Speaker Surround Re-Foam

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michaelman2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
1,512
Location
Lauderdale by the Sea, FL
Had a post up a few years back asking for advice on speakers. Started the quest on the fantastic suggestions some of you guys gave me. It finally came time to re-foam the Cerwin Vega D9 pair. My first inclination was to take the speakers to a pro and have them repaired. Guys, for once I did something like this without a complete mess. Ordered a kit from a recommended place in Florida, watched the YouTube tutorial and well... I think they are pretty damn good for someone who did not even know how to disconnect the speaker from the cabinet. The prep work of removing the disintegrating old foam and glue from the surround as well as the cone was time consuming but proved to be not as difficult as one might imagine ( seriously, I am not in anyway mechanically inclined ).

Got the gunk off of the speaker and then the re-foam kit had the new Cerwin Vega red/orange foams and a perfect adhesive. I just knew I would be throwing my hands up and schlepping the speakers to a pro to finish I am proud to say they look and sound like new. If you ever need to have the speaker surrounds re-foamed, do it. Also the suggestions you guys gave me were the best, with regard to which speakers would be good and could handle classic rock and dance music LOUDLY played. Vendor for the kit : Simply Speakers, St. Pete, FL.

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Tim, I agree, mine sound great. I still cannot believe I had the patience or concentration to finish these. It took all of the Ritalin and Adderall I coulg get my hands on ( completely kidding)',,,I will take a picture of the completed speaker tomorrow and post it. You are right about Simply Speakers corp, very nice to work with. Very reasonable in cost and the tutorial on line was a godsend.
 
Thanks for posting an update, Michael. Congrats on a satisfying job well done.

I've been putting off doing two sets of vintage Advents for a while now but I'm not great with glue and have been afraid I'd have to take the dog to the vet to have a cone removed.

I watched a couple of the Simply Speaker videos, they seem to do a good job explaining the procedure.

Post a couple pics of your system as well when you photo the speakers, I think we should have another vintage audio thread soon.
 
Hey Ben...was a lot simpler than I could have ever imagined....glad your experience with Speaker repair folks was good as well. As promised I have photos of the finished product and the old reciever that started my quest for old school, heavy duty audio. Sorry the pic of both are not great quality. Both the speakers and the reciever are as heavy as can be. Cumbersome and heavy, but boyyyyy they sound great.

Also Gansky...I am not by any stretch coordinated with glue of any kind. This adhesive is really perfect for this kit. It is somewhat fast curing/drying, however it was not like some contact adhesives that once it is stuck it is STUCK. This provides enough immediate adhesion to allow for the adjustment of the surround (if necessary ) Really neither of mine had to be readjusted, the tutorial says that they really center / adjust themselves, and they do.. The adhesive smells like the old model airplane glue and the viscosity is somewhat similar to what I remember of that type of glue

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Incompetence with glue is one reason I never got around to refoaming one pair of speakers. Unfortunately, I don't have them any longer--I sent them packing a few months ago, thinking that'd I'd probably never get around to fixing them, or if I did, I'd make a huge mess of it, anyway. Now I sort of regret that decision, although in some ways I don't miss the speakers (they have some personal history I want to forget).

But...having read the above, I may give the idea of refoaming some thought if I encounter intersting speakers that need to be refoamed.
 
"Funny that it is always the woofers that the original foam dries up and dies, no matter which brand."

I can't remember for sure. But I've looked at many, many speakers over the years in thrift shops that needed refoaming, and as far as I can recall, it was always the woofers. Maybe speaker makers used some other technology for other drivers, maybe it's just the larger movements of the woofers that cause the problem.

There are other surround materials that don't have the ripping problem of the foam. For a long time, I thought that would be a better idea. Interestingly, though, I've read suggestions in the last year that other surround materials have their own aging problems, and aren't so easily fixed. So the foam surround may have one advantage in that it can be easily replaced.
 
Nice Marantz receiver. No direct experience, but older Marantz has a good reputation.

I actually know an audio industry professional who has a Marantz receiver or amp at home. I don't knwo what else he has, apart from a high end digital to analog convertor. He has had better systems, but downsized when he moved to this area. While I gather he plans to eventually get a better system, he's happy with what he has. And when you think about it, it's a huge endorsement that someone who is a professional, and works with audio equipment all day long, can go home and be happy with a 30-some year old Marantz.
 
Hey Way up and Lord.... Yep believe me I never thought I could do the repair and I have to say that the tutorial and glue made the difference .

Lord ... I worked all summer as a lifeguard while in HS I had my eyes set on that Marantz receiver and when I purchased it I was in love with it. It has moved with me more times than I can count and had been put in storage, unused for over twenty years. I got a hankering for my iTunes to be played LOUD so I went to a Best Buy, on line everywhere looking for a system that could handle loud classic rock and dance tunes. I really could not find anything except the surround sound types of systems and then the high dollar audiophile systems. I decided to go in the attic and pull out that Marantz system.

Got on here and asked for suggestions for speakers that could be driven by the receiver. Got some great suggestions and ended up purchasing several types of speakers. The Cerwin Vega D9 set was one set I found on the advice of a member here. I took the Marantz receiver to a guy to make sure all of that storage had not affected it in a negative way. I go in and the guy said " I will buy this from you , now, you will not find anything produced today that will sound as good as this thing for under five thousand dollars". I wanted to keep it and it checked out it worked like a charm, no adjustments or replacements needed. I am sure my neighbors have heard a subsonic boom within the past few years and just not known the origin. Lol.

Funny, each time I power in that receiver I fall in love with that blue glow all over again. The cool thing is that I can use that receiver with an external power amp and it will really throw a punch. This idea was given to me by one of the members. I always learn something here!
 
The Marantz as "reward" for a summer of lifeguarding was a pretty good reward! In the late 1990s, I casually knew a high school kid who rewarded himself with some sort of pocket computer. I got the impression the computer wasn't terribly useful then, and--if the guy still has it--it's probably little more than a novelty to play with a couple tiems a year. Meanwhile, that Marantz receiver is giving you real service.
 
 
Timely discussion!  I have a pair of Advent Legacy IIIs dating to March 1995.  Haven't examined them in several years.  Pulled the covers and found the woofer surround on both completely disintegrated.  :-(  Time to seek-out a repair kit.

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Oh, yes, if using the Marantz seriously with iTunes or other digital files, it would be worth paying attention to the digital equipment used if you aren't doing so already. A cheap dock (iPod/iPhone/iWhatever) or a cheap PC sound board is probably not going to have the sort of quality the Marantz has. Keep in mind the system is only as good as the signal fed into it.

I have no idea what products are good choices. I am, I'm afraid, horribly behind the times as for digital audio. Most of my serious listening uses LPs. A local dealer had a system on display with Peachtree digital to analog conversion that sounded decent--at least for digital. I think this link is for the product in question:

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/dac-it-x-digital-to-analog-converter.html
 
Note that there are a zillion other digital to analog converters out there. As always, one needs to figure out what one specifically needs (features, performance, price, etc), and then find the right match...
 
DAD. Simply Speakers has the surround kit for those Advent speakers. Which by the way are great speakers! Believe me, as I mentioned several times above.. If "I " can do this repair anyone can. I seriously had to call the Simply Speaker place to ask how to get the speakers out of the cabinet.

I actually have the input on the Marantz fitted with the double male cord with a small plug that fits into my iPad and phone .. The entire library is digital and I have a mixing board where I am able to adjust the level of each frequency. There may be something better that I do not know about. And Lord, you are right I saved and saved for that Marantz receiver..

.. That entire summer I would go the the local store that carried Marantz ( HiFi Buys) and the sales people must have f thought I was obsessed and I was obsessed.

What I did not know that my grandfather had actually bought the receiver for me and my mom made him hold it and not tell me until I had earned the money for it. It was 620.00 USD and that is a lot now, but in 1979 it was a used car. I would pick up any shift they would have me and by the end of the summer I looked like a pirate in an Errol Flynn movie, was all teeth and eyes. Lol
 
There may be something better that I do not know about.

As I said, there are a lot of choices out there... I'm not very well versed on the possible choices--this is not something I've even contemplated for myself (I have "just a phone cell phone" and I have neither a tablet, nor an iPod).

However, it should be possible to better the sound from an iPhone/iPad. There are ways one can take a digital signal from iPhone/iPad, and then convert it to analog. This should--in theory, at least--give better sound, since better converter chips and analog circuitry can be employed. Both Peachtree products above can be used in such a scheme, although the one in #13 would apparently need additional hardware to interface with an iPhone/iPad. Also there are iPhone docks from serious audio companies. One (as an example) is at the link below.

In reality, of course, I suppose it's subjective as to how much value there may be in doing this. It's one of YMMV deals. Plus, of course, one needs to find the right product--there are probably plenty that sound worse than an iPad alone, and many that probably aren't worth the money.

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,rSeries,iPod-Docks,rdockuni.htm
 
I have generally taken all my drivers in for re-coning and surround replacement and let my local speaker service place do the work. Its not a difficult job, but because of that they don't charge that much either. I'll let them have the liability of screwing it up.

The task is a lot easier on smaller diameter drivers, I've never replaced a surround in anything smaller then a 12" though. I have a pair of JBL 2235 15" sub drivers waiting to go out to Midwest Speaker. They will charge ~$50/ea and I get a one year warranty on the job to boot.

As for the Sirius/XM sound quality it is indeed just rubbish. They are way over their bandwidth allotment on the downlink with all the channels they have currently. They could reduce the total number of channels but they fear they will lose more subscribers then they will by offering nasty compressed feeds. Some channels are worse, the oldies channels seem particularly bad, we had on 60's on 6 at work the otherday and I couldn't stand it. The SiriusXM sound is about like a 64k MP3 in quality. I stream Pandora off the web into our system and it sounds just fine for background music.
 
Yep, my speaker place in Atlanta wanted 65.00 per speaker to replace the surrounds. I went with the 27.00 for both and did it myself. Doing the cone would be a more involved process and I would leave that to a pro and if too much I would simply purchase a new driver.

Lord: thanks for the link. I am out of town and do not have the best connection here, will check this out when I get home ..Tks again.
 
My set of AR-3a's used a cloth surround on the speakers, they'll last forever. But the foam surrounds on my JBL4311's are still holding fine. The foam that goes around the tweeter cone disintegrated, but JBL still makes those for about $2.29 each. So I replaced those. Not bad considering the speakers were purchased in 1977.
 
Lord: thanks for the link

You're welcome!

I'll probably be seeing someone who has current, relevant experience this week, and I'll be sure to ask for other ideas. If any worth mentioning come up, I'll post them.
 
Success ... and not as much

 
The first driver came out perfect.  I was concerned when cleaning off the old adhesive that I was pulling a layer of paper off the cone (probably I wasn't), but that apparently was the best route because ....

... I played much more conservative cleaning the 2nd driver, left a layer of old adhesive which unfortunately was very grabby-and-sticky when gluing the foam, not conducive to aligning it very well on the edge.  The frame gluing also grabbed very quickly.  I had trouble centering the cone, it ended up just a smidgeon away from dragging on the coil toward the left.  SimplySpeakers does have replacement drivers if that becomes necessary.
 
I was fascinated at the thought of repairing a speaker. We have a 18" driver in a subwoofer at the theatre that's blown. I noticed that simply speakers had the recone kit for $100. I watched the video and wondered if I had the patience to do this. Then I wondered if I had enough workspace to do it.

I called the local music store, which happens to be an authorized JBL repair shop. For $224 they're doing it. That extra $124 is money well spent of the owners, for me not having to screw it up and get in trouble.

We've got to keep our local shops in business before we don't have any to turn to. Amazon and Wal-Mart sure won't help us keep our vintage treasures going!
 
Hey DAD... Sorry to learn of the trouble on the second speaker. Have you called Simply Speakers and given them the scenario you describe above? My hunch is that if you do, they can help you make this right .... Worth a shot. They were extraordinarily helpful to me and I am sure that this level of service would be across the board. Hell, I was not smart enough to even know how to disconnect the speaker from the cabinet. I called ( embarrassed ) and they were very cool. Regarding the adhesive in the second speaker not being fully removed, I seem to remember in the video tutorial, he mentions that if some adhesive is left it is not really a problem. Only if there are foam particles left. You think maybe the new glue reacted with the old and took longer to cure? When I was working on mine I did take note that they said to keep pressing the surround to the speaker until it held. It did take a few minutes for it to really set. Let me know how things turn out.. I hate the idea that you feel one of the speakers could become damaged due to the repair.
 
We've got to keep our local shops in business

Yes...although one challenge is finding a local shop that actually is worth anything...

With audio equipment, I've had so many frustrations with local dealers. A couple of examples, naming no specific names, just that these are Seattle area stores:

1. Around 2001, I needed to buy a phono cartridge. Old cartridge's stylus was old, and no longer available. I talked with one dealer. One sales person was a young enthusiast who thought that instead of a cartridge, I should be considering a better tonearm for the turntable, which, of course, does nothing to fix an issue of a worn stylus. Another salesperson was spouting off about return policies that didn't exist. At another store, they only were interested in one cartridge line, which left me feeling cold. I finally cracked, and went mail order.

2. Around 2000, I wandered into a store near University of Washington. I was curious. The salesman was one of those "I don't have time for you unless you show me a wad of hundreds."

3. Queried about 78 RPM record replay, one dealer was quick to push some friend who does 78 to CD transfers. Yes, a reasonable idea, but, as one person with zero high end audio knowledge commented to me: perhaps one might be interested in playing the 78s as intended.

I could come up with more examples...

While I find this irritating for myself, I can, at least, survive. I know enough about audio equipment, and can do research. But what really disturbs me is that there are people who know little, and wander into one of these lion dens...

There are good dealers out there, of course. The challenge is finding them.
 
 
Local speaker repair or AV-specialty shops??  No such services are here.

Wanna buy a hi-fi or TV in this town?  Wal-Mart, Radio Shack, Western Auto, or several rent-to-own outfits.
 
Cone Reconditioning

This sounds very cool! I have heard about it but never heard about anyone every doing it. I have been lucky to not have to go this route as of yet.

Sounds like success for you Michael and a few others. Sorry Glen about your speaker that pulled to the left. Can you cut it after it has dried and center it before reapplying?

I just want to give you all a heads up if you go to thrift stores and such where stereo speakers are sold. I have been collecting vintage audio from tube stuff onward for years. Speakers also. If you ever find a pair of DYNACO Speakers...no matter what they look like, grab them! They were a product of Denmark! I will bet you that they will be the best speakers that you have ever heard in your life. The sound is HUGE! You have to hear them to appreciate. And the base cones outer's are filled with tire rubber! Keep a look out and don't pass them up. Any size are amazing! I have been fortunate to find quite a few pairs over the years. It has been awhile since I have seen any. They are on Ebay and sometimes on Craigslist time to time. Get you a pair! Blow your socks off!

B
 
Dynaco Speakers Pictures

Here are a few pictures. They don't look like much but oh my the sound....

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