How many Westinghouse countertop appliances to bring down the entire neighborhood?
Power Outage
- Thread starter drewz
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OK, if your 'tricity were to go off what ONE appliance or 'lectric device would you want to keep RUNNING????
Me, it would have to be my REFRIGERATOR!
Although I don't know how I'd be able to live w/o my dishwasher! And my wife would go crazy w/o her television!
Then there's the computer--how was there ever LIFE before AOL????!!!!
-- Dave
Me, it would have to be my REFRIGERATOR!
Although I don't know how I'd be able to live w/o my dishwasher! And my wife would go crazy w/o her television!
Then there's the computer--how was there ever LIFE before AOL????!!!!
-- Dave
Fortunately, those were connected to a 230 volt circuit at the service entrance panel and the individual 110-120 volt circuits were protected by circuit breakers for the safety and protection of the user and the individual appliances. This is an early one as can be seen by the skillet that does not have a removable heat control. Most of these that had a clock had a provision for automatically starting and stopping the power to at least one circuit in the appliance center. As removable heat probes on immersible appliances became common place, the pull out cords with the female receptacle on the end became less useful and simple outlets replaced some of them.
arbilab
Well-known member
In the 50s Westinghouse had a short film titled "CSP For Me" about pole transformers. The theme was neighbors killing the neighborhood plugging in too many appliances and that the CSP could trip and be reset whereas Brand G would go until it burned out and have to be replaced. CSP stood for completely self protecting.
You may have seen them if you're old enough and tended to look up power poles. The 'trip' indicator was a red light within a brass assembly including a loop allowing it to be reset with a pole from the ground.
You're not likely to see them today. A lineman told me that the breaker immersed in the transformer's cooling/insulating oil contaminated it over time. I would love to see that movie again but I've looked in the Westinghouse archives and it doesn't show. Very little does.
You may have seen them if you're old enough and tended to look up power poles. The 'trip' indicator was a red light within a brass assembly including a loop allowing it to be reset with a pole from the ground.
You're not likely to see them today. A lineman told me that the breaker immersed in the transformer's cooling/insulating oil contaminated it over time. I would love to see that movie again but I've looked in the Westinghouse archives and it doesn't show. Very little does.
polkanut
Well-known member
I have the Westinghouse percolator pictured above. I found it on 1/2 price day about 4 years ago at a very nice estate sale, paid $5 IIRC, just like new.
CSP transformers are still available.The breaker and tap changer are not in the fluid.They are at the top of the transmformer can.There is also a warning light on the transformer case indicating an OL that did not trip the internal sec breaker.Your homes entrance,and branch breakers should trip LONG BEFORE the one in the transformer.The transformer may serve -typically more than one house.CSP transformers also have lightening protection for the transformer-but not the loads connected to it.A fuse protects the primary of the transformer.The fuse holder is on the pole crossarm above the transformer.
arbilab
Well-known member
Yes, the light came on for conditions other than trip. Bearing in mind I'm the type who looks up poles, I haven't seen one since 1965. I was talking to a lineman in a transformer yard and I'm in no position to dispute what he said. I brought up CSP and he told me it had been abandoned, and in that system (Austin TX) it had. I see on google it's still a current (pun) technology but I STILL haven't seen one since 1965.
I had a miniature working model CSP (sales tool) as a kid. It had all the physical features including real ceramic ribbed insulators but inside there was only a 120-24V doorbell transformer and no breaker. And no PCBs!
I had a miniature working model CSP (sales tool) as a kid. It had all the physical features including real ceramic ribbed insulators but inside there was only a 120-24V doorbell transformer and no breaker. And no PCBs!
I have seen them listed in some GE and Seimens(former Westinghouse) transmformer catalogs.the model transformer sounds pretty cool.i look at poles,too,and have many McGraw Hill Linemans manuals-and here at work I deal with 4160V 3Ph power-4160 was a former dist voltage.now its for large equipment utilization-our transmitters.Maybe the lineman referred to the system in your area.come to think of it a radio station transmitter site where I used to work had a bank of CSP transformers in a 3Ph bank-was in Wash DC area-they stepped down 13.8Kv to 208-120V 3 ph.One day a lineman was knocking on the transmitter building door-the site was manned.He was very excited and concerned-the OL warning lights on all three pigs were lit-he asked-"What are you running here?"I told him both FM transmitters and an AM transmitter-and the building AC.He wrote up an order for larger transformers-this was over 20yrs ago-don't know if the sites transformers were upgraded.the AM was moved to another plant and upgraded to 50Kw.I had to specify the transformers and pole layout for the site since the building was not on the road.that linemans manual was sure handy!I told the station I was doing the linemans work in adddtion to mine-they paid me a few dollars extra.the site needed 3 100Kva transformers in a 3 phase bank-these were not CSP models-those cost extra.the transformers stepped 13.8Kv to 480V three phase.50Kw AM's usually run from 480V.the power company lineman provided and installed the transformers and related equipment.and the electricians we hired used a drilling rig and a backhoe to dig the pole holes.They had their own linemans truck.The plant where I work has a linemans truck as well.The tower riggers use it.
arbilab
Well-known member
Most of what I know of apparatus came from dad, worked for W, where I got the model transf. Distribution and residential line supply has changed substantially here since the 60s. Only exposure to industrial was a large AM/TV plant in Oklahoma, with their own redundant dist switchgear and dist/line transfs. Only machinery I was in charge of was 240/208 3ph, and really only the consumption part, not the supply part. I'm squeamish with 240 and won't go near 480+. Worked on a lot of stuff with 30kV DC running around inside, but that's not instant death like 480VAC.
both of us must work on--transmitters-There is one here that has 30Kv DC in it as the main supply voltage for the modulator stages-we treat this transmitter with utmost caution!!!It has KILLED ONE PERSON and just about another.Presently it is running a long airshow-just LEAVE IT ALONE while the rig(AEG Telefunken)while its going.the 30KvDC supply is rated up to 30A current.And by the way looked up on the poles in may area--they are ALL CSP pigs.On the way into work spotted one of thems bright red OL light.Some of these transformers are quite old.Corrosion thru the paint on the cans.Most large metro radio TV stations can have more than one power feed and a genset.the genset at this site is 1.8Mw 4160V has a Cat 16 cylinder engine-and we have to "baby" this set or we could end up in the dark off air!the site is fed with a 115Kv 3Ph 10Mva feeder that the transformers step down 115Kv to 4160V 3 Ph.Our line is shared with the DuPont plant in Kinston and the Weyerhauser plant in New Bern.and 4160V is instant death with cremation added to it.At this plant your AC-DC hot stick voltage detector and ground hooks are your best freinds!
arbilab
Well-known member
The 30kV was in Tek monitors. Not 30A, maybe 30mA. And TV monitors don't backfeed. I've 'hung around' transmitters but never opened one despite being licensed to. We had TX guys for that. They couldn't fix monitors and didn't have the slightest idea what went on in a VTR, so I didn't feel guilty not fixing transmitters.
I saw red lights on CSPs all the time. Roughly one every block. I don't think they were tripped, just 'warning'.
I haven't see anything residential but 240 inverse single phase (2 wire plus neutral) in 25 years. But our 1957 house had 3ph plus inverse single phase plus neutral (5 wires). They even ran service (3 wire) between poles. Never seen today unless grandfathered. Today you see one CT dist/serv transf for every 4 houses. Or a much bigger pad transf for 'communities' like apartments. That's how much residential service had changed.
I saw red lights on CSPs all the time. Roughly one every block. I don't think they were tripped, just 'warning'.
I haven't see anything residential but 240 inverse single phase (2 wire plus neutral) in 25 years. But our 1957 house had 3ph plus inverse single phase plus neutral (5 wires). They even ran service (3 wire) between poles. Never seen today unless grandfathered. Today you see one CT dist/serv transf for every 4 houses. Or a much bigger pad transf for 'communities' like apartments. That's how much residential service had changed.
Out my way run and fix transmitters(100Kw,250Kw,500Kw short wave)all the time-most of the time they cooperate-occasionally one or more will break.Problems can be minor or major.most of the time its routine PM-cleaning,and inspection,fixing little problems before they become big ones.In the building we have transformer banks that step down the 4160 to 208/120,230V 3 ph.when cruising into work for this mid shift-did see one CSP warning light.Handy for the linemen in the area.We used to have some Westinghouse pole transfromers that stepped 4160 to 230V-these are gone and the 40Kw sideband Tx now runs on the main 230V supply.The older Continental electronics 500Kw SW transmitters have 3 huge Westinghouse transformers that step 4160V to 10Kv for a 15Kv rectifier.Main HV supply.One day there was a 15Kv junction point on a capaciter rack near the concrete wall in the transfomerer vault-a wire lingered in the wall for years-from when the place was built-One time the 15Kv DC arced to that wire burning thru 2" of concrete to get to the wire!The scar on the wall is still there.Scary stuff.
arbilab
Well-known member
HV is spooky alright. Two stories. Driving along city street in OKC with 138K transmission along the side. There was an explosion and light so bright I thought the car was on fire. Stopped and looked, nothing. Out of a clear, calm sky, the transmission line faulted and 'just happened' to be right over my head.
3AM in Austin, woke up, didn't know why. Then HUGE explosion and the clock went off. I knew immediately what it was. Drove to the substation and sure enough a 138K>7.2K transformer blew the top off and was on fire. Whaddya gonna do about that? Shoot water on it? With bypasses and redundancies they had the lights back on in 30 min.
We had a series of 3R earthquakes here, all but one in the middle of the night. Somehow I woke up just before each of them. I'm not 'always' that Nostradamus but how the devil did I manage to wake up just before all those things?
Oh, wait. I have CAUSED lightning 3 times just by thinking about it. Two very specific. One a power pole behind the other side of an apartment complex. Standing on the porch watching the storm, thought "wouldn't it be neat if lightning hit that pole?" and about 5 seconds later it did. The other was a building I was in, one of those jobs that you'd rather be dead, smoking outside under an awning in a storm, leaned up against a metal pole and said "now would be a good time". Well not right then but about a minute later, lightning hit the building. Blew a bunch of electronics, set off the fire alarm, 8 trucks came but the building wasn't burning.
3AM in Austin, woke up, didn't know why. Then HUGE explosion and the clock went off. I knew immediately what it was. Drove to the substation and sure enough a 138K>7.2K transformer blew the top off and was on fire. Whaddya gonna do about that? Shoot water on it? With bypasses and redundancies they had the lights back on in 30 min.
We had a series of 3R earthquakes here, all but one in the middle of the night. Somehow I woke up just before each of them. I'm not 'always' that Nostradamus but how the devil did I manage to wake up just before all those things?
Oh, wait. I have CAUSED lightning 3 times just by thinking about it. Two very specific. One a power pole behind the other side of an apartment complex. Standing on the porch watching the storm, thought "wouldn't it be neat if lightning hit that pole?" and about 5 seconds later it did. The other was a building I was in, one of those jobs that you'd rather be dead, smoking outside under an awning in a storm, leaned up against a metal pole and said "now would be a good time". Well not right then but about a minute later, lightning hit the building. Blew a bunch of electronics, set off the fire alarm, 8 trucks came but the building wasn't burning.
QUOTE: I haven't see anything residential but 240 inverse single phase (2 wire plus neutral) in 25 years. But our 1957 house had 3ph plus inverse single phase plus neutral (5 wires). They even ran service (3 wire) between poles. Never seen today unless grandfathered.
What is the "inverse" neutral?
What is the "inverse" neutral?
arbilab
Well-known member
The 'inverse' part is that the 2 120 wires are 180* out of phase, where the 240 comes from. Neutral is just the reference for 120. Transf center tap, pole stake, bare drop wire that looks like it's just holding up the other 2.
We used to call neutral 'ground' until that became a separate (green in US) wire. If the drop and pole stake wire had zero resistance, neutral would still be ground.
Seemed electricity worked perfectly well without green wires. But mains leakage to case could shock--or even kill--you. With the green wire it either trips the GFCI or the breaker.
We used to call neutral 'ground' until that became a separate (green in US) wire. If the drop and pole stake wire had zero resistance, neutral would still be ground.
Seemed electricity worked perfectly well without green wires. But mains leakage to case could shock--or even kill--you. With the green wire it either trips the GFCI or the breaker.
