Question about a heat pump condensor fan ....

[volsboy1]

I have a friend who is kinda strapped for cash.. She has a very old Amana Package Gas unit its a 1988 model it works fine but

the main condenser fan is going out..

She had a guy quote her 700 bucks for that damn thing.. It's a 825 R.P.M. G.E. motor 1/6 H.P. I told her that is a RIP off in the biggest sense

I have found a bunch on Ebay for 68 bucks and I know how to change it out.. Most I have found are 1075 R.P.M  will a faster fan hurt?

screw something up even if it draws the same Amps and uses the same Capacitor?

The biggest thing is it needs to be cleaned bad which I know how to do..

I think the guy is trying to rip her off cause she is a woman ...

The fan on that thing is a very shallow pitch 4 blade job and it's huge would a faster motor make it very loud it's loud as

hell anyway...

There is no way that is the right price we replaced a Trane multi speed Permanent mag motor for less than that...

 

[cfz2882]

will need to up the horsepower to turn the fan at a higher RPM,probably to ~1/2 hp.do you know the fan blade diameter?

 

[washer111]

Our A/C unit is positively ancient. 1984. 

 

In 2010, when we arrived, it still had the 2 original GE Condenser motors (same as you describe, but 3PH/415v). At the end of Summer, one died. Even with Australia's exorbitant prices for, next to everything, the total repair bill came to somewhere between $150-$300. The same happened over a year later with the other motor. 

(I think the issue stemmed from the unit sitting for near a decade, due to a faulty TX-Valve, the motors were probably bad to begin with). 

 

She needs to find a better technician, IMO. 

 

While you can buy the parts and DIY, if another tech finds out, it might be like mechanics, who often don't play around with cars that are extensively "DIY'd," in the case of HVAC, I understand that under American Law, it technically illegal to service or install equipment without a license. 

 

In all honesty though, a fan motor should be reasonably simple to DIY, especially if you have electrical experience. It would probably be better to try and retain a motor at the same HP/RPM - as the fan blades will have been designed with this in mind. I'm not suggesting a catastrophic "blade throw,"* but more to do with how the fan moves air with the blade pitch and so on.

 

* I suppose 26 years worth of year in, year out operation might fatigue the blades, but I've only ever heard of such a failure in Australian-style ducted-split units, who used plastic fan blades. 

 

[estesguy]

I would stick with the 825 RPM, but there would be no harm in going up to a 1/4 HP replacement motor. It might make finding one a bit easier as well. It could also help the motor last longer, as 1/6 HP seems very small for a large fan blade. RPM determines air flow across the coil, and thats all engineered into the unit. So yeah, so its a good idea to stay with the same RPM

 

[bwoods]

before getting a new motor

I had a condenser fan motor lock up. This is not uncommon with them being out in the weather as the bearings can dry out and cause the motor to go into rotor lock.

Go over to your friends house with some "Fast Break", "Break Away" or other brand of penetrating oil. See if the blade is hard to turn by hand. If it is and the motor still hums, it is probably salvageable.

Soak the bearings well with the penetrating oil. Spray a little on the bearing and it will get drawn down into it, then put some more on and keep doing this until the bearing won't suck anymore oil in. In between soakings, turn the fan blade by hand (power off, of course)

Eventually it will ease up and rotate without binding. Mine was in rotor lock and when I got done I could twirl it with one finger and it would coast on its own. It worked fine then for several more years.

If this doesn't work, check "Burden's Surplus" online as they often times have HVAC motors. I got one from them for my blower in the air handler a few years back, for a very reasonable price.

I am assuming you checked the capacitor or changed it out first. If the blade twirls fine but the motor hums loudly and turns slowly or not at all, its probably the capacitor. Get one on Ebay with two day shipping and your back in business.

If the rotor is locked or binding go the penetrating oil route. If you get it going with the oil, I would still recommend a new capacitor soon. They are cheap and it will just prevent problems later.

If you do install a new motor ALWAYS put in a new capacitor with it...ALWAYS.

BTW, I wouldn't use regular WD-40. Its not designed to be a true penetrating oil that breaks down corrosion. However, WD-40 does have a new Penetrating oil Call "Specialist, Rust Release Penetrating Spray with Blue Torch Technology." I tried it and is not too bad.

 

[volsboy1]

That fan is at least 42 inches it's one of the largest Hvac fans I have seen ... The 4 blades are so shallow though cut wise.. 

I do have the model number of the unit ... The Amana  it is OLD ..  The # is Model    PG830C0702D 

Manufacturer is P1213604C ..

The thing can barley keep it at 77 inside the house but that is because she as not had the outside coil cleaned..I feel no air moving when I put my hand above the fan..

It's only at the very tip where it comes out..I also took a flash light to it and could not see no light on the other side of the coil..

I thought the same thing when I saw it was a 1/6 H.P. that seems way to small for such a large fan..

Who made these Old Amana .. I have never seen one like that ever save for that one...

No it runs and spins fine for now but you can hear that rattle and I know that sound ....

Don't worry Barry I will be changing that Cap also and putting some of my coil acid to eat away all that gunk on there....

 

[bwoods]

fan OK

That's good her fan is rotating. But while you are there, as a preventative measure, you might want to squirt a little lubricant into her bearing.

As far as the coils go. "Blast-A-Clean" is the best cleaner I have used. It forces an unbelievable strong aerosol stream into the coils. It's not easy to find over the counter, though, anymore. I think AutoZone used to carry it. Now you its hard to find except at HVAC supply dealers.

http://www.americanhvacparts.com/p-...d-room-air-conditioners-ground-ship-only.aspx

Nu-Calgon makes "Nu-Blast" which you can get on Amazon. I haven't used it, so I can't vouch for it, but it looks similar in nature to "Blast-A-Coil."

The acid cleaners are expensive. As an alternative what I do is dissolve dishwasher detergent into very hot water and put it into a garden sprayer. You might try this. Pump it up as high as you physically can and then shoot it between her fins. Let it set for a while.

As it soaks, the enzymes while help to dissolve and loosen some of the sludge. Then you can rinse the coils off with a garden hose. I haven't had much luck with the foaming low pressure coil cleaners. I tried to use them at the Habitat Store I volunteer at. And they only cleaned the surface of the coil but didn't do well at dissolving or loosening the deeply embedded gunk between the fins.

[The Habitat store manager had been running the HVAC units (heat pumps) without any filters on the air handlers. So the coils were really caked with black mold and hardened gunk. The store manager was too cheap to spend the 20+ for Blast-A-Coil from Grainger's. I estimated it would take about four cans minimum for the two 3 ton air handlers in the store.

So my buddy and I took two days of using a garden sprayer and coil brush to try to get enough gunk and mold off the A-coils to get some airflow.]

Of course an electric powered or gas powered pressure sprayer will do the trick the most quickly if you have one. I have done that on my outdoor unit. The pressure so high you may not need a detergent.

If you don't have a pressure washer or a garden pump sprayer you might try a hand sprayer. I used a little hand pressure sprayer that I got at "Dollar General" for four dollars (no kidding, four bucks). It even has a brass nozzle. You can hand pump it to a fairly high pressure and set the nozzle for a strong direct stream. It dislodged dirt between the coils fairly well. (By the way don't forget to turn all power off first!!)

It's great you are helping someone out this way, you are a good friend!!

 

[sambootoo]

Any way you could get us a pic of this unit? Sounds interesting!

 

[supersurgilator]

Thats what I was just gonna ask, post a pic! What is happening that you think the motor is dying if it is still spinning. Does it slow down or stop after awhile? I agree tho stick with the exact same motor and RPM. There are too many things that can get thrown off if the fan spins faster or slower than it is supposed to.

 

[tolivac]

Other thoughts to the condensor fan motor--Is the motor mounted upright with the fan and motor shaft facing upward?Make sure you install the plastic "slinger" disc on the motor shaft under the fan blade.Slingers are usually packed with new motors--USE IT-if you don't your motor will fail early and the new motor warrantee will be invalid.The slinger keeps rain and snow out of the motor top bearing.I have learned this while servicing units at radio stations and freinds houses.You can work on the units all you want-the license thing is if you are going to purchase refrigerants.The Freon base refrigerants require a license to purchase.Earlier it was purchase all you want!

 

[askolover]

Sounds like

the same design as my 2000 Amana gas packaged unit I have in my house, that same big fan with low pitched blades. My motor is 1/5hp and 825rpm. I don't know about hers, but mine was made in Fayetteville, TN by Goodman Mfg. Mine has a Copeland scroll compressor and lifetime stainless heat exchanger. My old unit was poisoning me which is why I got one with stainless in it and the lifetime warranty. As I said, I don't know who was making them back then. Goodman has two plants here in TN...Dayton and Fayetteville... and they still make Amana's in Fayetteville and probably a few other names too.[this post was last edited: 8/12/2015-05:37]

Quality, Durable Heating & Air Conditioning Systems From Amana

Searching for a reliable company to provide durable, quality heating and cooling systems in the market? Call Amana to enjoy comfort at your home or office.

www.amana-hac.com