Skeletons in my Closet!

[mickeyd]

We have ignition ! Congrats.

 

How many days till lift-off?

 

[jetcone]

that is a loud motor

are you installing bushings between the baseplate and motor??

Running an hour and 1/2 would leave one deaf.

 

Cool project can't wait to see the finish line!!

 

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Mickeyd:
Not sure. Got a VFD problem. I really wanted this machine to operate on 110V, however I can either get a VFD the operates with the same voltage, or get one of the better ones that operate on 220V 1 phase. Either way it's going to cost several hundred dollars. The GE AF-300 mini VFD that I used for the Blue Whirlpool is really a cheap made VFD, as what goes to the motor from it is not clean, and you really hear over time how nasty the signal is. That is the drawback of using a device to which the input is 110V 1 phase and the output is 220V 3 phase.

qualin:
What you heard was the rotary phase converter and a 1.5 HP 460V 3 phase motor starting up on 230V 3 phase. Later in the video you hear the motor in the GE combo.

 

[tolivac]

Strange place to find a rotary phase convertor-One of my freinds that works out here at the transmitter site-he has retired now-has a machine shop in his garage-his lathe and milling machine need three phase power.Of all places he found a phase convertor----one of the pawn shops here in town.The shop operator didn't understand what it was-he had it marked as a motor-Bobby was able to buy it for only a few dollars!Now he can run his lathe and mill!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

The VFD

Well it's here! ABB ACS-141-1K1-1-U Too bad it's made in China.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Control wires go in this side. Heatsink is part of the mount.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Mounting supports DIN rail too!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

{

 

[supremewhirlpol]

power input

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Output to the motor and braking

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Case off - terminals
The capacitors in these devices can store a VERY nasty surprise. Be careful when operating with the case off.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

VFD HIM

 

[supremewhirlpol]

New and unused!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

It's been sitting in a warehouse forever in a day->new old stock. It's ABB brand. ABB is known for their switching gear, especially in medium and high voltage. Their VFDs are very good too, similar to AB, and Yaskawa in quality. Model ACS-141-1K1-1U: The 140 series, 1 phase, 1K1:.55KW, heatsink version, 200V range. I went with the much more expensive ABB 220V version due to the motor being run several hours and due to the fact that VFD modules that power and control 3 phase motors from 110V product produce a nastier, more noisy output than the 220V 1 phase and 3 phase models. 110V models don't last as long, are not as efficient, and can eventually cause issues with the the insulation of the motor, due to the much more noisy output. This noisy output has lots of unpleasant things like voltage and current transients that are amplified due to the switching frequency of the IGBT's, the capacitances created by the switching, and the fact that one is trying to power a device that requires a higher voltage, and 3 phases, all from 110V 1 phase.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Kinda hard finding a place to mount the VFD in the GE combo. You want to mount it in a place that does not have the opportunity to get wet, or very warm. The top right front looks good for now.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

DIN rail makes mounting and removal more manageable.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Time to wire and test the VFD. This test is just to ensure that the VFD works. I've temporarily rugged up the belt and pulley system. I'm using one of the original idler pulleys for this test. It will be replaced with a much better one later. Usually the VFD has a test program or has factory settings for basic functionality. I wire the mains in, and the motor out.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

I did some things here and there on the mechanical side to get it working just for the test.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

L

 

[supremewhirlpol]

I put the VFD in "local" mode. Lets proceed with testing.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

It looks happy! Link to the test video below.

 

[tolivac]

Watched the video-GREAT-looks like the Motor and drive work well.glad the experiment is progressing.If you absolutly had to use a 120V input VFD-if its output could be cleaned up somewhat by running it thru a 1to 1 3Ph transformer.As you would know AC motors HATE square waves!

 

[qualin]

Looks like you have the full range of motion and speeds set up. I'm guessing at 60 Hz output, that drum is spinning at 300 RPM?

Which leads into the question, how fast did these originally spin?

Looks to me like you have to do some programming now.

Did these originally just work in one direction only or did they reverse, stop, reverse, etc for the washing action?

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Rex:
That's true. That's why I chose a motor rated for inverter duty. Yeah, but still not very good for the motor. 3 phase Isolation transformer would probably work.

qualin:
For wash: 47-51 RPM For spin: 215 rpm With this VFD, I can push the motor to 300Hz, but it won't do the motor or the machine any good. At 60Hz the motor is 3425 RPM. I have made to computations of what frequency I need to set the VFD to in order to achieve the proper RPMs. At some point I may post the computations. During the test video, the motor and VFD worked OK, but not its best. Going through the manual, there are ~52 different parameters that I will need to program. I'll post that after I create the Idler pulley.

The GE combo tumbles in one direction for wash, and the other direction for spin, so I've been told.

 

[qualin]

Ok, so that makes me wonder now..

Are you going to "Preserve" the way it washed and dried, by having it tumble in one direction for each mode?

Or are you going to modernize it a bit and have it do the tumble clockwise/pause/tumble anti-clockwise sequence for washing and then perhaps just a straight normal unidirectional tumble for drying?

It seems to me that with that VFD and a small micro-controller board, the possibilities are endless...

... and that all the vintage timer would be good for would be for putting the machine into the right mode at the right time and the controller does the rest.

Something like an Arduino controller would do the trick quite nicely, but I'm not sure how far you want to modernize this machine..

 

[tolivac]

Melvin-"invertor" duty motors have heavier insulation than standard duty motors-so as to withstand the "grunge" that VFD's can generate.The transformers and reactors were especially intended for motors that weren't made to operate off a VFD.I remember a crude VFD I made---involved a VERY high power audio amp(surplus Altec Lansing A287 beleive it was --a 300W tubed amp from a drive movie theater)and an audio oscillator.The motor I used was an old syncronous teletype motor-I could run it from several Hertz on up to about 300 as you are doing.The torque of that motor changed greatly at the extreme ends-and the tubes in the amp were working much harder-the amp had a 120V output-guess just for that type use or for a lab shaker table motor.It also had 70.7V(like stand PA system)and 4,8,16 ohms.When you used that amp with a speaker-sounded very good.Used two 845 tubes in the output-and 866 mercury vapor rectifiers You drove it with a separate amp-used a 50W mono amp to drive the Altec.Altec made an amp especially for the purpose of driving that amp but didn't have it.A later Altec amp used 6BA6 tubes and 813's so it had higher gain.wished I had one of those.But it was still fun to use that Atec amp I had as a "VFD"Ended up selling it to an Altec collector.Since my Altec "VFD" would generate a sine wave-no filtering required-but--the amp could not start larger motors-like a 1/2Hp one from a washer-or a disposer.And of course those motors would be limited in the frequency range.the teletype motor ran from 120V.Oh how I remember those teletype machines well-common staple in radio,TV stations and newspapers.UPI provided the machines for the stations or newspapers teletype rooms-got the motor from a hamfest.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Time to do some wire tracing! Wires are VERY filthy. Very important to see the color of the wires. Cleaning the inside of the console.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Timer is missing a bolt.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Everything else in the console looks good.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Something is missing!