Question To Ponder - Could Any Vintage Frigidiare Washer Meet Today's Energy Standards?

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

If the early Unimatics were re-introduced, and used only one rinse instead of two, allowing the optional second rinse the way contemporary models do, they would indeed pass the federal regulations. Such machines would efficiently wash 10 pounds of laundry in 20 gallons of water.

The '47 GE uses only one rinse, and it has been mentioned by the Head Washerman many times that the first rinse on his 47 Unimatic is already clear, as is the ONLY rinse on his 1100+ rpm '47 GE. It would be just disingenuous to discount such incontrovertible data.

The engineers may have designed the Uni with two rinses out of kindness, mercy, intelligence, or respect for the landslide majority of American women who had just evolved from wringer washing where two rinses were the ancient standard.

There is no urgent need for the second rinse to automatically occur; other brands did not have one. Despite their spray rinses, they lost the rinsing contest with slow spin speeds. Also noteworthy of consideration is the fact that a Frigidaire can successfully negotiate 10 pounds of laundry. Half the fun of using one is the sheer joy of watching it gobble down the load.
 
Speed Queen's current top loader for domestic service, uses 39.1 gallons of water for 3.3 cu/ft (according to specs from SQ listed on AJ Madison's website). Speed Queen's PR rep states most energy star top loaders run about 33 gallons, give or take. This give us plenty of wiggle room for a decent "sumberged" wash in a "new" Frigidaire Jet Action machine, but some tweaks will have to be made in other areas.

As I've said, and will keep on saying, the simplest method is to take a page from F&P washers, and offer a series of spray rinses as the default in the normal cycle. It is the normal cycle that has the Fed's and tree hugger's knickers in a twist because they realise that is the cycle most users will go to first. As one has seen with numerous washers being sold today that have that silly "Energy Star" label slapped all over, work arounds can be added to give the results most people want, to get around the stingy "normal cycle".

As with F&P washers, one or even two deep rinses could be offered as an option instead of the spray rinse. If one added some sort of optical eye to sense water clarity, the machine could spray rinse until rinse water is clear. If consumer reporting type magazines are correct, sensor equipped dishwashers actually use more water than those without, therefore we may assume that a washer so equipped could probably deliver better rinsing from a well designed spray rinse system, than one with just one deep rinse.

Over flow rinses are not required, but spin drain would be useful, and of course the famous Frigidaire 1140 rpm final spin speed would match most domestic front loaders sold in the United States today. Indeed if I remember by physics correctly, because of the larger drum on say an "1-18" type Frigidaire unit, laundry would actually come out dryer than with a small 11lb front loader.

If Americans weren't so against using 220v power in the laundry room, a heater could be installed to boost 110F water to say 120, combined with ATC of course.

L.
 
Don't forget - total water usage is only part of the energy picture. A washer that uses just five gallons or less for the wash part of the cycle will use much less energy to heat water for a warm or hot wash, than a washer that uses 10 gallons or more for same (big toploaders can use up to 20 gallons for the wash part of the cycle). And heating water is the biggest energy cost in washing clothes - hence the popularity of dumbed down warm and hot water settings on some models, and the push for cold water washing. This is where a front loader eats the lunch of a traditional top loader.
 
<blockquote>A washer that uses just five gallons or less for the wash part of the cycle will use much less energy to heat water ...</blockquote>Which is where the Calypso comes in. :-)

Or F&P's EcoActive wash process, which by engineering that as the default wash selection and providing *options* for a hot-fill traditional wash, they get EnergyStar-labeled and the consumer gets a choice of two washing methods in a single machine.
 
Federal Standards.

I did some preliminary calculations and I couldn't find a way a Unimatic (even the Super Unimatic 2.0) can be Energy Star compliant, based on water usage. I didn't even get to energy usage. I did not count suds saving or modified cycles, however. Instead of searching for Energy Star compliance, I am now searching for Federal compliance.

The formula to beat for Federal energy use requirements is as follows:
Capacity (in cubic feet) / (energy used by the washing machine) + (energy used to heat water) + (energy used for drying) = at least 1.26 (this is the Modified Energy Factor, or MEF)

As for water usage standards, what is the minimum allowed amount of water per cubic foot of capacity? I don't know where to find it.
If feasible, an internal water heater that is more energy efficient than the household average may actually help the washer's efficiency ratings. 220 volt washer anyone, or even an internal gas heater!? Imagine a washer with electric, water, and gas hookups, oy! Also, what would use less electricity over the course of a cycle to power the washer, a 110 volt motor or a 220 volt motor? If it's 220, then maybe using 220 for the washer and a gas dryer might, theoretically, be in order.

Any thoughts on the matter? Also, what is the capacity of a Unimatic in cubic feet? Same for the Super Unimatic 2.0 with its bigger tub?

The link is to the Energy Star requirements which mentions the MEF (Modified Energy Factor) requirements for both minimum Federal standards (> or = 1.26) and Energy Star standards (> or = 1.72).

Time to crunch some numbers and thanks,
Dave

 
new train of thought....

I was wondering why Whirlpool didn't resurrect the "Filter Stream" system, used in their '57-'60 Washer-Dryer combinations.
For the uninitiated, these machines would utilize a recirculating spray during the wash and rinse cycles, instead of the tub filling with water.

I wouldn't mind seeing this (or a variation) in use today.
 
Let's think out of the box a minute...

<font size = 4>I’m about to show you guys and gals how I can wash 10lbs of clothes in a solid basket top loader using ONLY AN AVERAGE OF 16 GALLONS OF WATER PER WASHLOAD, filling the tub to the rim with water and having not one but TWO full deep rinses!</font>

First here is the machine: (Click here for the entire patent)
earlyfrigidaire.jpg


I want to share with everyone this primitive Frigidaire design from the mid-1930's. Frigidaire had designed many different prototype washers but this one is particularly pertinent to this thread. Its quite an advanced machine for its time. It uses an agi-tub style agitation, where the tub agitates the clothes, but the agitation vanes are mounted to the tub as opposed to the center agitator column. It has a special knob that allows you to select between 1 and 20 minutes of wash time. The tub oscillates back and forth for washing and rinsing and of course it spins to throw the water out of the tub and wring out the clothes. (Click here for the entire patent)

Let's imagine that I have five 10-lb wash loads to do:

1. White Load
2. Queen Sheets and Pillow Cases
3. Mixed Colored Clothes
4. Mixed Colored Clothes
5. Blue and Black Jeans (5 total)

I’m going to start with the white wash:

There are three separate 10 gallon reservoir tanks at the bottom of the washer, the user (our housewife, meaning me :) ) manually fills the left reservoir with 10 gallons of hot water and the center and right reservoirs with 10 gallons cool or cold water each. As I'm filling the reservoirs with a hose once the reservoir has reached the full 10 gallon level a signal light illuminates on the front of the machine telling me that the reservoir is full and I can move on and fill the other two reservoirs until their respective "full" signal lights come on.

Next I add my white clothes and soap to the wash tub.

I set my washing time, let’s say for 12 minutes and pull down on the front handle to start the washer.

Here is what the washer does automatically next:

#1 It starts the suction pump and pulls the hot water out of the left reservoir (water reservoir #1) and fills the tub.
#2 It agitates the clothes for the variably set wash time (12 minutes in our example here).
#3 Then the timer tells a solenoid to shift the machine into spin. The water is thrown out of the tub into the trough that surrounds the tub and all of the water is directed via an electric diverter through the pump and back into the left water reservoir where it originally came from.
#4 The tub stops spinning and the pump pulls the first rinse water out of the middle 10 gallon reservoir (water reservoir #2) and pushes it up into the tub.
#5 The tub agitates back and forth for a few minutes for the 1st rinse.
#6 The machines then shifts back into spin and spins the first rinse water into the trough and the diverter directs this water down the drain.
#7 The tub stops spinning and the pump pulls the second rinse water out of the rightmost reservoir (water reservoir #3) and pushes in into the wash tub.
#8 The tub agitates back and forth for a few minutes for the 2nd rinse.
#9 The machines then shifts back into spin and spins the 2nd rinse water into the trough and the diverter solenoid directs this water down back into the middle 1st rinse reservoir.
Total water usage: 30 gallons.

I take my nice very dry clothes out and go hang them on my line (god forbid). I return to my basement where my second load of wash is ready, one of my two colored wash loads.

Now since we still have two full reservoirs of water (soapy-wash and 1st rinse) and all I have to do now fill my 2nd rinse reservoir again with 10 gallons of fresh water. The soapy-hot water in my wash reservoir has now cooled down to a point where it’s just soapy-warm water and perfect for my 2nd color load. So I start the washer and add just a little bit more soap. The washer reuses the soapy wash water and then reuses the slightly cloudy but still clean 2nd rinse water from the previous wash load in my colored load's 1st rinse. Then for the final rinse it uses the clear fresh water! The machines again does all the same steps saving both the wash water and last rinse water for the next load.
Total water usage: 10 gallons.

Now for my third load I want to wash color load #2. So once again I reuse the soapy-wash and rinse water and only need to fill the final rinse reservoir.
Total water usage: 10 gallons

Now for my fourth wash load, I’ll wash the sheets so I will drain the left soapy-wash water reservoir and refill it with fresh clear hot water. Wash the sheets using fresh wash water/detergent and fresh final rinse water, but reuse the last rinse water for my first rinse.:
Total water usage: 20 gallons

Finally my fifth load of wash, the Jeans. I reuse my cooled down to warm hot soapy water from the wash, rinse water and refill my final rinse reservoir with 10 gallons of fresh water.
Total water usage: 10 gallons

TOTAL WATER USAGE FOR FIVE LOADS: 80 Gallons, 80 / 5 = average 16 gallons per 10lb wash load, not bad, quite good actually and you get true deep rinsing twice with high speed spinning between the wash and rinses!

Since I am now done with all my washing for the day I set the special water dial to "drain" and drain all three reservoirs into the standpipe or sink to dispose of.

Now of course for our 21st century version of this washer we could make many enhancements. Like:

1. Make it a pulsator agitator machine
2. Computer controlled.
3. reservoirs automatically fill themselves
4. You could tell the computer how many wash loads you are planning on doing and in which order so the computer could decided to save the wash water or save the 1st water instead to be used for the next wash load. The computer would always save the 2nd rinse water to be used for the first rinse.
5. Some loads are not really dirty at all and all the water could be reused.
6. For the mechanicals modern DC motors and components could be used to really save electricity.
7. Use a filtering system to filter all the water.
8. Have only one deep rinse but have a 10 gallon overflow rinse and save those ten gallons that overflow back into 1st rinse reservoir for the next wash.

I can think of many others, what about you guys/gals how else could you enhance this type of machine to save even more enery?

Oh here is the cycle chart from the patent:
earlyfrigidaire_timechart.jpg


Oh one final thing I forgot to mention about this design is that since the tanks filled with 30 gallons of water, that is ALOT of extra weight. This machine does not have much of a suspension system but would be rather stable because of all that extra weight at the bottom of the machine. So in other words this machine would not vibrate very much which of course is another positive!
 
Hey Merry Prankster

the pdf's load but the pages are blank

this is tremendous
there have been urban rumors about reservoirs inside of old washing machines
your GE actually allows the re-use of rinse water
your manuals section has directions for saving suds in the Unimatic, or by inference, rinse water since the method is the same
people sometimes get uncomfortable about re-using water, so I keep it a secret, but i always re-use the Frigidaire's rinse water for another load, and recycle water in most of my machines--all the time. I seem incapable of following this procedure: "Load it, set it forget it."

Most of the members keeps their hoses out of sight, untouched behind their machines. Once you start taking your hoses out and moving them around, the water saving possibilities are endless.

Thanks for another riveting masterpiece, now go fix the pix.
 
Hey Mike, I can see the pdf's just fine when I click on them, both here at home, on my mac and at work. Are you opening them with the adobe reader?

A washer that uses just five gallons or less for the wash part of the cycle will use much less energy to heat water ...
You know correct me if I'm wrong, but I have to say that a washer that uses five gallons of hot water in its wash cycle is not really washing in hot water, because the cold clothes and metal will cool down that water from 140 to 100-110 in just a few minutes. I've tested the water temperature in my Super Unimatic and 12 gallons of hot water go from 140 to 105 in 20 minutes when I don't use the water heater. Five gallons is much less water than the 12 and will cool even faster. Of course you can use a booster heater, but this will take quite a bit of energy to keep the water temperature up and not all of these machines have these heaters.
 
working on spray rinse efficiency

Under tundra conditions here as is most of the North, I'm not using the garage- residing Frigidaire for a few days because, although she is happy to pump away, it's too cold for me.

The question: How long will it take for a Frigidaire to effectively spray rinse a load of wash?

Issues:

#1. The Uni spins at 1140, or less, depending on what R tells the computer to do, but it has a circle jet fill system.

#2. The Multi spins at 8oo something but has a wider flume, almost double the width of the standard Unimatic flume. Have noticed that when the water hits the pulsator, there is very dramatic cyclonic water action. It seems as if the water has more force hurling off the pulsator than what the circle jet spray provides.

#3. Wondering if the Super U still has the original flume in place as an option to see if that woks better than circle jet.

Estimating that the Multi will need three minutes to rinse clear-- water usage being 7.5 gallons. Remember that since we're rinsing in a solid tub, the water must pass all the way through the laundry before exiting the inner upper holes.

Predicting very effective rinsing; let you know when the tundra goes.
 
Mike the wider of a fan spray pointed directly at the clothes the more effective it is. When I check the "Extra Softening Rinse" box on the computer interface for the Super-Unimatic, instead of a 2 minute overflow rinse the computer gives a 2 minute spray rinse and no overflow, this allows the fabric softener not to be diluted by the overflow rinse. When the spray rinse first starts you can really see the sudsy/cloudy water coming out of the clothes, but by the end of the two minutes the water that is hitting the glass on the side of the cabinet is usually nearly clear. Two minutes is more than enough or about five gallons.
 
Hi Robert ... very ingenious! Also, very much like a wringer wash but with a lot drier load and a lot less "sloshing" on the floor!! :-)

The trick with wringer washing is to use the 2nd rinse water as the first every other load with the final rinse always being clean water. I guess that's why those machines were on casters; you could move them from tub to tub (if your tubs were stationary).

That sounds like a machine that makes sense for today's world; if people would only take the time and not be "put-off" by reusing wash water. With a little care, wash water can be reused.

I don't hesitate to drain my wash water, however, when I feel that it has served its purpose.
 
Hi geoff hi robert

when you posted those amazing colored computer programs last summer for all the cycles you've set up for the Super Uni, I thought I studied them carefully. I ate them up. That's the stuff i love, so how did I miss or mis-read? Oh well, getting old. I thought you first deep rinsed without an overflow, THEN sprayed in the softener. If you've successfully spin-rinsed in 2 minutes, then the debate is over. The Unimatic can complete a load in 15 gallons. Maybe you could link that thead for the newbees or to re-treat the oldies, if you've a mind to it.
 
when you posted those amazing colored computer programs last summer for all the cycles you've set up for the Super Uni, I thought I studied them carefully. I ate them up. That's the stuff i love, so how did I miss or mis-read?
Hey Mike, you didn't miss read, just things have changed quite a bit since then. I'm forever updating the cycles/ software. Its works even better than six months ago.

If you've successfully spin-rinsed in 2 minutes, then the debate is over. The Unimatic can complete a load in 15 gallons.
That's the spray rinse, I still think it needs a 9.5 gallon rinse as well for total and completely rinsed clothes. I'm absolutely insist on thoroughly rinsed clothes.

So I'm not sure if this is going to work, but I took the code for the Super Unimatic and stripped out the DLL coding to send a receive messages to the washer so it should work on any Windows based PCs without a Unimatic Washer connected. Sorry Mac people, I don't know how to code for the Mac (at least not yet). So try this out and see if you can run the SuperUnimatic on your computer. Click the link below and select Run...

Guys/Gals let me know if this works...
Super Unimatic Demo Program (click here and select Run)

If you get the program running, click on the cycles and you can see the steps, be sure to click some of the wash and rinse options checkboxes to see the cycle steps change. If you click start and actually start the washer running, when the timer dial bar gets to a function that begins with Est Time (that means Estimated Time) the computer waits to hear a signal from the washer before it moves the timer bar along. So just double click on the next step to continue on with the cycle. Make sense?
 
Bummer, I have a Mac,

but i can check the archives for the summer time thread; it was huge, wonderful, and oh so satisfying.

Can I make my Mac do Windows?
 
Wow, very interesting! Question -- there appears to be a third box on the main screen that is not displaying on my system -- does anyone else see it?

I wish some company made their machines hackable so we can play with the various functions. iRobot does this, encouraging customers to modify the command set, they even make an adapter available to program the vacs from your computer.
 
Matt I realized that the reason you cannot see the whole screen is because the program is written for a certain screen resolution.

If you change your montior settings to 1280x1024 you should be able to see the whole screen. (Under Settings/Control Panal/Display, you select the Setting Tab and select 1280x1024.

If I get some time later I will try and see about adding scroll bars to that screen so lower screen resolutions can see the whole thing by scrolling down.
 
mickeyd, yes you can make your Mac do Windows

I'm running OS/X Leopard and you can either do one of two things.
1) using BootCamp, boot up in XP (assuming you have a copy to install)
2) use Parallels (it's a virtual engine) and you can run XP in a virtual engine window.

Yes I'm having the same issue, I'm not seeing the whole screen, however what I see...I think it's AWESOME!!!!
 
Thanks, Davy

I'll just run out to the Apple store. You make a half hour appointment, and those guys can do anything and they are so amazing and good natured, you almost think they had to pass a "Wonderful Personality" test to get the job.

Later, Dude ;'D
 

Latest posts

Back
Top