Rinse aid question

[foxchapel]

another Jet Dry rinse aid question

Brand new 800 Series Bosch DW here. We have rinse aid dispenser set to lowest setting. Never used Jet Dry rinse aid in the former Kenmore DW that I always used 'No Heat-Dry' setting.

Same detergent (Finish PowerBall tabs).

With our new Bosch, dishes are still fairly wet when I open door 30 minutes to an hour after cycle ends. The dishes are much wetter than with 'No Heat-Dry' setting on no rinse-aid Kenmore, including the walls and inside of the door.

What's up with this?

Should we increase the Jet Dry dispenser setting? Even though I never ever used it in the old Kenmore DW? It's all new to me.

 

[mysteryclock]

I have a Bosch DW w/ softener that was installed earlier this year and I also noticed that some things (mainly plasticware) were quite wet at the end of pretty much any cycle. This was especially true compared to our old KA TT model, which got everything bone dry. I do use Quantum tabs and Somat rinse-aid (best I've found so far) but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Everything still comes out clean and shiny, and hard items are almost always dry. But for some reason plastic stays wet...go figure. I just dab it off with a towel and deal with it.

I'm too happy having a built-in softener to take on our rock hard water to really complain!

 

[frigilux]

It doesn't surprise me that there's still rinse aid in the dispenser if you only wash 10-12 loads per month. I wash upwards of 14 loads per week and I fill mine about once a month. My LG's dispenser has a range of settings. Since I have mechanically-softened water, I have it set a the lowest (1) setting.

 

[launderess]

FoxChapel

If your dishes and the inside of the machine are still "wet" an hour after the cycles finish, two things come to my mind at once.

First what is the temperature of your final rinse water? If it is too cool it will cool down the dishes from a heated wash and you won't get enough of a "flash dry" effect that no heat drying depends upon.

The other would be to increase the amount of rinse aid dispensed until things are where you wish them to be. IIRC most DW's do not dispense that much product into the final rinse so you can adjust the setting rather high and still not worry about consumption. For us the key test is to see if the machine is struggling with excess froth during the rinse, that indicates perhaps way too much rinse aid was dispensed.

In light of the last bit have recently turned the dial on our Frigidare/Kenmore down to about "1" or "2" (cannot remember) for two reasons. The boilers are set to "winter" thus hot water out of the taps is >130F, and am using Cascade Complete (older STPP laden formula) which contains a rinse aid of sorts.

 

[washer111]

I would be interested in knowing about using Vinegar as a Rinse-Aid in the dishwasher.
My only concern is that since we've already "destroyed" one drain filter, thankfully under warranty, I am not too interested in having to replace another one, especially now that we are out of the warranty period.

Whilst the DishDrawer can much on all sorts of things (during my "testing), you need to use the Heavy cycle, and crank the rinse-aid...

Is vinegar harsh enough to dissolve glues and such?

 

[mikeklondon]

Hot water at 130F ???????????????

If its only at a 130F in winter how cool do you set it for in the summer? 130F is only 54C thats not much above warm really. Mine is set to 76 C that 168F so its just to hot to put a hand in but would not give a serous burn. Its much cheaper to run that way as you only use a smaller amount

 

[launderess]

In the USA 120F

Is the most common hot water setting, though some set their heater higher.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>Is the most common hot water setting, though some set their heater higher.</blockquote> Currently 103°F / 39.5°C.

 

[mark_wpduet]

103??

mine is set to 130......

I'm not sure about what harm vinegar could do to a dishwasher.......Honestly, I don't think any harm. I do know I've read many forums where people use distilled white vinegar as a rinse aid. Some pour it in when they hear the rinse start, some put it in the dispenser....

I admit I don't know if it will harm my rinse aid mechanism.....but it works REALLY well as a rinse aid........It also breaks down hard water at the same time in the inner workings of the dishwasher. I know my racks slide easier than they did before.

I've used vinegar mixed with fab softener in my front load washer for YEARS.

 

[washer111]

mark_wpduet

For us, there really isn't much benefit switching to White Vinegar then. We have a home water softener, so the water is always soft.
Perhaps the only thing to "worry" about is the chemicals in the rinse aid (Surfactant?) and perhaps some buildup in the dishwasher.

By the way, when you have solar heated water in this country, temperatures vary from 86ºF (30ºC) - 212ºF (100ºC) or BOILING! There is NO shutoff on those forsaken things. If you're lucky, you'll have a tempering valve, that brings things back to a "leisurely" 149ªF (65ºC), which will eliminate steam blasting from your taps...

 

[mikeklondon]

103C

HI from the cold of London, is 103 hot enough for a good shower, and hygienic hand washing when cooking cleaning ect., I think we blend a mix of hot/cold due to the fact that in most homes the hot water storage tank is a lot smaller . Its so could here at I shivering thinking about a shower at 103c is that the temp in the tank or at the tap, if its the tank temp. then at a shower its going to be around 98F that's almost Freezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing Is the cost of power even higher in the US than it is here.

 

[washer111]

103ºC is BOILING. 103ºF is just warmer than your body temperature. Lukewarm - warm feeling.

That former temperature sanitises and burns everything that touches it (everything living). The latter, is the PERFECT condition for bacterial growth. It is NOT THE RECOMMENDED temperature one would use for sanitising, unless you are using some form of sanitiser, like Alcohol or some other substance (in those cases, follow the manufacturers directions).

103ºF is probably too cold for most people in the shower, but that depends on your preferance. If you live in a hot place, then maybe it is perfect. Since you are from England, then I would probably assume you like a nice, HOT shower in the morning/evening, to help freshen you up (although cold showers tend to shock you into that too!)

 

[Philip0603]

White Vinegar.

In the instructions for my Miele 646 SC it states that you can use distilled vinegar if you run out of rinse aid. I have never yet needed to use any, but it is always there as an option. As far as dosing, I just follow the instructions given and seem to get consistantly good results. I am currently trialling Fairy dishwasher pouches. So far so good.

 

[qsd-dan]

I'd never set my water heater below 140F just for the sole reason of preventing legionalla bacteria from growing.

 


Q. What water conditions are best for growth of legionalla?

A. Warm, stagnant water provides ideal conditions for growth. At temperatures between 20°C-50°C (68°-122°F) the organism can multiply. Temperatures of 32°C-40°C (90°-105°F) are ideal for growth. Rust (iron), scale, and the presence of other microorganisms can also promote the growth of LDB.


Q. Can Legionnaires' disease be prevented?

A. Yes. Avoiding water conditions that allow the organism to grow to high levels is the best means of prevention. Specific preventive steps include:

Regularly maintain and clean cooling towers and evaporative condensers to prevent growth of LDB. This should include twice-yearly cleaning and periodic use of chlorine or other effective biocide.

Maintain domestic water heaters at 60°C (140°F). The temperature of the water should be at least 50°C (122°F) or higher at the faucet.

Avoid conditions that allow water to stagnate. Large water-storage tanks exposed to sunlight can produce warm conditions favorable to high levels of LDB. Frequent flushing of unused water lines will help alleviate stagnation.

 

[DADoES]

 
My water heater has no storage tank.  The heating chamber is fully flushed each time water is run.  I occasionally raise the temperature temporarily for selected tasks.

The display can show:  set temp, input temp, output temp, heating chamber #1 temp, heating chamber #2 temp, flow rate, output percentage of full capacity.

 

[mikeklondon]

Water Heater

HI DadoES

looks like an interesting water system you have would love to know more it looks like its electric how many whats does it pull? whats the flow rate like at high temp? I see how you can take more of a risk with this type of system but 103f still sound very cool

 

[DADoES]

Off-Topic -- water heating

 
Electric, yes.  It's a large-capacity, whole-house unit with four 7,200 watt elements, potential total 28,800 watts, which is 120a at 240v.  However, the unit moderates its power consumption based on the load ... input temp, output set point, and flow rate.  It doesn't reduce the flow rate if it can't reach the setpoint, the output just won't get to full temp.

Running my kitchen faucet at maximum:
Input approx 67°F
Setpoint 103°F
Flow rate 1.2 gpm (low-flow aerator)
Output between 22% and 24% of full capacity

Setpoint 140°F (maximum)
Output between 55% and 61% (a few spikes to 67%) of capacity, with repeated drops to between 29% and 31%.

Scalding injury would result from showering in 140°F water, so what would be the point of setting it to 140°F?  103°F is perfect for me.  My dishwasher has internal heating so no need to raise it for that.  Washing clothes is the only time I raise it according to what I want for the load, or on rare occasions for a whirlpool-tub soak.  The unit produces heated water continuously, never runs out, so there's no need to run the temp higher for "reserve capacity."

 

[mikeklondon]

28000 watts

I'm not sure the old cabling in my street is up-to delivering 28000 watts, we have gas water heaters 's here that work in the same way but I have had very mixed reports from people how have them. cheap to run but a very limited flow rate in winter for a shower + you can only use 1 hot tap at a time this would be a problem in our house in the mornings

 

[DADoES]

 
My house has 200 amp service.

As explained above, the unit does not always run at 100% power.  24% is 6,912 watts.  61% for the 140°F example above is 17,586 watts ... a very large draw by any measure but still not maximum for the unit.  I've seen it low as 8% to 15%.

Regards to restriction against using more than one hot water tap at a time ... that's largely a fallacy. I've had guests running showers simultaneously with no issue.  The unit can't selectively activate or deactivate water taps.  Any hot water tap that's turned on will of course have water flowing out of it, at whatever flow-rate the aggregate household plumbing supports for multiple taps open, heated to the setpoint within the unit's ability to maximum capacity.  It's not necessary to run every heated-water task at full-flow rate the faucet can provide.  When I've checked out of curiosity, I find that I run my shower at average 1.2 to 1.5 GPM, there's plenty capacity to handle that even at an input temp below 40°F.