old stocking over the end of the hose and run a few loads. You can prove it to yourself a Maytag or a whirlpool. Top loader will put a lot more lint down the drain than any front loader ever did.
Also lint is not hard on a septic system unless you have all synthetic clothing I suppose I have never heard of such a thing lint breaks down. It's 90% cotton from clothing. I've seen analysis of the lint from lint from dryers.
Six or eight of us play naked ping-pong every week at a neighbor's house and we sit on chairs that have bath towel stripped over them so I decided to wash all the towels in his old Maytag dependable Care fabric Matic washer last week, when I went to unload the machine, I've never seen such a mess of lint There was lint all over the towels. There was lint in the wash basket. There was zero lint in the lint filter and there was lint clogging the drain strainer in the laundry sink.
If I had washed those towels in the front loader, you wouldn't of had anything in that drain strainer in the sink I know that from experience.
John
