I've always wondered about them, any differences between the plain 'Whirlpools' that preceded and superseded them, or just a marketing thing? anyone have any 'RCA-Whirlpools' out there to post pics?
RCA-Whirlpool?
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bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Why was it that in the 1990s there were some obvious GE built appliances that had an RCA label on them?
Complex story
In 1955 Whirlpool bought several other companies. One of them was the Estate Range Co. of Hamilton, OH, which was a division of RCA. As part of the agreement, Whirlpool got the right to use the RCA trademark on their entire line of appliances for a period of about ten years. Whirlpool closed the Estate Range factory in 1961, and Whirlpool ranges were made by Roper at their Newark OH plant for several years. Other companies they acquired in 1955 were Seeger Refrigerator Co., and Birtman Electric Co. As with anything concerning Whirlpool, Sears was involved.
Now to answer Keith's question. RCA and General Electric have a relationship going back about a century. RCA was partially owned by GE, Westinghouse, and AT&T, and affiliated with NBC and RKO Radio Pictures, in its early days. In the early 1930's, it became an independent company, but in 1986, GE repurchased the company. Around thst time, they decided to add an RCA appliance line to their existing GE and Hotpoint brands.
In 1955 Whirlpool bought several other companies. One of them was the Estate Range Co. of Hamilton, OH, which was a division of RCA. As part of the agreement, Whirlpool got the right to use the RCA trademark on their entire line of appliances for a period of about ten years. Whirlpool closed the Estate Range factory in 1961, and Whirlpool ranges were made by Roper at their Newark OH plant for several years. Other companies they acquired in 1955 were Seeger Refrigerator Co., and Birtman Electric Co. As with anything concerning Whirlpool, Sears was involved.
Now to answer Keith's question. RCA and General Electric have a relationship going back about a century. RCA was partially owned by GE, Westinghouse, and AT&T, and affiliated with NBC and RKO Radio Pictures, in its early days. In the early 1930's, it became an independent company, but in 1986, GE repurchased the company. Around thst time, they decided to add an RCA appliance line to their existing GE and Hotpoint brands.
RCA Whirlpool was a marketing/name partnership between RCA and Whirlpool. Didn't involve any mechanical change other than the labeling.
GE had hands in RCA radio products from 1919 to 1930. GE owned RCA again for one year-ish, 1986 to 1987.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
The years with Jack Welch at the helm were certainly dynamic and how quick GE seem to start a descent after he left.
Yes, after Whirlpool bought out Estate Stove they could do what they want with the name. Companies will often repurpose names for a new, but related, product line.
Yes, after Whirlpool bought out Estate Stove they could do what they want with the name. Companies will often repurpose names for a new, but related, product line.
probably a big deal back then of promoting that RCA and Whirlpool were linked.....where a lot of times you get brand loyalty from consumers....
as in the 1958 RCA Whirlpool Imperial Mark XII washer and matching dryer with
Revolutionary New Automatic Fabric Control....available in decorator colors....Better Home Appliances....for Better Homes...
takes you back to the 70's commercials, while others were just a mere microwave....if it doesn't say AMANA, its not a Radarange!...
as in the 1958 RCA Whirlpool Imperial Mark XII washer and matching dryer with
Revolutionary New Automatic Fabric Control....available in decorator colors....Better Home Appliances....for Better Homes...
takes you back to the 70's commercials, while others were just a mere microwave....if it doesn't say AMANA, its not a Radarange!...
reactor
Well-known member
GE and Neutron Jack
General electric's decline started when Jack WAS at GE. Anyone can make the books look good by selling off divisions and infusing money cash into the company. But the destruction doesn't become self-evident immediately.
Pretend you have a house built upon a foundation of valuable marble blocks. You decide to sell the marble blocks....block by block to get cash. All of sudden you have hefty bank account and you appear to be wealthy and successful.
You take some of the money from the selling of the foundation and you dress up the house with new paint, shutters and other fancies. Everyone oohs and ahs at you saying what a smart person. He is loaded with money and his house stands out over everyone else's.
With each block you pull out, the foundation upon which your house is built gets weaker and weaker. It is not evident right away, but over time visible cracks appear....then the walls start tumbling down.
Welch was smart, he got out of the house at just the right time before the cracks appeared. This way he could blame his successors on their mismanagement of the GE.
In reality, Jack is the one who destroyed GE's by divesting the very core industries that made General Electric. Now GE's very foundation is gone, the company has fallen down. The current CEO is trying to pick up the remnants and do what he can with them.
With those remnants, GE is now splitting up into three companies in an effort to survive its death throes. Only one of the three companies remaining will be "General Electric" and that is the jet engines/aviation division.. . The GE we all knew is now gone with the wind.
General electric's decline started when Jack WAS at GE. Anyone can make the books look good by selling off divisions and infusing money cash into the company. But the destruction doesn't become self-evident immediately.
Pretend you have a house built upon a foundation of valuable marble blocks. You decide to sell the marble blocks....block by block to get cash. All of sudden you have hefty bank account and you appear to be wealthy and successful.
You take some of the money from the selling of the foundation and you dress up the house with new paint, shutters and other fancies. Everyone oohs and ahs at you saying what a smart person. He is loaded with money and his house stands out over everyone else's.
With each block you pull out, the foundation upon which your house is built gets weaker and weaker. It is not evident right away, but over time visible cracks appear....then the walls start tumbling down.
Welch was smart, he got out of the house at just the right time before the cracks appeared. This way he could blame his successors on their mismanagement of the GE.
In reality, Jack is the one who destroyed GE's by divesting the very core industries that made General Electric. Now GE's very foundation is gone, the company has fallen down. The current CEO is trying to pick up the remnants and do what he can with them.
With those remnants, GE is now splitting up into three companies in an effort to survive its death throes. Only one of the three companies remaining will be "General Electric" and that is the jet engines/aviation division.. . The GE we all knew is now gone with the wind.
GE just ran the same playbook that Westinghouse used to destroy itself...sell off everything over time to the point of not being to stand on its own (and buy CBS)
To be honest, GE wasn’t really that innovative even if they touted their innovations in their appliances and they knew Whirlpool was outselling their appliances in large numbers since they had a contract with Sears along with Whirlpool’s aggressive marketing such as the films Mother Takes A Holiday from 1952 and The Wonderful World Of Wash N Wear from 1958 and a few other commercials and adds from that era.
One area Whirlpool was ahead in compared to GE was offering gas and electric appliances while GE only offered electric appliances and touted Living Better Electrically was more affordable but didn’t once mention what the cost of electric bills would be. Whirlpool/Sears definitely filled in that niche real quick since again they offered gas and electric appliances since they knew each home had different needs, etc.
One area Whirlpool was ahead in compared to GE was offering gas and electric appliances while GE only offered electric appliances and touted Living Better Electrically was more affordable but didn’t once mention what the cost of electric bills would be. Whirlpool/Sears definitely filled in that niche real quick since again they offered gas and electric appliances since they knew each home had different needs, etc.
The "Revolutionary New Automatic Fabric Control" was a color-coded guide for setting the knobs. Roll the selector wheel to the type of load, then match the color of the choice to the same color on the wash temp, rinse temp, and agitation speed switches*, and the cycle on the timer. Spin speed was controlled by the timer per the selected cycle. It wasn't yet a programmed system like a pushbutton Mark XII or Lady Kenmore.
*A bit of service document I have says that there are six selections on the agitation speed control but only high and low speeds ... three low selections and three high selections, each coded a different color to match the choices on the fabric selector wheel.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
#7 picking on Jack W.
It's always tempting to want to find SOMEONE who's a scapegoat we can blame when things change from what we know.
Jack W. was just doing as other companies did before his reign and as some companies are still doing today. Roger Smith at GM in the 80s, Eddie Lambert with Sears recently, even Mitten's Romney with all the companies he was part of that no longer exist or are significantly different than they once were.
Yes a company like GE's home appliance division, IBM, or Motorola were fun places to work when a new market is launched and it's a success. It's all companies like that can do to fulfill customer demand. Look at Tesla today. Just completing the H-U-G-E Gigafactory in Austin only started in July 2020. They can't build the new models fast enough. GM, F, and FCAU will be lucky if they still exist in 5 years as they're desperately scrambling with their pathetic line-up of vehicles.
When a company has maxed out it's sales and the markets' saturated, it's not as much fun is it? That's when serious decisions need to be made as these huge companies aren't here for memorabilia's sake. I kind of wish they were but ...doesn't work that way. People who've done the research will know how to maximize income from the remaining assets and that's when the public gets antsy. Seeing KB toys, Sears, Kmart, RadioSchack and other companies we once knew thrown on the scrap heap is almost personal.
But it's really not.
It's always tempting to want to find SOMEONE who's a scapegoat we can blame when things change from what we know.
Jack W. was just doing as other companies did before his reign and as some companies are still doing today. Roger Smith at GM in the 80s, Eddie Lambert with Sears recently, even Mitten's Romney with all the companies he was part of that no longer exist or are significantly different than they once were.
Yes a company like GE's home appliance division, IBM, or Motorola were fun places to work when a new market is launched and it's a success. It's all companies like that can do to fulfill customer demand. Look at Tesla today. Just completing the H-U-G-E Gigafactory in Austin only started in July 2020. They can't build the new models fast enough. GM, F, and FCAU will be lucky if they still exist in 5 years as they're desperately scrambling with their pathetic line-up of vehicles.
When a company has maxed out it's sales and the markets' saturated, it's not as much fun is it? That's when serious decisions need to be made as these huge companies aren't here for memorabilia's sake. I kind of wish they were but ...doesn't work that way. People who've done the research will know how to maximize income from the remaining assets and that's when the public gets antsy. Seeing KB toys, Sears, Kmart, RadioSchack and other companies we once knew thrown on the scrap heap is almost personal.
But it's really not.
reactor
Well-known member
Holding Jack resonsible for his actions....
Jack Welsh is 100 percent responsible for the demise of GE. The divisions he sold, GE HVAC, GE Small Appliances, Elano Products (supplied stainless tubing for GE Locomotives0 and eventually GE Plastics to name just a few, were all successful, and all profitable.
Jack Welsh publicly stated his goal was to get GE "out of manufacturing" and make it a "service" company. That is why he sold divisions to get the money to buy his financial service and insurance companies.
GE Finance was his obsession and put most of his efforts into it. Never mind the fact that GE's infrastructure and experience for over a hundred years had been electrical manufacturing.
That is why he ordered the words "General Electric" to be taken off of most of GE's products with only the logo "GE" to appear....to disassociate GE with electricity and electrical products in the public's eye. He dictated the corporate name be changed from "General Electric" to "The GE Company."
His reason for the division he first sold, HVAC, as he told in his autobiography was, "I didn't like HVAC." GE held the lion's share of residential HVAC and a very large percentage of the commercial HVAC market as well.
No Jack did not use analysis teams to decide when and which divisions were to be sold off. Jack would never stood to to others advice He did did what he wanted. He wanted cash to purchase banks and insurance companies. The first thing he did upon purchasing RCA, was to terminate it as a company and sell off it's individual components. Then he licensed out the RCA name to anyone who wanted to pay to use it. At that time he purchased NBC/Universal and GE became the operator of the Universal Theme Park in Orlando Florida. The creator and builder of nuclear reactors, jet engines and steam power turbines was now running roller coasters at an amusement park.
No Welsh, was a man who was trying to make a company into his own image. He grew up as a boy who was picked-on because of his severe stuttering and his small physical stature. Many of those who worked under him described his as having "short man's syndrome." An intense drive to build his ego.
If someone disagreed with Jack, he would often get enraged. After the yelling, if his raged continued to build, he reverted back to his childhood stuttering and had to force out each word one by one.
If you, as an underling, provoked this rage in Jack, the next day you often found GE Security guards at your side as you emptied your desk, and then escorted you out the front door.
Don't attribute any sense of loyalty for GE to Jack. He was there to make a company in his own image and show other CEO's he was a force to be reckoned with. He wanted to prove he was in the big leagues too.
He even changed the GE logo, in the early nineties, to the italicized block letter GE logo you saw on top of the GE corporate tower. I am sure that built his ego even more, now that he got rid of 100 year old logo and replaced it by one that Jack personally made himself.
Public outcry at the loss of the beloved 100+ year old GE logo forced Welsh, in one of his extremely rare reversals, to reinstated the old GE logo. He refused to take it off the GE Tower, though. No doubt each night he looked up at his electrically lit, self-designed giant GE logo lighting the sky and his ego burst with pride.
I tell you the personal things about Welsh so you can understand his behavior and most of all, his motivations.
GE was a rock solid company. It could weather virtually any storm. Even during the Great Depression, GE was one of the only companies to continue to pay dividends.
It had short cycle profit industries such as small appliances. Profits were smaller, but the time from production to profits was measured in days and weeks. Even in times of economic hardships there are weddings, birthdays, Christmas and people buy gifts as well as appliances for their home use.
Even in times of economic crisis people have to heat their homes (GE HVAC), they have to eat (GE stoves, GE refrigerators), they still have dirty clothes (GE washers, dryers, irons)
GE locomotives and power generation were long cycle profit divisions. Profits cycles times may run months to years, but they brought in huge profits. Even in times of economic downturn, the U.S> still needs electricity, we still needed X-ray units, we still needed aircraft engines, and train engines. People still get sick and people still need transportation regardless of the economy. GE had them covered both ways.
Ge's short cycle profit industries leveled out the profit curve in between the arrival of the profits for the GE long cycle industries. A perfect balance. Jack took away those industries.
GE built generators and they built appliances and industrial equipment to utilize the power that they themselves created. How many companies create a demand for their own product? GE did and it served them well for over 100 years.
GE could weather any storm, and did. Until Jack Welsh destroyed GE. When you cut off too many limbs, a tree will die. Jack Welsh cut off most of GE's manufacturing limbs and tried to graft onto the GE tree, banking and insurance limbs.
You can't graft apple tree limbs onto a Magnolia tree. You can't rebuild a company from the ground up and destroy all its present infrastructure and over 100 years of operating expertise.
No, I am no picking on Jack Welsh. I am holding his responsible for his actions. Whether I or anyone else has sentimental value for GE is an irrelevant point.
GE is dying and Jack Welsh is the cause. GE weathered every storm, WWI, WWII, the Great Depression, but the one thing it couldn't weather was Jack Welsh. The man who destroyed it from the inside out.[this post was last edited: 11/24/2021-19:35]
Jack Welsh is 100 percent responsible for the demise of GE. The divisions he sold, GE HVAC, GE Small Appliances, Elano Products (supplied stainless tubing for GE Locomotives0 and eventually GE Plastics to name just a few, were all successful, and all profitable.
Jack Welsh publicly stated his goal was to get GE "out of manufacturing" and make it a "service" company. That is why he sold divisions to get the money to buy his financial service and insurance companies.
GE Finance was his obsession and put most of his efforts into it. Never mind the fact that GE's infrastructure and experience for over a hundred years had been electrical manufacturing.
That is why he ordered the words "General Electric" to be taken off of most of GE's products with only the logo "GE" to appear....to disassociate GE with electricity and electrical products in the public's eye. He dictated the corporate name be changed from "General Electric" to "The GE Company."
His reason for the division he first sold, HVAC, as he told in his autobiography was, "I didn't like HVAC." GE held the lion's share of residential HVAC and a very large percentage of the commercial HVAC market as well.
No Jack did not use analysis teams to decide when and which divisions were to be sold off. Jack would never stood to to others advice He did did what he wanted. He wanted cash to purchase banks and insurance companies. The first thing he did upon purchasing RCA, was to terminate it as a company and sell off it's individual components. Then he licensed out the RCA name to anyone who wanted to pay to use it. At that time he purchased NBC/Universal and GE became the operator of the Universal Theme Park in Orlando Florida. The creator and builder of nuclear reactors, jet engines and steam power turbines was now running roller coasters at an amusement park.
No Welsh, was a man who was trying to make a company into his own image. He grew up as a boy who was picked-on because of his severe stuttering and his small physical stature. Many of those who worked under him described his as having "short man's syndrome." An intense drive to build his ego.
If someone disagreed with Jack, he would often get enraged. After the yelling, if his raged continued to build, he reverted back to his childhood stuttering and had to force out each word one by one.
If you, as an underling, provoked this rage in Jack, the next day you often found GE Security guards at your side as you emptied your desk, and then escorted you out the front door.
Don't attribute any sense of loyalty for GE to Jack. He was there to make a company in his own image and show other CEO's he was a force to be reckoned with. He wanted to prove he was in the big leagues too.
He even changed the GE logo, in the early nineties, to the italicized block letter GE logo you saw on top of the GE corporate tower. I am sure that built his ego even more, now that he got rid of 100 year old logo and replaced it by one that Jack personally made himself.
Public outcry at the loss of the beloved 100+ year old GE logo forced Welsh, in one of his extremely rare reversals, to reinstated the old GE logo. He refused to take it off the GE Tower, though. No doubt each night he looked up at his electrically lit, self-designed giant GE logo lighting the sky and his ego burst with pride.
I tell you the personal things about Welsh so you can understand his behavior and most of all, his motivations.
GE was a rock solid company. It could weather virtually any storm. Even during the Great Depression, GE was one of the only companies to continue to pay dividends.
It had short cycle profit industries such as small appliances. Profits were smaller, but the time from production to profits was measured in days and weeks. Even in times of economic hardships there are weddings, birthdays, Christmas and people buy gifts as well as appliances for their home use.
Even in times of economic crisis people have to heat their homes (GE HVAC), they have to eat (GE stoves, GE refrigerators), they still have dirty clothes (GE washers, dryers, irons)
GE locomotives and power generation were long cycle profit divisions. Profits cycles times may run months to years, but they brought in huge profits. Even in times of economic downturn, the U.S> still needs electricity, we still needed X-ray units, we still needed aircraft engines, and train engines. People still get sick and people still need transportation regardless of the economy. GE had them covered both ways.
Ge's short cycle profit industries leveled out the profit curve in between the arrival of the profits for the GE long cycle industries. A perfect balance. Jack took away those industries.
GE built generators and they built appliances and industrial equipment to utilize the power that they themselves created. How many companies create a demand for their own product? GE did and it served them well for over 100 years.
GE could weather any storm, and did. Until Jack Welsh destroyed GE. When you cut off too many limbs, a tree will die. Jack Welsh cut off most of GE's manufacturing limbs and tried to graft onto the GE tree, banking and insurance limbs.
You can't graft apple tree limbs onto a Magnolia tree. You can't rebuild a company from the ground up and destroy all its present infrastructure and over 100 years of operating expertise.
No, I am no picking on Jack Welsh. I am holding his responsible for his actions. Whether I or anyone else has sentimental value for GE is an irrelevant point.
GE is dying and Jack Welsh is the cause. GE weathered every storm, WWI, WWII, the Great Depression, but the one thing it couldn't weather was Jack Welsh. The man who destroyed it from the inside out.[this post was last edited: 11/24/2021-19:35]
I believe Barry to be correct concerning the downfall of GE.
GE Would Be In The Same Place Today
Even if Jack Welsh was never employed there,
In fact the Major appliance should have been sold 10 years earlier when it was still worth more.
John L.
Even if Jack Welsh was never employed there,
In fact the Major appliance should have been sold 10 years earlier when it was still worth more.
John L.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Interesting
Barry you write as though you either worked for GE, or you have some other personal interest in the pre-1980 GE whereas you can speak for the changes that happened over the decades. Are you stating what was in Jack's book?
I don't have anything for or against Jack Welch. GE has always been a big name and when my parents had their commercial electric business, they frequently sold GE bulbs, ballasts, and fixtures. In the early years they sold GE christmas lights. My parents even received GE stock as an incentive.
Either way, it's been found that many people who elevate themselves to the point of CEO have certain mental traits that would easily get them under the care of a psych ward, and no doubt there have been a number of corporate workers who've found themselves involuntarily detained when their actions were upsetting enough.
As anyone who's been alive for a while should know, it takes a quite a bit to steer the ships that are our lives. To steer the ships of a company takes even more, and to steer and perhaps redesign the largest of vessels truly takes a dedication. I've learned a lot of respect for those who make the wheels of society churn so smoothly. When they make it look easy, it's deceptive.
As much as the media loves drama, no doubt we only hear a small fraction of the dramatics that go on in numerous businesses. Some are privately owned and we can only guess. Even those that are publicly owned have closed doors to the media.
Jack did take a $417 Million severance package when he left in 2001. The largest in history. Think what you will. That seems excessive imo.
I avoid getting involved in the dramatics of corporate culture because it's crazy in there. LOL. Elizabeth Holmes comes to mind. Scary. Filled with people who need to prove themselves to .....someone. Maybe just themselves.
Barry you write as though you either worked for GE, or you have some other personal interest in the pre-1980 GE whereas you can speak for the changes that happened over the decades. Are you stating what was in Jack's book?
I don't have anything for or against Jack Welch. GE has always been a big name and when my parents had their commercial electric business, they frequently sold GE bulbs, ballasts, and fixtures. In the early years they sold GE christmas lights. My parents even received GE stock as an incentive.
Either way, it's been found that many people who elevate themselves to the point of CEO have certain mental traits that would easily get them under the care of a psych ward, and no doubt there have been a number of corporate workers who've found themselves involuntarily detained when their actions were upsetting enough.
As anyone who's been alive for a while should know, it takes a quite a bit to steer the ships that are our lives. To steer the ships of a company takes even more, and to steer and perhaps redesign the largest of vessels truly takes a dedication. I've learned a lot of respect for those who make the wheels of society churn so smoothly. When they make it look easy, it's deceptive.
As much as the media loves drama, no doubt we only hear a small fraction of the dramatics that go on in numerous businesses. Some are privately owned and we can only guess. Even those that are publicly owned have closed doors to the media.
Jack did take a $417 Million severance package when he left in 2001. The largest in history. Think what you will. That seems excessive imo.
I avoid getting involved in the dramatics of corporate culture because it's crazy in there. LOL. Elizabeth Holmes comes to mind. Scary. Filled with people who need to prove themselves to .....someone. Maybe just themselves.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
"In fact the Major appliance should have been sold 10 years earlier when it was still worth more."
Yeah, If Jack was bad, the management that followed in the 00s was horrible. It was like a child playing in a china shop.
Yeah, If Jack was bad, the management that followed in the 00s was horrible. It was like a child playing in a china shop.
reactor
Well-known member
bad management
Agreed. Jack Welsh hand picked Jeff Immelt, his successor. Jack's agreement with Immelt was that he would recommend him for the CEO position if he would continue to follow his transition of GE into a financial service company.
Immelt continued the sell off of GE's division, slowly snipping off the remainder of GE's life giving limbs. By the time Immelt was removed, it was too late. The inertia of GE's downward spiral to destruction was irreversible. No successor CEO could put on the brakes.
So sad that one of the greatest companies in the U.S. history fell at the hands of one little man and his very big ego.
[this post was last edited: 11/24/2021-22:21]
Agreed. Jack Welsh hand picked Jeff Immelt, his successor. Jack's agreement with Immelt was that he would recommend him for the CEO position if he would continue to follow his transition of GE into a financial service company.
Immelt continued the sell off of GE's division, slowly snipping off the remainder of GE's life giving limbs. By the time Immelt was removed, it was too late. The inertia of GE's downward spiral to destruction was irreversible. No successor CEO could put on the brakes.
So sad that one of the greatest companies in the U.S. history fell at the hands of one little man and his very big ego.
[this post was last edited: 11/24/2021-22:21]
neptunebob
Well-known member
About 3 parts of GE
Barry, don't you think now the GE and General Electric name should be on its electric power division? There is nothing electric about a jet engine.
About the logo, I read that back in 1968 a lot of RCA dealers were upset about the change to the block letters they use now from the old RCA logo in the circle. People had known that symbol for nearly 100 years and it was going to be replaced because the RCA top brass thought the new logo was more "hip"
Barry, don't you think now the GE and General Electric name should be on its electric power division? There is nothing electric about a jet engine.
About the logo, I read that back in 1968 a lot of RCA dealers were upset about the change to the block letters they use now from the old RCA logo in the circle. People had known that symbol for nearly 100 years and it was going to be replaced because the RCA top brass thought the new logo was more "hip"
