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Prius, You're a Little Late to the Party
- Thread starter rp2813
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Wikipedia should be taken with whatever due caution ... but the Electric Car article there says the first models were produced in the 1880s.
My Fusion hybrid has settled on 41.4 accumulated average MPG (accuracy of the onboard computer taken with due skepticism). It has reported 45 MPG for a few highway runs of 20-ish miles and in the upper 60s for certain in-town trips.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Interesting.
I certainly had the sense that the Prius isn't a totally new idea. I seem to recall the hybrid idea being mentioned as a "possibility" or "under research" or some such thing in late 70s/early 80s gas crisis era articles.
I certainly had the sense that the Prius isn't a totally new idea. I seem to recall the hybrid idea being mentioned as a "possibility" or "under research" or some such thing in late 70s/early 80s gas crisis era articles.
delaneymeegan
Well-known member
My Prius C ....
Has been known to a bit over 70 mpg, on long trip and freeway miles. Generally get about 45 mpg.
I can't wait to get a plug-in. (tee-hee)
And yeah, the electric motor powered vehicles are SUPERIOR, that's why the handful of investors in the oil, tire, and insurance companies pushed to squash the electric vehicles and Class A railways the U.S. once had.
Instead, the average U.S. person is left with few choices in transportation, and forking over ridiculous sums for depleted PETROLEUM based crap.
Has been known to a bit over 70 mpg, on long trip and freeway miles. Generally get about 45 mpg.
I can't wait to get a plug-in. (tee-hee)
And yeah, the electric motor powered vehicles are SUPERIOR, that's why the handful of investors in the oil, tire, and insurance companies pushed to squash the electric vehicles and Class A railways the U.S. once had.
Instead, the average U.S. person is left with few choices in transportation, and forking over ridiculous sums for depleted PETROLEUM based crap.
Trolley-Buses? (Or Trolley Cars?)
Thats a nice idea, I think... If it could be adapted to cars (Yep, messy and probably fraught with electrocution, tangling and all sorts) it would be great.
Cue using the atmosphere as a means of transmitting power as envisaged a long time ago by crazy scientists.
I'm not completely sold on electric cars. We've already had the Tesla fire debacle, and the "range" debacle. If technology can overcome this, great. Doesn't mean to say that people demanding less for even less won't cause fires and poor-quality batteries to abound.
Nor am I sold on hybrids - particularly because of the amount of resources that are used in shipping components here, there and everywhere across the globe. Yes, fuel economy is a boon - but if it only mitigates the effects (i.e. consumption of fuel, emissions) of production. In the end, is there really any benefit compared to a simplistic, domestic car of the 1950s or 1960s - or even something produced more recently?
The question with these battery-powered cars is what happens to the batteries when they are depleted. Are they really easily recyclable, or is this yet another product we'll poison the soil with? Are the batteries cheaply refurbished or replaced, so you aren't forced into a new car every time one dies?
And with hybrids, do they really net big savings? Delaney's figure of 70mpg is quite impressive for long runs. But as reported, 40-50 around town is expected with the stop-go-stop of city traffic.
A lot of non-hybrids can come close, and depending on the driver, a hybrid may not yield much benefit - a common "soccer mum" driver floor-boarding round town and standing on the brakes would probably not see much benefit if the ICE is running hard to accelerate and charge the battery.
http://www.hybridcars.com/top-10-most-fuel-efficient-non-hybrid-cars-for-2014/
I wonder too where the Hydrogen options have gone? There was quite a bit of hum a few years back, but they seem to have lost press recently. Surely hydrogen would be something "BigOil" could get into, after-all, someone has to make it, right?
Chrysler experimented with their Turbine Car from the 1950's-1980s. While they weren't much in terms of emissions or economy early on, they eventually did develop into great engines. Sadly, thanks to Chrysler's bankruptcy, this concept was scrapped. With today's technology, I bet you could get some nice cars out with this concept: Smooth running (No more 3-cyl rattle boxes!), good economy, low emissions and relatively low noise too. The biggest boon is lack of servicing. Turbines are far more simplistic and seemingly only need minor attention from time to time.
We won't get into nuclear cars, for obvious reasons. Though I think Ford was pushing the idea for a time in the 1950's - complete with an electronic forcefield to ensure any accidents didn't produce a comical-sounding, "meltdown on Main St."
Thats a nice idea, I think... If it could be adapted to cars (Yep, messy and probably fraught with electrocution, tangling and all sorts) it would be great.
Cue using the atmosphere as a means of transmitting power as envisaged a long time ago by crazy scientists.
I'm not completely sold on electric cars. We've already had the Tesla fire debacle, and the "range" debacle. If technology can overcome this, great. Doesn't mean to say that people demanding less for even less won't cause fires and poor-quality batteries to abound.
Nor am I sold on hybrids - particularly because of the amount of resources that are used in shipping components here, there and everywhere across the globe. Yes, fuel economy is a boon - but if it only mitigates the effects (i.e. consumption of fuel, emissions) of production. In the end, is there really any benefit compared to a simplistic, domestic car of the 1950s or 1960s - or even something produced more recently?
The question with these battery-powered cars is what happens to the batteries when they are depleted. Are they really easily recyclable, or is this yet another product we'll poison the soil with? Are the batteries cheaply refurbished or replaced, so you aren't forced into a new car every time one dies?
And with hybrids, do they really net big savings? Delaney's figure of 70mpg is quite impressive for long runs. But as reported, 40-50 around town is expected with the stop-go-stop of city traffic.
A lot of non-hybrids can come close, and depending on the driver, a hybrid may not yield much benefit - a common "soccer mum" driver floor-boarding round town and standing on the brakes would probably not see much benefit if the ICE is running hard to accelerate and charge the battery.
http://www.hybridcars.com/top-10-most-fuel-efficient-non-hybrid-cars-for-2014/
I wonder too where the Hydrogen options have gone? There was quite a bit of hum a few years back, but they seem to have lost press recently. Surely hydrogen would be something "BigOil" could get into, after-all, someone has to make it, right?
Chrysler experimented with their Turbine Car from the 1950's-1980s. While they weren't much in terms of emissions or economy early on, they eventually did develop into great engines. Sadly, thanks to Chrysler's bankruptcy, this concept was scrapped. With today's technology, I bet you could get some nice cars out with this concept: Smooth running (No more 3-cyl rattle boxes!), good economy, low emissions and relatively low noise too. The biggest boon is lack of servicing. Turbines are far more simplistic and seemingly only need minor attention from time to time.
We won't get into nuclear cars, for obvious reasons. Though I think Ford was pushing the idea for a time in the 1950's - complete with an electronic forcefield to ensure any accidents didn't produce a comical-sounding, "meltdown on Main St."
There are hybrid diesel-electric buses used by ECU here in Greenville.they are used for transporting students to to-from the school to housing and shopping.wished I had THAT luxuary when I went to college.There had to WALK around town or school.
Turbine cars were interesting---but inefficient.Gas turbine engines need to be run at almost and full throttle for best efficiency-this is why they don't work well for cars or locomotives.Gas turbines work best on airplanes,ships,electric power generation,and natural gas pumping-compression.In these uses the engine is running at near full-or full throttle.And gas turbines like being run at constant speed with little variation.
Turbine cars were interesting---but inefficient.Gas turbine engines need to be run at almost and full throttle for best efficiency-this is why they don't work well for cars or locomotives.Gas turbines work best on airplanes,ships,electric power generation,and natural gas pumping-compression.In these uses the engine is running at near full-or full throttle.And gas turbines like being run at constant speed with little variation.
I still love my VW TDI. Too bad I won't be able to get a new one (thanks alot VW)
vacerator
Well-known member
Greg,
if diesel were cheaper than petrol, trust me, you'd be able to get a new one.
If Lawrenceville Georgia can afford to run their garbage trucks on bio diesel, well, just saying.
The air quality in Europe isn't any worse than here, and there are many more diesel VW's on their roads.
if diesel were cheaper than petrol, trust me, you'd be able to get a new one.
If Lawrenceville Georgia can afford to run their garbage trucks on bio diesel, well, just saying.
The air quality in Europe isn't any worse than here, and there are many more diesel VW's on their roads.
Municpal vehicles such as trash trucks and others are going to compressed natural gas.On the trash truck-the fuel tank is on the roof of the compactor body.The engines need less service,lower tailpipe emissions,and no diesel fuel odor.The diesel engine even runs quieter!And trash body compactors now can operate at idle speeds-no racing the engine to load or run the pack cycles.Lower fuel use and quieter operation.Less wear and tear on parts.
Oh Wow! I had forgotten the revving of the garbage trucks when they compacted the load. What a neat sound from my childhood.
I have seen ads for electric vehicles in the 20s and 30s used in the specialized field of early morning deliveries of milk and papers so that they did not make noise to wake sleeping citizens. I thought that was a pretty nice use of the technology.
I have seen ads for electric vehicles in the 20s and 30s used in the specialized field of early morning deliveries of milk and papers so that they did not make noise to wake sleeping citizens. I thought that was a pretty nice use of the technology.
CNG cars
I've considered getting a CNG Honda. I could have the home fueling system installed and always have a full tank of compressed natural gas...it would still be cheaper than gasoline or diesel. I currently get 50mpg and only fill up twice a month and that's with a 100 mile round trip commute. I've saved enough money over the past 15 years of ownership to have paid for it.
I've considered getting a CNG Honda. I could have the home fueling system installed and always have a full tank of compressed natural gas...it would still be cheaper than gasoline or diesel. I currently get 50mpg and only fill up twice a month and that's with a 100 mile round trip commute. I've saved enough money over the past 15 years of ownership to have paid for it.
CNG
An interesting concept. Not sure how it compares with LPG - although I think modern systems are far better than what used to be offered.
A lot of the buses here in Perth are powered by CNG, for a while it was actually government policy for "Gas Only" fleet replacement. This idea lost its lustre when it became apparent that artics nearly 30 years of age were still pulling the weight, and no CNG-powered artics were in sight.
So now there is an infestation of Volvo diesels... The rigids are probably some of the most rattly, jerky, rough and noisy "things" (or contraptions) I've been on. Haven't gotten on one of the new artics. My hopes are high, they have a high mark set by Renaults, MAN's and Mercedes that went before them.
There were also several "test runs" of LPG and CNG buses over the years. A few Mercedes O305's found themselves with LPG engines/conversions, some saw CNG. Early on, a few even got a "CNG Booster," which at least sounds like a good idea.
A round of CNG O405's in the early 90's came, and still run.
Another round of CNG O405NH's complemented the Diesels (although they always sound like they're on their last legs...).
Then finally the OC500LE's which were initially Gas only, but now comprise Diesels too, IIRC.
Most of the taxi fleet traditionally ran LPG - although I think this has lost its attraction what with the loss of government subsidies and LPG costs nearly equivalent to Petrol. Its not good when LPG can nearly halve fuel economy with some setups.
An interesting concept. Not sure how it compares with LPG - although I think modern systems are far better than what used to be offered.
A lot of the buses here in Perth are powered by CNG, for a while it was actually government policy for "Gas Only" fleet replacement. This idea lost its lustre when it became apparent that artics nearly 30 years of age were still pulling the weight, and no CNG-powered artics were in sight.
So now there is an infestation of Volvo diesels... The rigids are probably some of the most rattly, jerky, rough and noisy "things" (or contraptions) I've been on. Haven't gotten on one of the new artics. My hopes are high, they have a high mark set by Renaults, MAN's and Mercedes that went before them.
There were also several "test runs" of LPG and CNG buses over the years. A few Mercedes O305's found themselves with LPG engines/conversions, some saw CNG. Early on, a few even got a "CNG Booster," which at least sounds like a good idea.
A round of CNG O405's in the early 90's came, and still run.
Another round of CNG O405NH's complemented the Diesels (although they always sound like they're on their last legs...).
Then finally the OC500LE's which were initially Gas only, but now comprise Diesels too, IIRC.
Most of the taxi fleet traditionally ran LPG - although I think this has lost its attraction what with the loss of government subsidies and LPG costs nearly equivalent to Petrol. Its not good when LPG can nearly halve fuel economy with some setups.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
One bus system in my area moved to CNG some years back. It seems to mostly be working for them.
I have heard drivers complain in that they perceive CNG to be less poweful than diesel would be. Not sure if they are right, and, if so, why (e.g., nature of CNG, or possibly other changes made along with CNG).
They did have one incident with CNG supply exploding or catching fire a few years ago. Must have been scary... Article: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/natural-gas-explosion-rocks-pierce-transit-facility/
I have heard drivers complain in that they perceive CNG to be less poweful than diesel would be. Not sure if they are right, and, if so, why (e.g., nature of CNG, or possibly other changes made along with CNG).
They did have one incident with CNG supply exploding or catching fire a few years ago. Must have been scary... Article: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/natural-gas-explosion-rocks-pierce-transit-facility/
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
I had a stack of "History of the Automobile" books when I was a kid. IIRC until WWI it really was a 3-way tie between gasoline, electric, and steam as to which would 'win'. All the R&D that went into aircraft motors transferred to cars. Hybrids were also around then. Detroit or Columbia Electric come to mind with that, not sure why.
Personally, I wonder why no hybrid or electric cars have solar panels on the roof. The cost has come down enough that one would think it would be economically feasible.
Jim
Personally, I wonder why no hybrid or electric cars have solar panels on the roof. The cost has come down enough that one would think it would be economically feasible.
Jim
I liked the sound of the reved trash trucks--except when I was sleeping.Used to live by the Iverson Mall and Temple Hills shopping centers and the trucks were racing their motors--FL trucks to empty dumpsters and pack at wee hours in the morning.I also liked the sound of bags and bottles popping and crunching!Now its trash trucks load dumpsters adn pack at idle or just above it.Their PTOS disconnect at a certain engine RPM.That is why when you are watching a "hopper shot" of a SL trash truck and the ram stops moving when the truck speeds up.Classic Refuse Trucks Videos on YouTube.
