Seeking advice about KitchenAid dishwashers.

[ctv]

I would very much like any and all opinions regarding some dishwashers I have. Two I'm pretty sure are true Hobarts. The other two (plus a "donor") I'm not sure about. All five say they're KitchenAid, but after some research here I suspect two, plus the donor, are maybe Whirlpool with Hobart innards? I can't seem to find either the right information or any at all on the web, so I don't know which one to use/install. I thought it might be better to not add all the pictures and info I'd written down, as I wasn't sure what was relevant.
I've been on this site often enough to realize different people look for different things when offering help, advise or guidance.
So I'd like to leave it up to the collective wisdom of the experts here to let me know what information and pictures they'd prefer to see.
I've written down everything from the front panels, plus the model numbers of the machines and motors.
I have pictures of the panels, the insides with and without the wash arm and of the sump area, and pictures of the motors.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Christine.

 

[stevet]

Hit us with your best shot!

Why not start with your Model Numbers as that is all anyone would need to begin with? We all probably know what the innards look like but always appreciate seeing what condition they are in to determine whether a machine is worth restoring or using.

Start there and let's see where it takes us!

 

[ctv]

Ok. Here goes...

1) Superba Sure-Temp Water Heating.
Whisper Quiet.
Model: YKUDA23OYWO
The sticker on the motor says "KitchenAid"
" Gold Seal Reversing Motor"

 

[ctv]

Number 2.

Energy Saver IV Imperial by Hobart.
Model number KDI-19C.
Motor number Type KD-18.

 

[ctv]

Number 3

Automatic Water-Heating.
Quiet Scrub.
Model number 4KUDP220T2.
I'm too blind to read the eeny-weeny model number on the motor, but the part number says ( I think) 242892. It also says KitchenAid with what looks like the back slanting letters RU stuck together.
This is what I'm using now and I'm not impressed, which I'll explain in number 4 coming right up.

 

[electronicontrl]

YKUDA23OYWO

YKUDA23OYWO
This is the Architect Series.
I'd put that one in my kitchen for certain.
IIRC it has the WP motor/pump but is "hybrid" with a "hobart-looking" interior.

 

[ctv]

And finally number 4

Imperial 21.
Model number KDI-61C.
Motor type KD-20A.
This one I've used before, and it worked great!. I really got into giving it a good clean before I was going to install it as an under-the-counter unit from it's original portable state, but discovered a leak when I test-drove it from the cooling fan area. It was flinging the water from the fan, so I turned it off, and it's sat there since then.
Number 5 is just a donor. Do you want info on that, too?

 

[ctv]

Poor baby needs some tlc.

She probably doesn't like feeling "naked".

 

[ctv]

To Electronicontrl

But that's the icky one I'm using now. I'm always having to scrub stuff off that's left behind, and little nibblies are left on the glasses and cups on the top rack. The one that's in pieces did a way better job, even with a really clogged filter-screen in the water intake valve thingy where the motor is.
I only discovered that while I was under there cleaning. Before that, I had always wondered why it sounded like the water was dribbling when it was filling. And it STILL did a better job than the one I'm using now.

 

[electronicontrl]

@ ctv

Interesting. I thought that was the last of the good ones.
I have this which I picked up off CL for $40
It is in my basement. I have 2 Maytag reverse racks in my kitchen, but I DO LIKE my KitchenAid

 

[ctv]

And this is where it gets confusing for me

because the picture you posted seems close to that white one I have, but because the indicator lights are slightly different and yours says Classic 21 makes me wonder if mine is still one of the "good" ones in that it'll still act like a true Hobart. I've read on here that even after Whirlpool took over, they were still for a time making them the same as what Hobart did. Or did I misunderstand that? The only thing I can compare any dishwasher to is my poor disassembled Imperial 21, which kicked ass no matter what I put in it or how much I loaded it. But by the time I had discovered the leak I had spent so much time taking it apart and cleaning it (scraping off rust down to metal), that I got frustrated with hand-washing and gave up. Now I'm wondering if I should re-address that leak (which also seemed like a daunting task at the time), or go with the white Superba or the black Energy Saver.
Please! I need some opinions on this dilema!

 

[rp2813]

The portable Imperial 21 appears to be a true Hobart machine.  That could be the reason why it kicks ass and why you like it so much.  You may be able to use parts from the machine you're using now, a Superba 22, to fix whatever is wrong with the Imperial.

 

If that's not possible, machine #1, the white Superba 23 with "Sure Temp" would be my next choice.  It's has more Whirlpool influence, but in a good way according to some of the experts here.  If noise is an issue, the 23 will be quieter than the 21.

 

The Imperial 19 "Energy Saver IV" is all Hobart but does not offer a heated dry cycle.  If you're OK with that, it should perform at least as well as the Imperial 21.

 

That's my $.02, but I know just enough to be dangerous.  Steve T. is our resident Hobart SME so let's see what he has to say.

 

[ctv]

To rp2813

I just checked, and the Imperial 21 has a Hobart motor. So, would it be worthwhile to look into the water leak, then? Through research on this site, it sounded like it needed a new seal (shaft?) of some kind, but I was looking into it awhile ago just before I gave up in frustration. I had already put about a weeks worth of extreme cleaning into it, and from what I read about a possible seal replacement seemed too much for my brain to handle. And right around that time is when I acquired the one I'm using now that doesn't do a good job, That Has Got To Go!
Regarding your take on the white Superba, I care not about noise as long as it blows the crud off the dishes. Small price to pay, in my opinion.
Both previous owners of the white Superba and the black Energy Saver said they did a good job, but I haven't tested either. It's a fairly large undertaking to move them where I can test them.
And I never use the heat option when drying anyway, so the black Energy Saver would be fine, too.
I just can't decide what to do with the choices I have.

 

[ctv]

To Electronicontrl

I'm sorry! I got it wrong. Too many numbers floating around......
I had thought you were making reference to the one I'm using now, thus my original response.
The white Superba is what you were recommending, right?
I knew I should have started this thread in the morning after, at least, the second cup of coffee.

 

[rp2813]

If replacing the seal or whatever component is causing the leak on the Imperial 21 seems like too big a job, the Imperial 19 "Energy Saver" would be the closest match to use as a replacement machine.  You may be happiest with that one.

 

If it's not too much trouble, you can test out the other machines outdoors or in a garage by filling them with water, either from a bucket or garden hose, and if necessary, using a bucket to catch the water as its pumped out during the drain function. 

 

The first test is the easiest and requires no water.  Just give the wash arm a spin and see how it behaves.  If it spins freely and quietly, great.  If it chatters its way around, you're looking at worn components. 

 

A deciding factor for you may be the number of rinses.  The Superba "Sure Temp" only provides a single rinse after the main wash.  I've owned a couple of single rinse models and it has never been a major issue.  Your current dishwasher is a single rinse model.  The Imperial 19 (and I think the 21) provides two rinses after the main wash.

 

If you're dealing with hard water, you may want to take into consideration which machines have rinse aid dispensers and which (if any) do not.

 

 

 

[Gilles8000]

In Canada, all dishwashers made by Hobart Canada all models have the rinse aid dispenser
.
All dishwahswer gave you a double rinse until the 21 series as explained below.

We used tp have a Kitchenaid KDC-20C (Custom) and remember ir quite well. After after, the main wash, it would go into a purge and then go into 2 rinses and dry.

The 21 series and later were the first dishwashers that would go into a purge after the main wash and then a final rinse. My aunt had the KDI-21C series made by Hobart.

I have the service manual for the 18, 18, and 20 series.

 

[ctv]

To rp2813

I think I like the idea of 2 rinses, as that seems a better idea than just the one. I'm also on well-water that can gurgle up some sediment that starts to clog up my kitchen faucet every couple of months or so but I wouldn't consider it really hard water.
I'm surprised to hear that the Superba only has one rinse. With all those lovely buttons I would have expected more from it.
All four have the rinse-aid dispensers. But I'm a bit of a chemical-phobe so am wary of what's in that stuff. I will do more research though, if you're recommending I use it for my type of water.
The weather is a bit too nippy to be testing the machines right now, which are on my deck, but that's a great idea and will do so when it warms up.
I have just done the wash-arm chatter test on all but the Imperial 21. The Energy Saver failed. The Superba didn't chatter, but I heard the faintest "whoosh" for about 1/4 of a full rotation which I'm assuming is normal.
So, it's down to the Superba or the Imperial. And since I know the Imperial does do a good job, along with having the coveted 2nd rinse, I'd like to find out more about that leak. The last time I ran it, water was being flung from what looked like the top of the cooling fan. I turned it off and unplugged it quick for fear of something getting zapped including me.
Any suggestions what to do from here?
I've got a friend who keeps threatening to buy me a brand new machine because of the griping I do about the currently installed one, but I keep telling him how great these baby's are.
So, ya, I'd like the opportunity to say to him "I told you so!"

 

[ctv]

To Gilles8000

Yes, mine all have rinse-aid dispensers. And with me being on well-water, it might be that I'll have to start using it although it isn't really hard water.
With the info I've gotten so far, it's now down to the Superba or the Imperial.
What would your opinions be on those two?

 

[rp2813]

I don't know if the wash arms are interchangeable on the two Imperials (there's an outside chance since the 21 is a Hobart), but you can determine that with just a visual check.  If the hubs look the same, try taking the arm from the 21 and putting it on the 19 and see if the chattering still happens -- that's if you first determine the arm on the 21 doesn't chatter where it is now.

 

The arms lift right off.  Just be sure the tips of them clear the bumps on the sides of the tubs that support the lower racks, and lift straight up.

 

If you still have chattering on the 19, the wash arm support likely needs some new components which others here can elaborate on.