Re: Tankless Water Heaters:

[SactoTeddyBear]

Hi! Club Friends, I can't remember the Thread Posting that I saw about talking of Sediment causing Water Heaters from Heating as they should. I also had noticed some of your commenting about Tankless Water Heaters. I didn't think too much about them, until yesterday, when a Woman Friend of our Family asked me about them. She is wanting to look into the Tankless Water Heaters, to install in both sides of her Duplex Units that she owns. She lives in one side and her Tenant is her Son and Daughter-In-Law. She likes to update/upgrade both sides with whatever she wants to do on her side, so they will equally have the use of the same for each, besides helping with keeping everything up to current times and Codes.

I would really appreciate any and all info that anyone has that they can help me with. Has anyone looked into these types of Tankless Water Heating Units and have any Units Installed?

Peace and Happiness, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

 

[Cybrvanr]

I frequent a campgroun during the summer that has a Rinnai propane tankless water heater installed. It works very well! One of the issues with tankless water heaters in the past was that the more water you ran, the less warm it was. The Rinnai will vary the amount of heat, so the water stays just as warm at all tempratures. I've been in the shower down there, while people are outside washing dishes at the skink (turning the water on & off) the shower water does not even vary any the slightest in temprature as they rinse off the dishes. The beauty of the tankless water heater too is that the hot water never runs out, even on a busy holiday weekend where the showers, washing machines, etc run practically non-stop.

Rinnai I believe is one of the biggest and most reputable manufactuers of tankless water heaters. They are a bit more pricey than regular tank water heaters, but they are much more efficient, since they don't need to maintain the tank heated. Installation costs run pretty much the same as a tank water heater.

Tankless water heaters also exist in the electric variety too, and are quite small. The issue with the electric ones however is that they take enormous amounts of electricity. You will need a high-power electric service into your house, like a 200 ampere or more line. They are actually more efficient though than a tanked electric heater. Sounds odd, but because the water is heated as it flows through, a tremendous amount of power is needed to heat the water instantly. The savings occurs though because when you aren't using hot water, you aren't burning electricity. In comparason, an electric water tank pulls much less electricity over a longer period of time. An electric water tank needs to run over an hour to warm up enough water for a 5 minute shower.

Here's a link to Rinnai:

http://www.foreverhotwater.com/

 

[Cybrvanr]

...another cool thing

actually a hot thing I discovered after looking at their web site. The Rinnai water heaters have a neat remote control that you can vary the water temprature with, and instantly, the water heater will deliver water at that temprature.

This really has it's advantates. You could set it for around 95 degrees or so for a warm shower without mixing cold water (and thus wasting energy). For doing laundry, you could hike it up to 120 degrees or so, and then for the dishwasher, turn it up to 150 degrees....just remember to turn it back down before you shower again!!!

 

[SactoTeddyBear]

Re: Thank You:

Hi! Club Friends, thank you for the great/fast Reply to my asking about Tankless Water Heaters. I checked out the Rinnai Site and requested some Literature to be sent to me.

I really appreciate the "expedite" replys to help us in knowing more info about these Tankless Water Heaters.

Peace and Happiness, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

 

[bethann]

What if somebody is taking a shower and doing laundry at the same time?

 

[DADoES]

An Envirotech electric tankless is in my new house. I didn't select that brand, or even have any say in the water heater being tankless, it was already in the house, but I've not run into any dislikes thus far. I have it set at 105°F for showering, and do a temporary override as needed for clothes. It has a programmable override period of 15 mins, 30 mins, 45 mins, or 60 mins. I leave it at 105°F for dishes as my DishDrawer always heats the main wash and final rinse to target temps per the selected cycle. The instruction manual makes reference to a remote temp override being available in the future, but I didn't find it being offered yet when I checked their web site a few weeks ago. Not a big deal, it's located in the utility room just off the kitchen, so is easy to access for adjustments.

The digital display reports numerous parameters: set temp, incoming water temp, 1st heating chamber temp, 2nd heating chamber temp, output temp, flow rate, and instantaneous percentage of full heating capacity.

At any particular output temp, the capacity utilitized is moderated by the electronics based on the water flow rate -- run the tap slower for lessened electrical demand. I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe it has four 7,200 watt elements. One drawback is that flow-rate does need to be moderated. There's either a restrictor on the heater itself or on each faucet, they run slower than one normally expects even when fully open.

 

[westytoploader]

Here's my Bosch...

A 2002 AquaStar model. MUCH simpler than a "tanked" water heater to light and adjust, plus the controls are located at waist level. It automatically lights when you turn the faucet on; the change in water pressure signals the pilot light to start the main burner...if you're near it (i.e. starting a load of whites) you hear a loud "WHOOSH!" sound. Very neat to watch the main burner from the tiny porthole as well.

As far as having an unlimited supply of hot water, I can't imagine what going back to a "tanked" model would be like!

 

[brisnat81]

One disadvantage

If you're used to really high hot water pressure,then this could take some getting used to (The ones in AU do anyway)

The flow rate is about a 3rd to a quarter of the cold which is fine for showers etc, but it can be a bit slow for filling the washer, or a bucket etc.

Maybe its just the AU models, but I've had a gas rinnai and bosch that were newish ones, as well as some dinosaurs and they all exhibited the same problem.

The other issue can be, that some of them no longer have a pilot light and use electric ignition. Thus if the power goes off there might be no hot water.

Personally I love these things if you've got long pipe runs, and you have one at each end of the house, but otherwise I prefer storage units.

The temp comming out of the unit doesnt vary, but because the pressure tends to be lower, the more taps you turn on the lower the pressure at the tap, and if you're in the shower it can freeze your butt off.

I recognize that this is contrary to the other opinions on here, but its just my experiences with these heaters.

 

[wringingwet]

Have a Rianni here in SC and Love it

Just went tankless this year and love the Rianni gas hot water heater. Since I am on a well and pressure is constant, I see very little fluctuation with having the washer,shower and dishwasher all going at the same time. I have notices a significant drop in my gas bill I believe this unit should pay for itself in about 5 years. I wish I would have done it sooner

As far as endless hot water when company comes its wonderful to not have a shower schedule

Thanks

Philippe

 

[48bencix]

Check out all of the requirements

Hi Steve,

When I checked out the tankless heaters I found out the following:

1. Depending on the distance to the gas meter, 1/2" gas line, which is typical for a storage/tank heater, may not be large enough.

2. The exhaust stack may need to be larger or taller.

3. You must get the heater with pilotless ignition to achieve any savings. Look for energy coefficient or Federal Energy Guide. These units have a fairly complicated electronic control system.

4. Most of these heaters have a valve inside which must be serivced/cleaned yearly. In Europe, where these heaters are used extensively, the people are used to this. We tend to buy things and forget them, hence the storage/tank heater which needs little service.

5. To size the heater properly, you need to know how many faucets are to be run at the same time. Otherwise the water may be too cool. The larger units will need larger gas lines and exhausts. We are used to being able to open as many faucets as we want with storage/tank heaters.

6. They cost a lot more.

7. Remember to tell your friends that they need a permit to replace water heaters.

Martin

 

[kenmore1978]

Tankless advice

Good points, I sorta figured EVERYTHING couldn't be in favor of the tankless, always some dis-advantages.

 

[foraloysius]

Martin,

Do you mean that a tank heater doesn't need to be serviced every year? When my parents had a tank water heater they had it cleaned every year together with the boiler of the central heating system. Later they exchanged both with a combined HE system which is also cleaned every year. Overhere in Europe a yearly service of gas appliances is considered normal. Your message gives me the impression it isn't normal in the US, is that correct?

Louis

 

[48bencix]

Water heater service

Louis,

Yes, we should service our gas appliances. For a storage/tank gas water heater, all one needs to do is turn the drain valve (it helps to put a hose on first) and drain a few gallons of water once a year, until the water runs clear. This prevents sediment build-up at the bottom of the tank. However many people do not do even this simple task. They figure that they will have to replace the unit in a few years.

My last gas water heater lasted 45 years (Sears). A new one probably will not last that long, just like the other appliances that are made today. The tankless units are warranted for 20 years and may last that long. The internal valve may take only a few minutes to service, we need more reports from those that have them.

Electric storage/tank water heaters need this service also. Another service that may be need it cleaning the electric heating elements if they become coated with minerals from hard water.

Martin

 

[foraloysius]

When my parents had that tank water heater I did indeed drain it now and then. But more important was cleaning the burner and adjusting it so the gas burned properly and efficiently. This same maintenance was done to the gas boiler every year. I thought you were talking about that.

 

[48bencix]

water heater service

Louis,

To be more accurate, I looked up the recommended maintenance for a residential gas water heater. The pilot and main burner should be checked every 12 months for proper flame, cleaning may be required. The temperature and pressure valve should be tested at this time also. The anode rod may need to be checked depending on water conductivity.

So there are items to be checked or serviced, but almost no one does it, that's the point.

Martin

 

[kenmore1978]

tank water heaters

These are things that SHOULD be done, but are virtually never done. Average life of a tank water here with no maitenance whatsoever (assuming one bought better grade heater in the first place) is about 15 years. If at least the yearly draining is done, life is extended. But most people jsut repalce them when they start to leak

 

[kenmore1978]

45 years

48bencix, you had a gas water heater that lasted 45 years?! I would expect that an electric heater MIGHT make it that long (no intense heat on the bottom of the tank and doesn't have to heat through a layer of sediment like a gas heater) but a GAS heater? Hard to believe. Unless, maybe it didn't get a lot of use or was turned down to a lower thn average temperature.

 

[geoff]

Hot water A-plenty

I must admit I do not have any experience with tankless hot water heating, but, I absolutely could not live without our water heating system. Our hot water is heated Via oil burner and is stored in a separate 60 gallon insulated water tank. This furnace also heats our house. When you turn on the faucet you start using the hot water stored in the tank and at the same time the oil burner almost instantaneously replaces it. When you are done using the hot water, the furnace shuts off. Anyway, this house has never, ever run out of hot water. I have done numerous loads of hot wash, then dishes, then showers and after all that is done, the water is even hotter than when you first started. we have 170 degree hot water and the house set at 65. Never a problem with hot water or house heating.

 

[kenmore1978]

oil burner heated hot water

60 gallons is a LARGE tank. So how do you keep the oil burner from heating the house while it's heating the water in the summertime? I know they also make oil-burner powered tank type heaters