Should I buy the Miele WXI860 over the WXF660 for its shorter cycle times?

[laundry235]

I was originally partial to the WXF660 until I realized that its normal cycle is like an hour and 10 minutes long. It does have some shorter cycles but I'm not sure if they would substitute well for me needing a normal cycle that is less than 50 minutes. I know the WXI860 has a quickintensewash feature which may work but I'm not really a fan of the recirculation otherwise. More specifically, I am wondering:

Can the WXF660's express cycle or another cycle replicate the WXI860's quickintensewash or would they not fill with water beyond the suggested capacity? Just wondering if it would automatically adjust water levels if I were to for instance load 12 lbs in the express cycle that is only recommended for 7.7 lbs.

Can powerwash/recirculation be turned off on the WXI860 and does it activate in all cycles including the rinse portions?

Towels cycle on the WXF660 seems to have a similar <50min wash time and similar parameters (RPM, rhythm, etc) to the normal cycle. Are there some secret parameters that cannot be controlled that make it rougher than normal cycle?

The reason I need the cycle to be under an hour is because it would necessarily be too rough on the clothes. It would therefore also make sense to question whether the express cycle is also more aggressive than advertised which would basically suit my needs. Many thanks.

 

[henene4]

I can tell you that it certainly would not be to rough on clothes.
My T-Shirts run through 2+ hour cycles on the regular and some of them are years old.

The Express cycle says it does 2 rinses - which surprises me.
The EU version does 1 rinse, period, from what I've seen.

QuickIntense does a full wash period (something like 30-40min) and an accelerated rinse portion.

It would adapt filling in both cases - but only by keeping the water level.
A low water level without recirculation will probably not do good in rinsing/washing a full ish load in the Express cycle times.

And especially if you want to load these machines to capacity, recirculation is a must have.
It runs on the main wash and final rinse, but (usually) not the rinses inbetween.

You might want to consider just using the low soil level setting and dose manually.
That should shorten wash times.

 

[laundry235]

Okay I see.

I guess from my perspective, 1 hour, let alone 2, is just too much especially since the dexter commercial washer in the laundromat does one cycle for 23 minutes and it comes out completely clean (I know the wash action may differ, but still, time is just as important as other variables).

Now does the quickintensewash spin before each rinse? I know it has two rinses. The express cycle in contrast from videos I have found only does one spin before 2nd rinse and then a final spin.

And do both machines use the same water level, especially with max rinse level turned on?

 

[launderess]

"...I guess from my perspective, 1 hour, let alone 2, is just too much..."

That just do be way things are nowadays.

Historically European h-axis washing machines for domestic use took ages to do a Normal/Cottons/Linens wash, but those times have only grown in response to energy saving and other mandates. Yes, there are various offerings of "quick" programs, but these are almost always for less than full capacity loads that may be only lightly soiled.

If rapid cycle times are very important to you look at Speed Queen front loaders. There like Dexter washers in laundromats you'll see "Normal" cycles of < 30 mins or so. You won't have all the bells and whistles of a Miele but there you are then.

 

[launderess]

To wit:

Is 30 Minutes Really Enough Time To Wash Your Clothes? Our Laundry Expert Weighs In - House Digest

Getting your clothes clean via an express wash seems too good to be true, so we asked expert Zachary Pozniak about how legit fast laundry loads are.

www.housedigest.com

 

[henene4]

There is a certain wisdom to washing clothing - "Sinnerscher Kreis" (in english Sinner's circle, that was his name, don't blame me).
It's the basic understanding that any cleaning process involves chemistry, time, heat and mechanical action.

You can offset certain things with other things.
Chlorine bleach is far faster than oxygen bleach - but way more chemically aggressive.
Tensides work really quickly - enzymes don't.

So if we'd be talking TL, yeah, 10-20min more in washing makes a huge difference.
On a FL, especially one like a Miele, doubling wash time really isn't much.

 

[launderess]

Besides surfactants key thing to laundry often comes down to pH of substances used.

Alkaline substances (ammonia, washing soda, soda ash, sodium metasilicate, sodium hydroxide, sodium phosphates, borax and so forth) all bring various properties to wash day. Chief among them are ability to saponify fats, grease and oils, cause fibers of natural textiles such as cotton and linen to expand which aids in removal of soils and so it goes.

Commercial/industrial laundries by and large use high temperatures and pH (alkaline)to remove soils and certain marks. For ages laundries in UK and elsewhere in Europe got blood out of hospital laundry using nothing more than soap, perborate and sodium metasilicate along with near or at boil wash temps. If those substances sound familiar they made up original Persil formula. Get it? PER - SIL.

Generally top loading washing machines with central beaters of any sort are far more aggressive on laundry than h-axis types. This has been known for ages ever since early washing machines (semi-automatic, fully automatic, manually powered, steam powered...) arrived on scene.

That being said some h-axis washing machines are more aggressive than others.

True industrial/commercial h-axis/front loading washers have ribs inside tub that are about 1" to 2" deep (more or less). For a properly loaded cottons/linens/normal cycle one can see (and often feel) laundry being lifted and slapped down from 11 o'clock to 4 o'clock positions.

This more aggressive mechanical action coupled with other variables such as water temperature and chemicals are reasons why commercial front loaders can complete a cycle in 30 minutes or so and achieve a good wash.

Such machines often have full or partial programmability allowing for drum rhythms and water levels to suit material being laundered.

Some complain that even laundromat front loaders are too aggressive on their washing.

 

[me]

UK machines washing cycle times.

The longest cycle on my current machine is 2 hours 30 minutes, on the eco 60°C cotton wash, or 3h 30' with the I would say almost escential, extra rinse (well 3h 35' with a prewash too). Not one I use much, because it's an old machine with a brushed universal motor and not that efficient, so only saves a few pennies worth of electricity, probably not enough to justify the extra wear and tear on the machine.

The standard 90°C cotton wash is 2h 10', or 2h 25' with extra rinse.

A 40C synthetics, or mixed load wash is about 1h 22' with an extra rinse.

And my machine is 15 years old, as launderess pointed out, the cycles have only got longer on our modern, more efficient machines. The designs of the drums has improved though, and is supposed to be gentler on the washing than an old one like mine.

 

[me]

typo

eco 60C cotton should have been 3 h 05' with extra rinse.

 

[laundry235]

Toggling the wash time to optimize energy use still has to be subject to a certain limiting factor that you can't go beyond a certain duration because the clothes will start to get damaged and the purpose is undermined...

Plus beyond a certain wash time like probably an hour, the amount of energy saved becomes more and more negligible.

Looking at the WXI860 the express cycle is basically enough in my opinion in getting even really dirty clothes cleaned in 35 minutes, the wash time is like 15 minutes+ only problem is it doesn't rinse the detergent off because it doesn't spin before the first rinse and only spins for like a few seconds before the 2nd rinse... So I have to use a different cycle or put it through a quick rinse which uses even more water and even more energy... What is that about...

 

[stephen]

WXI860

Express doesn’t rinse efficiently because of lack of intermittent spins.
And QuickIntenseWash leaves the clothes soaking wet because the final spin is not much more than a burst. QIW would be perfect if they took 5 min of the wash time and used of for a longer final spin. Sometimes I use the Towel Cycle for a quicker Cotton Wash.

 

[henene4]

QuickIntense really shouldn't leave clothing soaking wet.
The final spin is shorter, true, but it's still full speed. The times I've used it on the 3 different generations of machines that have that cycle it spun just fine.

That cycle is very much EU coded in its design regardless.
It's ment to give you the full cleaning power of a typical very long EU Cotton cycle for a partial load in less than an hour.

The biggest criticism I have about it is rinsing somewhat.
Depending on what version of the cycle you have, you either get only one interim spin (if it isn't skipped) and then 2 very short very deep rinses.
Or you have to add 15min to the cycle (some versions used to allow "Water Plus", others had "Short" preselected ans you could deselect that) and get 2 interim spins (on some versions, again, that cycle had a lot variation over the 10+ years it existed in the EU).

 

[stephen]

QIW

On the US model- no SHORT button. And no Water Plus. Used to be able to select WP on certain cycles (not QIW) in the app but no longer.
And the clothes do take twice as long to dry in the dryer. So that offsets the time saved using the cycle. In my experience.

 

[laundry235]

Water plus/QuickIntenseWash

@stephen Was it a firmware update or something? Maybe no need for firmware or even app update, they just disable it on the app for everyone? But on a buddy's device I was able to see water plus a few weeks ago on a different machine so maybe it wasn't app wide? Perhaps a solution to the lack of water plus should be found by somebody

Regarding Quickintensewash, my issue is it doesn't allow for cold water so basically I never use it...

The machine is well built but the lack of good programming makes you more and more dissatisfied with it as time goes by