Questions for rollermatic experts

[firedome]

Maybe you could defray some of the expense

by having a small run of 5-10 made then sell them to those needing one, might take some time but in the long run pay for itself. I did that with some machined aluminum knobs for a Harmon Kardon Citation II preamp, a friend in VT with a CNC machine made them for me and I sold them to others as they were otherwise unavailable, in the end I actually made some $$ on the project. Didn't exactly make a killing, as I just sold them at a very small profit, but it paid for mine and then some.

 

[philr]

I visited quite a few machine shops today... All but one refused to reproduce it... One accepted, at a relatively high price, (but I understand there is some work involved in doing that!). The unitary price would have been much cheaper if I had bought 10 but still a bit too much to justify having any extra done without knowing how good they will be... The bushing itself will cost more than what I paid for the washer, but still less than many other new replacement parts for newer washers! I should get it next week...

 

[rollermatic]

ENJOYING YOUR THREAD

and pics and info. as a fellow rollermatic owner i know exactly about how much we will be willing to spend sometimes to keep these machines running.

there are lots of old rollermatic threads on this site including mine that detail a tear down and rebuild. mine were from 2009-2010 if i remember correctly. have not worked on any of mine for several years, gonna get back to it this fall or winter i hope. good luck with yours.

feel free to continue to e mail me if you have any questions.

 

[philr]

I just got the new bushing I had fabricated. I still haven't installed it in the washer. I hope it works nicely!

Here's a small video with the old and the new bushing... If someone needs one, they are not cheap but it's possible to have more...
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[philr]

I repaired it tonight. It was a bit easier than I expected. Did a test wash and it seems to be doing fine! No leaks and no more loud noise during agitation! And I like the 1010 spin! For some reason, I often pour too much detergent when I don't measure it! A bit more detergent could have resulted in something like what happened with the very similar avocado Frigidaire washer featured in Freaky Friday!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Final (!) spin... I'll need to search for another one with the extra rinse feature!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
To press the bushing in the spin shaft, I just used a bolt at the end of the agitate shaft and I used it as if it was a slide hammer. It worked great. [this post was last edited: 5/1/2012-00:26]

 

[joelippard]

Good Job!

Glad you got it repaired rather easily. Could you tell us how you removed the old bushing? Looks as if you didn't even need to remove the clutch in order to do this.

 

[joefuss1984]

sounds and speeds

Did you change the speed on it or is it supposed to start out that slow and spin up faster?

 

Also is that noise normal, I know sounds become distorted through the computer and have never seen one of these up close but it sounds kinda like a loose rattle or something to me?

 

Cool looking machine!

 

[turquoisedude]

Great job Phil - finding someone who is willing to custom-built parts is always good!!  

 

[philr]

Joe,

I just had to use the agitate shaft, I first tried to get it out but the lower end of the agitate shaft was tapered and wouldn't get out of the top bushing (the lower one didn't cause a problem because it was so worn!). So I didn't remove the shaft completely, just pulled it out of the lower bushing, turned it about 90° from it's original position and used it to hit on the key ways of the bad bushing and it went out of the spin shaft without any further damage to the agitate shaft or to the bushing itself. But then I had to grind the end of the agitate shaft so I could remove it from the upper bushing without damaging it. That required some patience. I used a small file and also tried with 100 grit sandpaper. I didn't want to damage the shaft so it would wear out the new bushing... The guy who reproduced the bushing at the machine shop also removed some material at the end of the agitate shaft to fit the new bushing as it was still tapered a bit at the end (and inside the grooves).
Before I reinstalled the agitate shaft, I polished it with 1200 sandpaper until it felt smooth (before that, you could hear it "grind" the bushing on the rough surfaces).

Joseph,

I did change the speed manually during agitation as on high speed, with the amount of detergent I used, I would have been in trouble if I left it agitating fast an longer!
But in the spin video, it's how it works when the speed selector is at "Normal". At first, the motor starts in low to empty the tub, then the rollers switch to another set for higher spin speed (and you can hear the solenoid clicking when this happens). After that, the motor gets in faster speed. I didn't check that closely (and I only used this washer twice since I got it!) but from what I understand, the solenoid is constantly energized when the washer operates except when it switches to the faster spin speed.

Paul,

When I searched for a machine shop that would do that. I expected that some would be very expensive but I didn't expect that all but one refused to do the job! So at this point, the price wasn't an issue (well, it could have been but I felt that it was no worse than replacing a 200$ electronic board in a newer washer!).

The good news is, if I ever need another bushing like that, it will be a bit less expensive to fabricate as he also gave me the 3 other parts he also needed to fabricate to make this bushing...

 

[circlew]

Phil, I imagine the reason many shops didn't want to take on the job of making the bushing, is that you only wanted one. If you had wanted a large quantity (hundred +) of them made, you'd likely have had many bidders.

 

[firedome]

Custom made machine parts

as I mentioned I have a good friend with a very fancy CNC machine in his garage, about 5 miles from my cottage. His day job is Mechanical Engineer at IBM in Essex Junction VT, but by night he makes one-of-a-kind parts for Classic cars like Packard V-12 and the like, he had a '32 Cad V-12 himself. He's now into steam engines. Once the CNC is programmed, he can make 1 or 1000 parts just as easily, and if he makes 1 part, he will save the program to disc and can make another identical part very easily. He is also very reasonable price-wise because he's a hobbiest too.

Very nice work Phil... let's hope the next one won't need all that!

 

[joefuss1984]

Cool!

Thanks for the explanations, would be cool to see the mechanics operating on one of these

 

[joelippard]

Mechanics.

This is brief but here is a video of a similar machine (also a Rapidry) running in the agitate cycle

 

[bobbyd32l]

Gorgeous!

Your machine is absolutely gorgeous! I love that style and someday hope to have a few Frigidaires in my collection! I want a Unimatic with the control tower, your machine and a 1-18! Keep that machine clean and running like a top!

 

[jetcone]

PhilR!!!

I am impressed no end! What a great job you did! A new bushing that works just great! And Firedome we should keep your machinist on hand at all times too!

This is a great thread! Its good that it will be archived for future reference, and whoever owned that washer as new certainly got their moneys worth out of it!!! Never seen wear that great on a rollermatic before!

 

[firedome]

wonder how much demand there is

for this part, I know I can get it made in any quantity if they are needed.

 

[jetcone]

Well I threw out

many rollermatics in the 80's when I was repairing them and I had just turned the agitator nut to hard and stripped the bushing out. I wish I had had access to these bushings back then.

This was such a cool repair!

 

 

[kb0nes]

PhilR, I just saw this thread. Neat to see you get a bushing made!

I manage a small short run and prototype machine shop. We specialize in one-off and engineering prototyping and specials. We have 3 CNC machining centers and a CNC lathe as well as a plethora of manual machines for odd jobs.

Our shop would have been a "no bid" on this part also. That particular part is a VERY expensive part to make due to the two internal keys. We don't have anything in house that could do the internal details.

When these parts were made originally they would have been internally broached with a custom ground broach to remove all the internal material that isn't those two keys. Broaching is a fairly quick method of forming odd internal features (like squares, hexs or internal keyways) but a custom tool must be manufactured for each part so it is expensive for prototypes.

One other old scook method would be to use a shaper which strokes a single point tool through the bushing removing that material. No custom tooling is needed, but it is slow going.

The modern way would likely be to wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) where a thin wire is fed through the part under tension and it sparks its way to "saw" out the unwanted material.

Do you have any idea how your bushings were made? Its quite nice that the shop gave you the custom fixturing or tooling too. A different shop/machinist may approach the part differently so it would be best to return to the same shop for more if ever needed.

One bit of advice for anyone contracting custom machining, in most cases it makes sense to buy several parts. The setup and any custom tooling or fixtures are a big part of the cost of a one off part. Buying two or three parts will amortize those costs across more parts. So if anyone would ever use them down the road, more may be better!

In any case, great job and doing what it takes to preserve history and keep the machine running. Bravo!!

 

[philr]

A former Frigidaire technician had told me he had these bushings custom made by a machine shop in the 1970s but that they were evey expensive back then.

I had a hard time finding someone who wanted to do this one and he told me that making many of these would require a different process to make the unitary cost down but that it would still be quite expensive.

It was an experiment for me as that bushing did cost a lot more than the washer itself (including the money I spent to get it!).

And the bushing wasn't made to the exact tolerances of a new bushing. I did use this washer for a few months after and it was fine but I was wondering if the machining would have reduced the self-lubricating quality of that porous oiled bushing.

 

[kb0nes]

Indeed those are expensive bushings no matter what. The internal/external details make them hard to machine from stock.

It is quite likely that back in the day these bushings were a cast part. Material would just be forced into a die and out pops the bushing. Making them by the thousands that really would be the only sensible way.

As for the durability of the bronze after machining, it shouldn't change. The material is consistent throughout and machining just exposes a fresh layer. Machining tolerances and surface finish are more important regarding wear and durability. I'm not too impressed with the overall appearance quality of the part they made, but then again they did make one and it is a difficult part, so kudos to them!

The other consideration is that there are about 25 or so (some magically proprietary) alloys of various bronzes. Picking one with the right properties for the speed and loading of the application is important too.