cphifer5115
Well-known member
Hey guys, just wondering what would cause the agitator to not spin as fast as the tub in a WP/KM belt drive washer?
Question about WP/KM BD
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It is completely normal depending on the year and model somewhat.
sears9000
Well-known member
In a WP/KM washer, the agitator is in neutral during the spi
When the timer advances into the drain cycle, the solenoid on the wigwag shifts the transmission into neutral. At the same time, the water pump is engaged and pumps the water out. After the tub is drained, another solenoid on the wigwag will engage, and cause the spintube,and inner tub to drop down on the drive pulley, and release the tub brake which starts the tub spinning. During this time, the agitator remains in neutral, which allows the agitator to freewheel during the spin. I may be wrong on this part, but I believe that due to the spintube surrounds the agitator shaft, the spintubes momentum causes the agitator to turn while the tub is spinning. As far as how fast it freewheels, it varies by machine.
I hope this helps you understand now. However if I have missed anything, or if I'm wrong, I hope our experts who have had more experience than me, will fill in the blanks for you. Have a nice day.
When the timer advances into the drain cycle, the solenoid on the wigwag shifts the transmission into neutral. At the same time, the water pump is engaged and pumps the water out. After the tub is drained, another solenoid on the wigwag will engage, and cause the spintube,and inner tub to drop down on the drive pulley, and release the tub brake which starts the tub spinning. During this time, the agitator remains in neutral, which allows the agitator to freewheel during the spin. I may be wrong on this part, but I believe that due to the spintube surrounds the agitator shaft, the spintubes momentum causes the agitator to turn while the tub is spinning. As far as how fast it freewheels, it varies by machine.
I hope this helps you understand now. However if I have missed anything, or if I'm wrong, I hope our experts who have had more experience than me, will fill in the blanks for you. Have a nice day.
cphifer5115
Well-known member
well guys when i got this machine over a year ago, the agitator would spin just as fast as the tub. but watching it now in the last 3 or 4 months it doesn't seem to spin as fast. i'm not that concerned about it the machine hasn't missed a beat since i got it but i've noticed that fabric softener is spraying out while it's spinning i can see it on the tub ring while the machine is spinning.
Chris -
I hate to say this, but one of the things that can cause the agitator to not spin with the basket is the amount of lubrication on the T-bearing. It rides at the base of the spin tube. If the spin tube is spinning, it picks up the t-bearing and the agitator along with it. BUT, a few times when I was learning these machines, I put too much white lithium on the surface of the bearing, thinking I was doing a good thing, and then the agitator would not spin much if at all. Turns out there was too much lubrication there, if you want the agitator to free-wheel that is. Later I saw in print where Whirlpool said not to do that...
In your machine's case, my guess would be, and this is what I hate to bring up, that this machine too may be leaking down the center and getting the t-bearing wet.
There may be other culprits, but this was my first instinct for this situation.
Gordon
I hate to say this, but one of the things that can cause the agitator to not spin with the basket is the amount of lubrication on the T-bearing. It rides at the base of the spin tube. If the spin tube is spinning, it picks up the t-bearing and the agitator along with it. BUT, a few times when I was learning these machines, I put too much white lithium on the surface of the bearing, thinking I was doing a good thing, and then the agitator would not spin much if at all. Turns out there was too much lubrication there, if you want the agitator to free-wheel that is. Later I saw in print where Whirlpool said not to do that...
In your machine's case, my guess would be, and this is what I hate to bring up, that this machine too may be leaking down the center and getting the t-bearing wet.
There may be other culprits, but this was my first instinct for this situation.
Gordon
Non Spinning Agitator
Chris the first question is how old is the washer you are talking about ?
Chris the first question is how old is the washer you are talking about ?
John,
I've seen Chris' washer before - its a 1980-ish Whirlpool standard capacity, in Gold if memory serves, unless he's using yet something else. Is that right Chris?
Gordon
I've seen Chris' washer before - its a 1980-ish Whirlpool standard capacity, in Gold if memory serves, unless he's using yet something else. Is that right Chris?
Gordon
cphifer5115
Well-known member
yeah it's a 1981 haverst gold whirlpool
model: LHA6700G1
serial: J10394175
model: LHA6700G1
serial: J10394175
agitator spin
My agitator sometimes spins nearly as fast as the tub, sometimes quite more slowly, and there are no leaks at all. I always accepted it as normal behavior, it's been that way at least 2.5 years of steady use. And I can hold the agitator still while the tub does it's fast spin, no problem.
My agitator sometimes spins nearly as fast as the tub, sometimes quite more slowly, and there are no leaks at all. I always accepted it as normal behavior, it's been that way at least 2.5 years of steady use. And I can hold the agitator still while the tub does it's fast spin, no problem.
The agitator really isn't supposed to be stationary or slow as compared to the spin - at least not in more recent machines - as this would negate the usefulness of the agitator mounted softener dispensers. These take for granted that the agitator is going to spin fast enough, and consistently so, to fling the softener solution to the outside of the dispenser wall and hold it there until the machine stops for rinse fill.
Usually clothes will take the agitator for a ride for a while until the basket accelerates enough that clothes are pressed to the sides and are no longer touching the agitator. What I've seen is that when there isn't enough 'grip' between the t-bearing and the spin tube, OR the other components between the spin tube and the agitator shaft, the shaft will not spin at tub speeds, and the agitator then slows down, or rotates intermittently.
When I quit putting grease on the surface of the t-bearing, my issues with this stopped, at least the issues that I was creating. From that point on, I have left the collar of the t-bearing as dry as possible. When the centerpost leaks, oily, detergent and softener laden water will coat this area and make it at least temporarily slick.
Mark - there is a significant difference between your 1960 WP and Chris' 1981. The centerpost is 5 inches shorter in the '81. Unresealed machines eventually loose their centerpost seal through use and wear, and water much more readily will escape under the 81's agitator. Your machine, having been re-done and re-sealed by you not that long ago, probably does not have that problem yet.
The rub though in all this is that when the agitator doesn't spin fast enough or at all, it wears the seal(s) even faster than if they were all traveling at the same speed, thereby hastening the wear even more.
I believe conditions internal to the transmission can cause some resistance on the agitator shaft as well, but not in a healthy transmission.
Gordon
Usually clothes will take the agitator for a ride for a while until the basket accelerates enough that clothes are pressed to the sides and are no longer touching the agitator. What I've seen is that when there isn't enough 'grip' between the t-bearing and the spin tube, OR the other components between the spin tube and the agitator shaft, the shaft will not spin at tub speeds, and the agitator then slows down, or rotates intermittently.
When I quit putting grease on the surface of the t-bearing, my issues with this stopped, at least the issues that I was creating. From that point on, I have left the collar of the t-bearing as dry as possible. When the centerpost leaks, oily, detergent and softener laden water will coat this area and make it at least temporarily slick.
Mark - there is a significant difference between your 1960 WP and Chris' 1981. The centerpost is 5 inches shorter in the '81. Unresealed machines eventually loose their centerpost seal through use and wear, and water much more readily will escape under the 81's agitator. Your machine, having been re-done and re-sealed by you not that long ago, probably does not have that problem yet.
The rub though in all this is that when the agitator doesn't spin fast enough or at all, it wears the seal(s) even faster than if they were all traveling at the same speed, thereby hastening the wear even more.
I believe conditions internal to the transmission can cause some resistance on the agitator shaft as well, but not in a healthy transmission.
Gordon
Direct drive units have the "agitator clip" (a plastic cam that sits atop the basket drive block with a clip on the agitator shaft to anchor it) to help insure the agitator rotates at full spin speed. I don't think the piece will work on a belt-drive machine, but perhaps something similar could be devised.
sears9000
Well-known member
Thank you Gordon for remindind me about the T- bearing.
Gordon is right about that. I had forgotten about the T-bearing completely since I haven't had a Kenmore belt drive washer in a while. Years ago, I had applied grease to the one in my family's 68 800 washer due to that whenever it would spin on high speed, it made this terrible loud squeal when the basket would start to spin making you think it was the belt, when it wasn't. The grease solved the noise problem, but the agitator was turning real slow during the spin. After cleaning the excess grease off of it, the agitator resumed turning at a faster speed. I hope this will be an easy fix for your machine.
Gordon is right about that. I had forgotten about the T-bearing completely since I haven't had a Kenmore belt drive washer in a while. Years ago, I had applied grease to the one in my family's 68 800 washer due to that whenever it would spin on high speed, it made this terrible loud squeal when the basket would start to spin making you think it was the belt, when it wasn't. The grease solved the noise problem, but the agitator was turning real slow during the spin. After cleaning the excess grease off of it, the agitator resumed turning at a faster speed. I hope this will be an easy fix for your machine.
Slow Turning agitator in a BD washer
Glen while they didn't come out with the clip and cam until this problem resurfaced with DD washers with regard to fabric softener not dispensing properly, I think it may work on the older BD machines, it would fit, you always seem to come up with the correct answer, YAY.
Glen while they didn't come out with the clip and cam until this problem resurfaced with DD washers with regard to fabric softener not dispensing properly, I think it may work on the older BD machines, it would fit, you always seem to come up with the correct answer, YAY.
Glen's agitator clip
Seems like these would work on a belt-drive, like John said. I believe the basket drive block in all DDs is the same as the one used in large cap BDs, and the agitator shaft surface is the same, even the same diameter.
Is there a notch or groove these lock onto in the agitator shaft? If not, they'd work on a BD easily.
Gordon
Seems like these would work on a belt-drive, like John said. I believe the basket drive block in all DDs is the same as the one used in large cap BDs, and the agitator shaft surface is the same, even the same diameter.
Is there a notch or groove these lock onto in the agitator shaft? If not, they'd work on a BD easily.
Gordon
cphifer5115
Well-known member
would anyone know what that part number would be for the DD? I have an old DD machine out at my mom's that I could get the part off of and try it and see if it works. If it were to work I would want t replace the part for the DD machine i have in storage.
#7 = 3354845
#8 = 8543666
