Quick Way To Get 220 Volts?

[dj-gabriele]

I would never use such a thing because it can't work with a GFI, I would feel very unsafe without one! It is compulsory to install one since 1968 here in Italy!!! I don't like the tought of being electrocuted from my washing machine...

 

[MrX]

Same here!

RCD (GFCI) protection has been obligatory on all circuits feeding sockets/outlets, water heaters, shower pumps/heaters, central heating systems, and bathroom fans/lighting etc in Ireland for quite a long time. Certainly since the 1970s anyway. There's no question of not using RCD protection on any socket outlet rated less than 32A (230V).

We install the RCDs on the distribution panel, and they typically protect a number of final distribution circuits. So, you'd have a single RCD protecting a line of 16/20A breakers feeding the outlet circuits.

We don't mix power (outlets) and lighting circuits. In older installations, non-bathroom lights would simply be on 6A or 10A breakers without an RCD. The logic was that RCDs in their earlier days were physically bulky and expensive devices and would take up a lot of space on the board. They wouldn't have been installing more than one or two of them and it was considered rather dangerous to plunge a whole house into darkness if the RCD tripped. So, lighting circuits were exempted from the rule.

With the advent of RCBOs (combination of an RCD (GFCI) and an overcurrent (breaker) in a single module it's become a lot easier to provide full RCD protection on all / most circuits.

All of my appliances are RCD protected, and I have never had any issue with 'false trips'. The only things that do cause the odd RCD trip are the kettle and the iron, and that's for good reason i.e. when water manages to get into the electrical parts!

Also, I found it very reassuring that when our dishwasher developed a leak and water got onto the pump motor, the power was tripped on the circuit.

 

[MrX]

As for DC power---

There are advantages to using it for sub-sea cables and very high voltage bulk power lines. The systems have been under development by ASEA of Sweden, now part of ABB (Asea Brown Boveri) since the 1930s and have been in use in parts of Europe since the 1950s.

The wiki article below explains it all :

High-voltage direct current - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[toggleswitch]

~with two wires marked 300v

This is the maximum rating by wire-maker, not necessarily what it actually carries.

~and two separate 220v lines provide power to her box...
Amd with such heavy-duty energy supplied, I'm sure she can use it longer, harder, more often and do nore things with it. YAY to increased utility!

 

[toggleswitch]

~As for using a European appliance in the US on a hot-to-hot supply, it shouldn't be a problem, but it's not designed for that type of supply. You would invalidate the warranty at the very least...

I'd think the 50 vs 60 cycles /Hertz/frequency difference would affect motors.

One of the problems with 220v over two "hots" is that a ground-fault (short-circuit among others)could, in theory energize a portion of a "switched-off" circuit with 110v.

(Mostly kidding I don't know lady L, maybe you need a natural gas generator in your case to get your coveted 220v. As long as you vent it out of a window you should be OK.......*LOL*

 

[launderess]

Indoor Use of A Generator

Don't even make jokes about that, really is much too dangerous.

Just last month a family out in Long Island was cut off by the electric company, so the father went down to one of the places he works and obtained a petrol run generator. The man hooked the unit up indoors and ran it to provide power, sadly during the night carbon monoxide produced from the generator filled the house. The eldest son was killed, with the rest of the family, including several wee ones was in hospital in very critical condition indeed.

Now many in the area, media blamed the electric company, but it turned out the family had just moved into the home, and over a period of almost one year had only paid one electric bill. LIPA did send a representative to the home to secure some sort of payment or make arrangements, but sadly guess the family couldn't do anything, thus the power was cut that day.

Personally I blame the person who gave the man the generator in the first place. What sort of person loans a man such an appliance without warning him about the dangers, especially knowing the man has a wife and young children at home.

Really all is too sad

L.

 

[launderess]

GFI Circuts

IIRC on this side of the pond, code requires only certian circuts in bathrooms, kitchens and perhaps anyplace else there is a chance one would come into contact/use electrical appliances near water or while wet. Even for the kitchen IIRC, code requires only that outlets near the kitchen counters/sinks be GFI, not say a wall outlet near the fridge or some such place.

Have used washing machines, dryers, and even ironers/irons on non-GFI circuts for ages, and am still here to tell the tale.

 

[launderess]

~and two separate 220v lines provide power to her box...

Well now that one knows those wires may not be 220v, am going to suggest she call in an electrican to test. IIRC her fuse box states something like "3 pole, 600volt" on the inside cover. Sadly the information is written on a paper lable that is partly obscured by sloppy paint work which dripped inside the cover over the years as the walls were painted. Cannot make out weather the box says 120v or 220v. We know the building has 220v power, since it is an elevator building and have never heard of an elevator running on 120v.

When speaking to an electrican friend of ours,he told us that it is not uncommon for people to "rig up" various ways to get 220v power without ripping out walls/installing new service boxes. He did say that if one knows what one is doing and is careful about things, on a limited bases things like the Quick220 could be a solution.

While many think nothing of totally remodeling their apartments in rentals, or even co-op buildings, the fact remains that if the lease states it is verboten, and you do it, it can cause big trouble. Also as stated in other threads, electricans aren't cheap in this area. A simple 220v outlet installation can run anywhere from $1000 to $3000. More towards the higher end if ripping out a fuse box and replacing it with a new circut breaker panel,than simply adding a new 220v circut/breaker to a panel that has room and proper wiring.

All of this is even if one can get an electrican. With the construction boom going on, most would rather spend a day on a building site making big money, to doing a "simple" job like a 220v outlet.

Many people have no idea how old much of New York housing stock is, and how that age relates to modern day living. I've lived in buildings where the gas lighting pipes not only are still in the walls, but work as well! One neighboor in such a building couldn't understand why her gas bill was so high, considering the only thing using gas was the stove, and she didn't cook that much. Finally the gas company came out to find the source of the trouble. Sure enough the gas pipes for lighting were still active.

Being as all of the above may, many NYC residents consider their homes, their castles and make drastic renovations. We're talking new kitchens, bathrooms and yes electrical work. One can argue that such work increased the value of the apartment so a landlord should'nt complain. However the courts have been quite clear on the matter, if such work violates the lease, then the person is O-W-U-T, out.

 

[MrX]

European appliances in on US Hot-to-Hot supply

From a wiring point of view, you should be safe enough. Unlike in the US, European appliances are all designed to be operated safely in either polarity. European plugs (both grounded and non grounded types) can be inserted in either polarity. The approach taken here, rather than polarising the plugs and outlets, was to ensure that appliances could operate safely in either polarity.

The reasoning behind this is that in the 1930s, when these standards were fixed, there were some supplies on hot-to-hot and others on hot-to-neutral 220V 50Hz. So, polarity was really a non-issue.

When a standard Euro CEE 7/7 plug is used in a CEE 7/4 socket (German style outlet) it's polarity is random.
When the same plug is used in a CEE 7/5 socket outlet (French style) it's fully polarised.

The UK and Ireland use a different system, where we only have 3-pin plugs. They can only be inserted one way, so they're always polarised.

The reality is it doesn't really matter either way, so if you're using a European appliance on a US supply, you should be ok from the point of view of polarity.

The risks are the fact that it's a 60Hz supply and also that the voltage may be too high. Your supplies are officially 240V +/- ??%. They may be slightly too high voltage for some sensitive 230V appliances and may burn things out.

I'd suggest using a multimeter across the terminals of a US 240V outlet and checking the actual voltage supplied before connecting a Euro appliance!!

Here's a European CEE 7/7 16A grounded plug (Grounding is via the strips at top/bottom (German style) or via a pin which mates with the hole on the front (French style))

 

[MrX]

CEE 7/4 (German style) socket (the most common type)

CEE 7/4 'schuko' outlet - this is the most common type found right across Europe, except the UK, Ireland, France, Belgium, Denmark and Switzerland.

16Amp
Grounded via those clips on the top and bottom.
Fully recessed (you cannot touch live pins on inserting the plug)

 

[MrX]

CEE 7/5 (French style) - Polarised, Grounded 16A outlet

Here's the French style 16A CEE 7/5 outlet (polarised) - The same plug fits this outlet.
It's found in France, Belgium, parts of Eastern Europe and is being introduced in Denmark to replace a unique Danish system to harmonise with the rest of Europe and Scandinavia where CEE 7/7 is used.

 

[MrX]

UK and Ireland 13A BS1363 system

The UK and Ireland use a different standard, BS1363 (13Amps) .. each plug is also individually fused !!

 

[MrX]

Here's the UK/Ireland socket outlet

Here's what the socket outlets look like in the UK/Ireland
(note the pins of the plugs are sheathed to prevent contact with fingers)

All of the European systems generally use shuttered outlets. However, the UK/Ireland system has had them as standard since its introduction in the 1950s, so they are universal. Older 'schuko' and French outlets may be unshuttered. However, they're all recessed, so you can't touch the pins while inserting the plug.

All of the above systems are very solid, safe and robust.

So, that's your little tour of the major EU electrical connection systems that might be used for plugging in your washer or dryer this side of the Atlantic!

 

[toggleswitch]

My understanding of US code is that refrigerators and freezers MAY NOT be on GFIs in that nuisance tripping would cause repeated economic losses of contents to owner of said appliances.Actually I don't even think washers are allowed/recommended on them, but I may be wrong.

~What sort of person loans a man such an appliance without warning him about the dangers, especially knowing the man has a wife and young children at home.

You assume people have the sense to know that any unvented conbustion source indoors is unhealthy. (Yes Veg that includes gas stoves!) But with so many new-comers to this country from the turd-world, or agricultural-society mentalites (i.e. stuck in the 1600s)is it any wonder
that BBQ grilles now state on prominently visible abels: "For outdoor use only"?

A friend from such a country has been in the USA for two decades. He rents his basement out for extra cash to make the bills. I had to explain to him that the tenant had placed a tray of (VERY COMBUSTIBLE) varnish and brush right in front of the oil burner's air intake port. First of all you don't leave VOCs around and you don't put combustibles near flames.

I mean McDonalds got sued becaue a ditz put a cup of hot coffee between her legs while driving and got a free bikini area waxing. Did she not expect it to burn?

SKEPSOU
(THINK!!!!)

People still commit crimes becuse the concept of repercussions follow actiosn is still a mystery.

 

[launderess]

It isn't just unvented sources of carbon monoxide, but people not keeping their boilers/heaters in good repair.

Every heating season it never fails to find at least one or two news reports per month on average regarding a family/person where death occured because the boilers/heaters weren't inspected/functioning properly. Add to these the deaths from people using improperly installed/functioning wood stoves, fireplaces, propane fueled appliances (yes I know propane shouldn't be indoors, but apparently there are those who hold a different opinion), and so forth.

A winter ago,in reaction to an entire family being wiped out by carbon monoxide (faulty heating system), which came on the heels of several earlier deaths of the same cause NYC finally mandated carbon monoxide and dioxide "smoke detectors" in all multifamily homes including apartments. Problem is that in lower income homes people swipe the batteries out of the units for use elsewhere and do not replace them. IMHO hardwired systems would be a better way to go, but that is expensive in existing construction.

L.

 

[neptunebob]

Oh, I better duck and run!

Laundress, maybe you ought to suggest that your friend move to a better-wired apartment, maybe in -- Jersey?!

Also about the GFCI outlets, the device not only protects the outlet itself but every outlet "downstream" of the device. Since an American home can have several of these devices installed since the 80's, most of the outlets may be protected.

 

[launderess]

It is not a question of "better" wiring, as one has friends living in older homes from Maine to West Virginia who have the same problems. Older homes/buildings were built to serve the electric power needs of the time. Even homes built as late as the 1970's can still have puny electrical service for today's needs.

Consider also how inexpensive consumer goods have become and you also begin to see the problem. When I was growing up, having one colour television was considered grand, two really posh, but today most homes have one almost every room including the bath!

Case in point, a girlfriend of mine and her husband bought a farmhouse in upstate New York. Now I call her "Lisa Douglass" because she is the typical Manhattan trendy jet-set type. Any way, she and the family haul every single mod-con including crate loads of European and quasi commercial household appliances, only to find that in most instances, just like "Green Acres" the place was wired back in the 1930's and handn't seen an upgrade since. Electrican had to call his father and grandfather too look at the wiring as he had never seen/worked with such things. Bottom line is the couple spent many thousands ripping out/upgrading the electrical system.

Same thing happens in NYC, especially in older buildings. Landlords aren't going to go through the expense and bother to upgrade the electrical system unless they are sure they can recoup the costs in rent increases. I've also been to older houses in Queens, Staten Island and Brooklyn that though antiquated, the electrical system works for the current owners. If anyone wants it upgraded, they can do it when they purchase the house, so the thought goes.

L.

 

[travis]

Electrical needs...

Seriously, how much electric do we need to use? My last house was built in 1911. It had a 100 amp panel that the previous owner had just installed. The whole house was knob and tube wiring that was sparse. I installed central a/c on each floor, two units. In order to do so, I switched to a gas stove and gas dryer. The boiler and water heater were already gas. I later rewired the kitchen and that maxed out the panel. Not because of the load, but because of code. There doesn't need to be a separate 20 amp breaker on everything in the house.

The whole house ran fine and only blew a breaker when I plugged in a faulty piece of vintage electronics. I have a dozen old radios, another dozen vintage tv's, a popcorn machine, four or five vintage fridges, etc.

The thought that our electric needs have increased so much is largely in our heads. We just want more convenience. I would rather have a nicely wired 1960's house that a competant electricain did that a new house that someone wired now.

It's also sad that people die from improper use of an appliance, but if I die from running a generator in the house, so be it. Consider it natural selection!

 

[alr2903]

Launderess

Cimberlie I hope your frined gets her 220 the quick way, and the safe way by hiring a qualified electrican, to provide the service she is interested in, this thing just seems dangerous to me. If this converter thing burns the house down, realize her insurance might not even cover her loss. Just a thought, alr2903

 

[skip]

my step down-up transformer

this is what i use for all of my foreign appliances it works wonders for only costing a total of $115.00