Sears bleeding money and in trouble

[gansky1]

I walked around the paint department in our nearest Sears a couple of weeks ago for nearly 10 minutes - alone, at 6 PM in the evening. 25 years ago, I would have had to line up and wait to speak with a department employee. I worked part-time in that same department from 1980 to 1987 and in the summer, we were swamped at most any time of the day or evening.

I wonder how much of Sears' decline can be attributed, just like their rise in popularity, to their credit card? The extension of credit combined with nationwide availability (catalog) and a massive service network probably did more for the Kenmore brand and Sears than the Kenmore brand. Remember, until the mid-90's, Sears only accepted their own credit cards; Sears and Discover. Often for young families just starting out in their first home, etc. it was Sears that would extend credit when few, if any, other options were available.

Not long ago, Sears touted that "the Kenmore brand was at work in 1 out of 2 American homes." and I suspect credit had a lot to do with that through the years. Kenmore appliances and home products were rarely at the top of the game when it came to performance and reliability. Their Roper-made ranges rarely topped the charts, Whirlpool-made refrigeration was well-rated but the laundry products (until the direct-drive washers) were just average in most categories, D&M dishwashers were so-so and Kenmore vacuum cleaners made by a number of companies were hit-and-miss.

It's sad to think that such an iconic American brand might fall by the wayside, but I'm sure someone will be coming along to sweep up the pieces and breathe new (imported plastic) life into the brand.

 

[jeffg]

> Often for young families just starting out in their first home, etc. it was Sears that would extend credit when few, if any, other options were available. <

Strange, I remember the Sears credit card being one of the toughest of all cards to get. If you didn't already have a VISA or MasterCard, you could just forget about applying for a Sears card.

 

[gansky1]

Tough to get? Really? Working in the store with the customers, you would have never believed that! ;-)

 

[defoedude]

As someone who works for Sears Holdings

I will not be surprised if Sears and Kmart go down the tubes. Especially Kmart, their achilles heel is still issues with supply chain management, lack of training, skimpy wages and benefits for employees, and continuous cutting of hours. One person cannot handle 2 or 3 departments at once, yet the bastards at Hoffman are too blind and foolish to recognize that.

I will say that everyone in my family has had a major appliance from Sears. My nan bought my cousin Scott all Kenmore appliances for his first house 14 years ago, and my Aunt Gail uses my Uncle Don's parents Kenmore washer and dryer set from 1973. Don worked for Sears as an auto tech at the Northwest Plaza location, so my nan and Gail took advantage of his employee discount frequently.

Even at some of the dead broad sales I go to in the North St. Louis county area (especially Florissant and Hazelwood), seems like almost every house has at least one major appliance purchase from Sears. They catered to the middle class customer, which is why if you bought a brand new home in North County in the 50's and 60's, you went to Sears cause they had more for your money with the best quality at the best price, and 99% of the time you went back when one of your appliances gave out after 20 plus years of usage.

And their charge card, I hate it and hate having to push them. It's not worth it especially at 22% interest. Shoot I read the Sears card applications in my old Sears catalogs and the questions they ask it's like if you're applying for a home loan. Now with technology you just provide ID, your social security #, and you get an instant decision.

 

[volvoguy87]

Sears.

I came of age long after the demise of Homart, Coldspot, and Silvertone. The only sears-only brands I know are Craftsman and Kenmore. I have never bought an appliance on credit, so I cannot speak for that perspective. I can speak for their products, however.

Kenmore appliances are everywhere. While they have varied in manufacturer and performance, they have never been bad. A Kenmore appliance is one you can consistently count on to get the job done. It is not the best, but it is far from the worst, most of the time. Kenmore appliances, traditionally, have also been pretty well-featured for their price and even though they are made by others, their KM only quirks are interesting enough to satisfy.

While Craftsman tools are not Snap-On, I have been very satisfied with my Craftsman hand tools. Their ergonomics are good, they get the job done without feeling cheap, and they do have that lifetime warranty.

I feel like old Sears tools and appliances, while made by others, had to pass some sort of test to carry the Sears name. This is largely no longer the case. I just feel like Kenmore and Craftsman used to be reliably good. If I needed a tool or appliance I could do research to find the best one or I could just get a Sears. While not the absolute best, the Sears would be better than 2/3 of the competition, no matter what.

The Kenmore and Craftsman names still have a good reputation, unlike post GM Frigidaire, and I think that with some renewed effort on standards, they could be great again. Perhaps they could work out their issues then have an advertising campaign where they admit Kenmore and Craftsman things are made by others, but have to meet their standards to carry the Sears name.

Sorry for not being as eloquent as I would like.
My father still has his Craftsman tools from 35 years ago and they are in as good shape as mine. I think that represents something they got right.

I really need to work on my Lady Kenmores,
Dave

 

[launderess]

When it comes to appliances and other items Sears slaps it's "Kenmore" brand upon the problem is they are no longer top dog.

For years when Kenmore came a knocking to say GE, Whirlpool or any other manufacturer, they could though their weight around in terms of pricing, design and so forth because Sears could move major amounts of merchandise. Today it is Walmart, Lowes and other big box retailers that stole Sear's thunder in that area. Indeed Walmart has been responsible for more changes in retailing than anyone else today, and most certianly is top dog in terms of throwing it's weight around.

 

[hunter]

Unfortunate...

It is unfortunate to see Sears have gone the way it has. I can see why they fail, though, as I have vowed never, ever again to buy an appliance at Sears.

They do their infamous "We will refund your delivery charges through a mail in rebate." I send the rebate off the same day. Three months later I get a note in the mail saying "Oh, you didn't submit this on time."

I call the help line. I sit on hold for > 1 hour. I speak to them. They give me the run around. I have documentation. They say 'OH we will reprocess this no problem.' Two more months go by; I get the same letter.

Finally I write the office of the CEO and FINALLY get satisfaction.

It was only $60 but it was the PRINCIPLE of the thing. Funny thing was I think I cost them more than $60.

Never again. When I had to replace my washer and dryer and Stove I went to Best Buy. They matched the Sears online price (they were doing an incredible sale) and gave me free delivery AT THE CASH REGISTER. Plus their extended warranties were 1/3 the cost of Sears'.

Too bad. RIP old Sears. You've been dead for a while.

 

[jetcone]

I have to agree with Greg and JeffG

In Boston in the 80's the toughest CCard to get was Sears if you got that then you could get any other. I got a Filene's store card bought my first TV with it , paid it off on time and was then able to get a Sears card.

But today I hate my Sears card, its all marketing and HEAVY FINES if you don't pay on time. Now that is a REAL issue with me, they set me up with 30 day cycles as usual, well somewhere along the fine print over time they changed that to 20 day cycles and whammo I got hit with $39 here and $39 dollars there so I put the card in the safe 5 years ago! I tried closing it out and they closed and opened a new one and sent that to me. This is it in a nutshell - THEY DO NOT LISTEN TO their Customer's needs. So I am through with Sears. My folks were Monkey Wards types anyway.

I do like and am loaded up with 30 years worth of Craftsman tools so I better get them in for replacements soon.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Odd that credit card thing, which I have heard before. I got Sears as my very first one. I think one gets high bonus points for being at the same address for a long time.

 

[toggleswitch2]

THEY DO NOT LISTEN TO their Customer's needs.

Well I'd say yes and no.

Every thinkn of why the "calypso" was named as it is?

While I worked for Sears years ago, the CEO was of Hispanic extraction. He was extremely proud of himself to make Sears more "Hispanic-friendly". This included extension of credit to certain customers here and in Mexico, Spanish language overlays for washers and dryers and labeling of the departments in Spanish.

I was rather confused, lately, to be in the center of Connecticut in the greater Hartford area only to hear the piped-in music with a Latin beat and the announcements IN SPANISH ONLY. AFAIK that area is not heavily Hispanic. IMHO It would have been FAR more palatable to include English and other languages as well.

I guess the tradtional customers that made Sears what it is ....er was...don't matter all that much.

 

[whirlcool]

Yes, living at the same address more than 5 years does up your credit score quite a bit. It's one of those things they look at.

I just read that Sears is going to up its interest rate to 27% starting next month. IMHO that's loan shark interest rates.

This house we are in now came with Kenmore BOL appliances. They are all gone now, but I will say the stove cooked very well and was fantastic at holding a constant oven temp. The microwave was more upscale and it was great, until it died.

Most Sears stores still have that 1960's look to them. Oh, I forgot we DO have a Sears store in the Woodlands Mall which is slightly upscale in a more upscale neighborhood. So in a city of 5.8 million people there are only 5 Sears stores. And that's a poor showing.

 

[MikeS]

I Miss The Old Sears Too

When I was a boy growing up in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles, my parents were die-hard (pardon the pun) Sears customers. Most of our major purchases came from Sears--color TV, stereo console, electronic organ, washer, dryer, fridge and range. Our tires were Sears radials; my dad swore by Craftsman tools. (The exception was clothing; mom believed in J.C. Penney.)
Our Sears products provided good value for the dollar and when repairs were needed, they were done promptly and fairly.
Flash forward several decades: The last time I purchased something from Sears was back in 1997--when I bought a Magnavox color TV. My kitchen has no Kenmore appliances; my tools come from Home Depot or Lowes; my tires and batteries from other stores; and so forth.
Did I abandon Sears, or did Sears abandon me? I wish I can give you the answer, but it seems the latter is more likely.

 

[iheartmaytag]

"Strange, I remember the Sears credit card being one of the toughest of all cards to get. If you didn't already have a VISA or MasterCard, you could just forget about applying for a Sears card.
"

This is very true from the past as it is now. Sear's credit used to be Greenway Trust, Discover. They were notorious for fraudulent billing. Double billing, errors in posting payments. As a lender we never took a Sear's trade line serious as we knew it wasn't accurate.

 

[turquoisedude]

Sears catalog stores closed in the US??

Wow, I had no idea! Sears Canada still manages to operate them in many large and small towns. Wonder how this might affect the Canadian operations...
It's funny that once upon a time, Kenmore appliances were synonymous with durablity and great after-sales service. I remember that the parts counter at the big Sears store in Ville St-Laurent (when Sears split from Simpsons) was a treasure trove - you could go in with a rusted nub of a part and say "I think this came from a disposer (or whatever)" and they would find you the exact part you needed! THAT doesn't happen now... And I have a co-worker who has just had unending grief with Sears service for her built-in oven that goes weird if she dares to use the self-clean cycle...
SIGH - whatever happened to customer service anyway???

 

[launderess]

Was Reading Some of The "Wall Street" Articles

On this matter, and while Sears does have it's problems, much of their recent woes are part of the nationwide recession and housing bust. Consumers aren't shopping for clothing and certianly aren't purchasing major appliances in droves which are two big areas for Sears. Lowes, Home Depot and other major appliance and electronic retailers are in the same boat, as are many hardware/home related stores.

 

[supersuds]

Catalog stores

No, they're not all closed. I know of small Sears catalog stores in Southern towns, going strong. They have some appliances, tools, lawnmowers, TVs in stock and you can order other stuff.

 

[norgeway]

Coldspot and Kenmore appliances

Did anyone know who made Sears refrigerators prior to whirlpool, or who made there vacuums and mixers up until the mid 50s, The refrigerators were made by Seeger refrigerator Co. , if you will remember Whirlpool products for a time were called Whirlpool Seeger, also vacs and mixers were built by Birtman electric co. , Whirlpool ...aided by Sears, who wanted these products under 1 management..bought these companys in the mid 50s, im not exactly sure what year, but I am sureit was late56 or early 57, because I saw a 57 coldspot that had the Seeger Co tag on the back,also I have a 57 vacuum that still has the Birtman motor, I also have a 56 mixer that has a 116 model prefix which denotes birtman or Whirlpool, I also discovered that a mixer with a 400 prefix is Hamilton Beach, No one has been able to tell me who made my 57 Kenmore electric range,someone said G.E. but it is NOT G.E. they never made anything like it, it has chromalox units and 7 heat pushbutton switches.

 

[turquoisedude]

Older Kenmore Mixers...

are an odd breed, indeed! The late 30's and early 40's models look like Dormeyers. I have a late 40's model that is almost identical to an AC Gilbert (which I think may have become the Universal mixer). Early 50's models looked like what would happen if you crossed a Dormeyer with a Hamilton Beach. In the late 50's and early 60's the Kenmores were cookie-cutter Dormeyers again, then they suddenly became Hamilton-Beach clones...
Sorry I don't know a lot about the vacuums!

 

[norgeway]

Mixers

I think Dormeyer did make a few of them, and gilbert did too, the ones im talking about have a 116 prefix, these are Birtman.

 

[jamiel]

I think the 7 pushbutton electric ranges were Gibson out of Greenville, MI. Clearly 5 button were all GE.