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questions that partnerships which span several years or decades can and do exist and are happy and fulfilling.

All I am saying is that the typical (and it is typical, political correctness won't change it) love affair based on a middle aged guy wanting a "boy" in his early twenties because he's a boy in his early twenties is destined to be a very brief affair.

As long as it is clear to both of them right from the start, then it's cool. What is not cool is the guys who are into using people. Same category as the guys who maintain it is the other guy's responsibility to ask and if they don't it's ok to pass on HIV to them. Same category as the bi-sexuals who seduce gay men and promise them eternal love...but creep on home to their wives and families whenever the going (for the gay partner) gets tough.
 
Keven,
My Post was not intended to dispute yours but to add another perspective. As a 20 year old I was not looking for a "Sugar Daddy", but was attracted to older men...For many reasons...I can't totally speak for the two men in my examples, but have from time to time spoken with my first and he has admitted that part of the benefit/attraction for him was that a 20 year old guy was interested in him. He has said that he got a further ego boost when realizing that I was ACTUALLY interested in him and not what an older man could provide.

I think you make some very accurate points, but I just have a different perspective on something that is probably more accurately portrayed by your point.

In reality - I have more going on "upstairs" at this point in my life than I did then, but I sure was interested in what these older, more experienced men had going on upstairs and very honestly, down stairs.

In the end - I am grateful for these experiences and am glad that these relationships did end so that I may be where I am in my life...As I said before, it isn't perfect, but it is really great.
 
Evan,

You're absolutely right - there is a lot to be learned from cross-generational (as long as they aren't with kids) relationships.

I got my early sexual tutoring from a Welshman in his 60's and boy did he know all there was to know.

It's just, when someone starts saying "I love you" "I want to build a life with you", then it's time to shit or get off the pot - and, sadly, I have seen far too many times when the older guy leads the younger guy on with implicit promises. Nothing is ever clearly said, but the intent is to deceive.
Yes, it goes both ways.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your perspectives. I'm used to being flamed here - got flamed a few months back for saying I'm monogamous (which I am) then got flamed for supporting a guy who isn't monogamous when he asked whether he should play around...so tend to be a bit defensive at times.

I think life would be a hell of a lot easier if people would just plain flat out tell the truth. You know in your heart whether you want to build your life with someone or not. You know that there will come times when the relationship is not optimally satisfying those needs to which you are entitled. If that's when you want to break it, then you need to be upfront with the guy in advance - you're a sunny-days shag and not a real partner.

Of course, it also wouldn't hurt if a lot of us would grow up and stop making "mommy" our true love interest and treating our relationships as throwaways, bound to end sooner rather than later.
 
These are all great perspectives....

and no buts to be entered, every person and relationship has its pros and cons...just what you are willing to put up with, and for how long....everyone at one point has played a game of some sort, some get tired of it right away and learn to see it fast and avoid them...others still play over and over, some must like it, only reason I feel is that they like it!

my sister dated and married a guy 31 years older than her...and you couldn't tell her any different...he promised her the world...but never delivered...she was 18 then, he was 49, to her in his prime, but add ten years, or 20, they have been married 29 years so far, now shes in her so called prime and he's crippled up in a wheel chair....but the main thing to them I guess is their happy, but he's no help to her, and this is just one example to think about when getting into a relationship of this type....

I like the daddy type, but not everyones opinion of what you consider a daddy is to the next person...

I consider my lucky for what I have, I was never a boy who wanted a daddy 20 years older, just found them a lot more easier to be around for many reasons, guys around my age were just flakes to say the least...my guy is only 3 years my senior, things I love about him is he's bigger than me 6'4", wears a 14 shoe, about 240lbs, blonde/green eyes/moustache, my protector/companion, not a bear or daddy, but he is cuddly, the love of my life, with out being mushy, and I just want to spend the rest of my life with him...I want everyone to truly feel this contentment, and relax, be yourself, sometimes you may have to change a little, but isn't a little change worth a lifetime of enjoyment...unconditional love, material things are nice, but it wouldn't matter if we lived in a penthouse or a little shack as long as we do it together!

take your time guys and be a little choosy, but don't put your list so high that no one can reach it, I know you want it NOW, we all did, and never thought it would happen, when it does you will know...

just some words to ramble on with, but many of us have been there, and we know what you going thru, it's very hard, GOD never gives you anything you can't handle!

peace and love and hugs to you guys...we'll get you thru this...any issues, talk to us...thats why were here, and when it happens we want to be invited to the wedding....a wash-in bear cruise wedding married by the captain...for starters...lol

life is a car ride across america with a few bumps and a flat tire along the way, but otherwise a nice adventure to tell your friends!...just my advice

Yogi--------->
 
Vern,

This may or may not help - Prior to meeting the hubby I was single for 4 years. During this time I "developed" a personal "sales" strategy...After a good 18 to 20 months of feeling rather lonely and not meeting many people, I decided I had to look at this like I was marketing a product. Very simplistically and not at all like a whore - though earning an extra buck back then would have come in handy, but alas I didn't have what it took for that job...

ANYWAY - I started with what was right in my life - I had a solid job where I was reasonably good, I owned a very small apartment building which I enjoyed and helped keep my living expenses on the lower side, I had a group of decent friends, and a good family...NONE of this was perfect, but not wrong either. So, what needed to change? I generally did the same things day to day, week to week, and month to month - Well, if you play the same tape you get the same music. I started mixing my routine up a bit and doing different things. I accepted invitations to things and events that I would normally not go to and met people I would normally not meet. This didn't happen quickly, and I wasn't always thrilled with what I did or who I met, BUT I did find that there were things I enjoyed that I normally didn't do and people I met that I would normally not meet. My social circle wided quite a bit and actually I was involved in many different circles...Not all gay...I can't say that many of these people were and are still good close friend, but many were/are fun aquaintances.

In the end it "kind-of" helped me meet the hubby. He worked out at the same gym I did, but due to our respective life circumstances we never really talked other than a nod or a hello. He also ate lunch at a cafeteria where I did, but I never noticed him there though he said he noticed me all of the time. THE LINK - I organized a good-bye party for a casual friend at a local hang-out and Rick (the hubby) was a friend of a friend of this friend. At some point during the evening, we accidentally ran into each other and the rest is history.

My sales theory - Every person I met I looked at like a contact (like selling a product) of everyone of those contacts 10% turned out to be leads (people with whom I had some interest)of the leads 10 - 20% would pan out to be something more. Reality is that it is a VERY small number out of 100 people; You may have some level of interest in 10; out of those 10 there are 1 to 2 that may work out to be a date/dating.

This was work my friend! (I am not saying you are not working at it just sharing my experience) Every experience did not turn out to be fun, but I always found something enjoyable though there were times that I really had to work to find it. I also had to turn loose people who I had no interest in, but were interested in me...Sorry to say that I used the "friends" speech myself from time to time and did remain friend with some...I tell you this because I didn't want to paint a rosey picture. I am huge romantic at heart and it wasn't until I realized that there was a "business" aspect(not employment) to ones life that it actually started to become easier and clearer to me. In the end, the experience was fun more than it wasn't and only further enriched my life from many aspects.

What I would change - I would have done the internet thing, but with very light emphasis and starting with coffee or lunch NOT dinner or drinks. ALSO, I would have volunteered more, but that is a 37 year old looking back on what one did in their mid to late 20's.

Some food for thought...
 
Cal Poly SLO

Jeff, I was there in the mid-70's. I lasted only one year, as the curriculum was so Stepford I couldn't subscribe to the program. Being from the Bay Area and advising I was considering transferring to Berkeley, I was branded a "radical" by others there who came from the "red" portion of the state, as most Cal Poly students do. Basically, that school was used by parents as a type of day care center for kids they were afraid to send off to college on their own. Just my take on things.

I don't mind if a town has a gay scene going on. I don't have to participate, and it's there if I want. I'm no Castro clone (glad that whole look/scene has run its course) but do enjoy shopping in that area. You will find unique products that you won't find in mainstream stores. We regularly stop in at Cliff's Variety store when we're up that way. I could spend a lot of time in there. It was the only place I could find a pull-chain light fixture canopy for the 80-year old one that went bad over our kitchen sink. So I'm not opposed to a gay district, but I wouldn't want to live in one 24/7.

SLO County is a fairly red one. Drive through there on your way to L.A. and everybody's Joe Law Enforcement, barely hitting the speed limit in the fast lane if you're lucky, and 100% obstinate about getting out of the way. The mentality there ruins the place. Not to mention getting blown off the sidewalk by the wind on what would otherwise be a beautiful day.

And Vern, I'm glad to hear you're considering men your age or older. Give it time. He'll show up.

Ralph
 
Vern, you're 31

The same age I was when I met Mike, my LTR. I had gone through a 4-year dry spell of my own making. I came out of a very toxic abusive relationship that soured me on everything. My best pal at that time had his license pulled for DWI, so he used to beg me to drive him into NYC to hit the bars. I used to take along a book and sit quietly at the bar and read until it was time to go. I was amazed at how many guys thought that was a "come-on prop" and would come over to talk. Unfortunately for them, my mind-set at the time was in "buzz-off" mode. Shot down in flames, in other words. Finally I met Mike quite by coincidence through my DWI pal and the rest was history. It can and will happen to you, too. Just be open enough to recognize opportunity, I think that's the best advice going on here in this thread.
 
Hey Hey!

I'm not 31 YET, I'll be 31 in 5 months lol. Trust me I really am taking all of this advice into concideration and will do what I can to act on it. I do want to thank you all for what you have shared with me as it is coming in a time of need. This coming weekend I'm going to keep an eye out on any events or get togethers that may be happening. They have been having gay mens mixers lately, but thanks to my work schedule I haven't been able to make an appearance at one. I've heard they're quite fun and entertaining without the feeling of being in a noisy bar with a bunch of drunks or whores and loud music. My hetero friends do what they can to keep me busy, but they don't seem to know many other gay people at all. The few that they do know I've met and trust me, they weren't anyone I'd concider dating since one lives 200 miles away and the other still sponges off mommy and daddy. I have a hard enough time supporting myself, let alone someone else. Don't get me wrong, I can definately shell out for a decent date, but I'm so not paying anyones bills lol. People tell me I'm still young, but that won't be for very much longer. I've been going at this since I was 18 and it hasn't been a very fun ride so far. I mean, the occasional date here and there and even romps in the hay, and yes I enjoyed those, but that wasn't what I'm looking for. I know this takes time, the right people, and the proper self confidence, which I will admit I need more of. I was much worse years ago and it is building lol. I'll keep you guys posted on any progress that may occur. And again, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart, for all the advice and heartfelt words. You guys have no idea how much I do appreciate them. I do hope to someday be able to thank you all in person!
 
People tell me I'm still young, but that won't be fo

I understand that our sub-culture favors youth, (boys in there 20's) but I am glad I graduated from the 20's club. With life experience, comes a wealth of growth, insight, and character (at least one hopes) which combine to offer the world more than just an Abercrombie & Fitch body...In the large scheme of things you are young and have many years of life to live. None of this is said to tell you that you should be OK with being alone, but please consider that life still holds much for you. Unmarried/Unpartnered is just ONE description of a huge list of what and who you are. AND for the rest of your life, on an ever changing list of descriptors there will always be a few that you will not be happy with.
 

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