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And I understand, and share your concerns, particularly about getting some more choices in terms of political parties <br
But how will that happen, if the Republicans win again <br
We are in total lockdown politically, as it stands. In a Democratically-controlled Congress, the party can then be purged. Setting up a new structure can only happen with partisans from the old traditional Democratic party, and, frankly, with the money they can bring <br
If we keep the same thugs in office, there will just be more of the same.
 
rickr

Marriage is a religious institution between a man and a woman. It always has been and always will be. Gay partners can simply have a will made up so that the surviving mate will be protected. Looks like a lot of people are getting upset here over politics,so I will shut up about it now that I have put in my two cents. Peace. Don
 
<blockquote>Marriage is a religious institution between a man and a woman.</blockquote>Not true. Legal marriage can occur without the man and woman having stepped foot into a church or looked into the face of a priest or pastor or other member of a religious institution.
 
My Solution... <br
Since gay folks CAN get married in some denominations, let's just get the government out of the "sacrament sanctioning" business altogether. <br
Everyone (regardless of gender pairing) would apply for a civil union license from the government. If you want to get "married" you have to find a religion that suits your particular flavor. After all, there's something for everyone <br
I think that this approach would actually increases the number of people getting married in a church instead of just going to city hall. <br
And it's true separation of church and state. <br
Anyway, that's what I think they should do. As someone who is not at all religious, it works for me. <br
 
Did someone call me?

Sorry oldwasherguye... You are so wrong. No church has the right to discriminate against anyone. One does not even need a church, or clergy to marry.One does not even have to believe in God. Religion has tried to highjack marriage, along our government. Nice try, but no dice. It won't work. In fact the religious rights power over the republican party is coming to a end. And not a moment too soon. Because most of the American people are sick of them, and that includes most republicans too. They also highjacked the republican party, and left it as a tragic wreck <br
Btw... What decade are you living in? Ever heard of Massachusettes <br
Yours
Rick <br
 
Damnit, why can't I just shut up?

<font size=2>Post# 164475-11/1/2006-18:24 ||| oldwasherguy (ladson sc.
rick <br
Marriage is a religious institution between a man and a woman. It always has been and always will be. Gay partners can simply have a will made up so that the surviving mate will be protected. Looks like a lot of people are getting upset here over politics,so I will shut up about it now that I have put in my two cents. Peace. Don</font <br
See, that's where my perspective changes and I disagree. The government made marriage a legal institution, and defined it as being between a man and woman, which is what everyone (including myself) believes nowadays. Yet another aspect of them getting into everyone's pants, which is how all the arguing and controversy over gay marriage rose in the first place. From a straight person in a religious point of view, I don't really see marriage as between a man and woman...it can apply to anything/anyone. In a political point of view, however, my belief is and will always be different. <br
As far as that whole "separation of church and state" issue is concerned, it needs to be applied HERE. Everyone will be happy at last and, while someone will always argue about soemthing, they will have less to argue about. It would not hurt my feelings if the government severed all ties to the word "marriage" completely and left it up to the churches. However, regarding OTHER examples of separation of church and state, there's really no benefit in that; marriage is, in my opinion, the only sole benefit out there, unless someone can come up with something else. Frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of religious icons being removed from government buildings, trying to remove the words "Under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, etc. The fiasco in Alabama (I believe) about the Ten Commandments statue being taken away from a courthouse REALLY got my blood boiling. Damn the ACLU.
 
Hi Austin <br
I used to attend church services every week. I was catholic for most of my life, then became lutheran. I stopped attending church as I was tired of all the terrible things the churches say about gay people. And it only gets worse all the time. So I made the choice to stop going where I was not wanted. (love the sinner, hate the sin) That sort of talk for example. Now I say, "love the Christian, hate the church" <br
With all due respect, I made the choice of seperation of church and me. The church has no place in our government either <br
The civil war is still going on Don? Just to let you know that the war ended over 100 years ago.
BTW: The north won <br
What century are you living in anyway? <br
Rick <br
 
I try really hard to stay out of politics and religion, but.

~Marriage is a religious institution between a man and a woman. It always has been and always will be <br
Brings to mind a song- "Nothing is forever but the Earth and sky...dust in the wind..all we are is dust in the wind..&quot
Ashes to Ashes, dust to dust. LIFE is short. Only love counts. <br
Anyhoo... Wishful and rigid thinking
Those who don't bend (in their thinking, too) break <br
Actually same-sex marriages took place in the early Christian faith and before that. <br
And the ONE thing that remains with me, as clear as heck, from taking standardized multiple-choice tests:
ANYTHING that says "ALWAYS" or "NEVER: is FALSE 90% of the time.

http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/gaymarriagerite.html
 
I love you you love me, it's Homosexuality.

Excerpt from article in linkie: <br
According to his publisher, Boswell "irrefutably demonstrates that same-sex relationships have been sanctioned and even idealized in Western societies for over two thousand years." He has also "restored" a rite that could be used in contemporary homosexual marriages, should they become legal. <br

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9411/articles/darling.html
 
The words 'under God' were actually added to the Pledge of Allegiance long after it was written---at the start of the cold war, if I remember correctly. Removing that phrase would actually restore the Pledge to its original form <br
 
any lefties out there?

Just like it can be said conditions are for gays today, being the minority then (i.e. left-handed) meant you were to be put to death at the stake for beign evil. <br
After all, the majority were right-handed, and only THEY were loved by God. I mean COME ON , it was a self-evident truth :-p <br
Now does anyone even THINK about being left-handed? <br <br
Sing it sisters- "We are FAMILY".
One day our time will come...and our agenda will FINALLY catch on.. In the meantime can I gets me a copy of dat? <br
(ducks and runs <br <br <br
 
I believe in the live and let live philosophy.But you guys have got to look at gay marriage from a straight mans point of view,it makes them sick and they see it as athreat to the moral fabric of society. Can anyone see where im coming from here? In the end when all the votes are in,the majority wins and everybody has to live with it. And dont hate on the south we almost won! Don
 
"defined it as being between a man and woman, which is what everyone (including myself) believes nowadays.&quot <br
More nonsense. Who is "everyone" then? We wouldn't be having this friendly, open-minded discussion if that were the case. If we put the religious basis for such beliefs aside, what would be your objection to your neighbors being a same-sex couple? Would they affect your relationship with your chosen partner? Would they be in charge of defining what constitutes a marriage to your children or would you teach them as you believe?
 
yea rickr

I got me a confederate flag on the front of my truck. It looks so hillbilly goin down the road with a wringer washer in the back. Don
 
Up until the early 20th century, marriage was a financial arrangement (usually pre-arranged by the parents) for zillions of years to maintain family wealth, property rights and power. "Love" didnt really have much to do with it. The catholic church didn't want their priests to get married so they didn't have to share his possessions with wives or heirs, even though priests and gays had been married/blessed in ceremonies in the early church. All "marriages' should be "legal unions" for gay or straights so everyone is entitled to the same CIVIL rights - like the 1000 benefits (yes there are 1000 that can be documented) that straight people have by being married, and take for granted, but are impossible to re-create in a will or other single legal document at any price. If a religion wants to ban people from participating in their particular ceremony, then fine. But the government should stick to legal issues.
Sheesh
SteveD (recovering catholic)
 
and oh

"A threat to moral society"...... Didn't happen to catch the divorce statistics lately? Or the number of married "str8" men cruising on Cragislist or Gay.com for anomomyous partners?? "I'm not gay, my boyfriend is"? Apparently that doesn't count......
Yikes!
 
Learning

Gansky,I'm glad you pointed out that this has been,by and large,a friendly and open minded discussion.I think that speaks well of us a group.I realize some may think this is not the place for such a topic,but I think it allows us to get to know each other better..
Tom
 
Almost won?? Really Don... It wasn't even close! What history book are you reading <br
And so what if me and my boyfriend make some rednecks sick? Why should we be denied our rights, just because someone three houses, or three states away does not like it? It's just too bad for them. We really don't care <br
About gays threating straight peoples marriages? Oh thats the best one yet Don! With all due respect, I think the straights have been doing a lot of damage to the marriage for many years, without any help from gay people. I mean what is YOUR divorce rate now? Like 70% the last I heard.
I think the gay community just might have a few pointers for you straights on sucessful relationships Don. We will keep you guys in mind, once we have gay marriage available for everyone in all fifty states <br
remember.... Equal rights for al <br
 
Wow the drama continues doesn't it. Let's continue to have an intelligent conversation and be nice please <br
<i>No church has the right to discriminate against anyone.</i
Hi Rick, actually while we agree on 99%, this is one point that I do disagree. A church is nothing more than a private club, and it should have every right to discriminate and keep out anyone who it does not agree with as long as it is in no way connected to anything to do with the public or the government. I don't agree with churches having a tax free status, they are no different than anyone else and should pay their fair share <br
<i>The fiasco in Alabama (I believe) about the Ten Commandments statue being taken away from a courthouse REALLY got my blood boiling. </i
Austin, I'm curious why is it necessary to have the Ten Commandments being displayed at the Alabama Supreme Court? Does it help in some way, you must think it does some good, I'm just wondering what that is? I would like to understand your point of view since it is completely foreign to me <br
<i>I believe in the live and let live philosophy.But you guys have got to look at gay marriage from a straight mans point of view,it makes them sick </i
Don getting a legal will does not give Neal and I the same protections that you and wife receive from both the state and the country. All we want is the same protections for our family that you have, nothing more. <br
Now don't get me started on this north/south thing, now for my truck, see my "Proud to Live in a Blue State Sticker", that's my "rebel flag", YAY for the North, bring on the snow! ;) - Sorry as a proud true Blue Northerner I couldn't resist :) LOL
 
Hi Robert, perhaps I was not clear in my what I said. Am fall cleaning the upstairs while posting <br
What I mean is no church should be able to keep anyone from getting married. In their church yes, of course. However not by a J.P. or by any other way <br
In other words, I do not think it is any business of any church, if I choose to marry another man. Although they can say what they may, they should not have any say so in the matter <br
BTW: I really am trying to be nice. <:
 
Ahh Rick I see what you meant, and yes we are in 100% total agreement. A church or club has no right to tell anyone who they can or cannot marry, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot do for that matter unless we are a member of that specific organization. I have absolutely no desire and neither does Neal to have any church recognize our marriage, we couldn't care less, when it comes down to it we simply need the legal protections that come with civil marriage.
 
The Supreme Court held that the Ten Commandments can be displayed in the context of our Judeo-Christian tradition. For instance, how they are portrayed in the United States Supreme Court building - as part of our rich legal heritage. <br
But when displayed as a specific endorsement of Christianity (or used for tacky political grandstanding, masqueraded as defense of Christianity, as Judge Moore did) that's not appropriate. <br
What's funny about the Ten Commandment memorials is that a good deal of them date from the 50's, when the movie studio that produced "The Ten Commandments" donated them to towns across the country as publicity for the movie. Prior to that time, people had gotten along just fine without them. <br
As far as the ACLU goes, they have a strong conservative tradition as well. Once you get to know about them - as opposed to listening to the likes of O'Reilly, who just use them as a lazy talking point - you learn that just about every group in this country, including Christians, have turned to the ACLU for assistance. Supreme Court Justice Anton Scalia - hardly a flower-weaving hippie - is a member of the ACLU. <br
Sorry if I'm a bit sarcastic here, but I don't speak disrespectfully about people's beliefs - especially when I know nothing about them - so it's hard for me to take such sweeping statements seriously <br
If you don't know your history, you're bound to become a victim of it.
 

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