standard detergent in front loader

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pulsatron

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Jun 9, 2005
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I have recently been putting to the test the claim that you MUST!!! use low sudsing detergents in front loaders, well for the past 2-3- weeks, I have been using normal "Surf", powder in the Bosch F.L.,as my little Deli has been out of Persil for a while,and I have not noticed a great deal of difference, although I am using a little bit less powder than suggested so I now wonder if this is not just some rort by detergent powder and machine manufacturers to market a few different products.
Some other opinions perhaps?
P.S. Do any Aussies out there know what happend to or remember Bio-Ad soaker?
Cheers to all and warmest wishes to all for 2006.
 
You should be careful using less quantities of regular detergents in frontloaders with heating elements, especially on higher temperatures. If you use less detergent there might not be enough water softener ingredients in the water which could result in excessive calcium build up on your heating element. That will cause a higher energy usage and in the end result in a damaged heating element. This all depends on the hardness of your water ofcourse.
 
I know a lot of folks don't care for the HE detergents and just scale back the amount of regular detergent for their front load machines. But it still rankles me that we even have to make that choice. Since today;s detergents don't require suds to perform, it would be so much easier if all products were controlled suds in the first place - that's why I am so anxious to round up all the FAB powder I can - it (along with FResh Start and Ajax Ultra) are the only controlled suds products out there. Much better - and much better rinsing!

Actually I have recently used the FAB liquids and they too are somehwat lower sudsing than others. Unfortunately, since Colgate dumped their detergent business - very hard to find.
 
well, when i had a front loader Hoover Zodiac while the Whirlpool was sick, i carried on using my regualr Bio Zet but just using half a scoop instead of a full scoop, the washes were always nice and sudsy without hindering the wash action at all, it worked fine and the final rinse was always clear. Bio Zet states in the back of their boxes that it may be used on front loaders as long as the dosage is reduced to half a scoop for heavy soiled loads and less for light soiled loads. I think its because it has stronger enzymes or somethin. Anyway, i love bio zet and even tho i do sometimes buy other brands (mainly Radiant) i always switch back to Bio Zet eventually.
Take care
Matt
 
lets get down to it...

someone here must know if the "he" detergents are a scheme to get peoples money. i can understand the suds theory but ive used regular detergent in front loaders MANY times and have never had problems with suds. whats the truth?
 
Methinks you are on to something....

Have been using regular detergents (Cheer Free & Gentle powder and liquid, now along with Tide CW), for ages now with great results. Though if one reads THS one would swear the only detergent in the world for front loaders is Persil.

You may notice that many "HE" detergents were rolled out with much fan fare.. Purex, Tide, Gain, Cheer, Wisk, only to vanish as fast as they came. Tide HE is easily found here, one has to hunt a bit for Wisk HE, but the rest are very hard to find indeed.

Tide is and probably has always been a high sudsing detergent, strange Tide Coldwater while can be sudsy in hot or warm water, the suds almost vanish in cold water,and by the third rinse the water is clear from our front loader. This is something one could not reach with Tide HE which made tons of suds, no matter what the dose and was very hard to rinse cleanly.

All that is required for good cleaning with a front loader is a low sudsing detergent. Without foam making chemicals, it is quite easy to reach the proper dosage for good soil removal/suspension,whitening/brightening et al.

Someone actually posted over on THS one "needed" an HE detergent to keep colours from running. That is a load of flannel, and am here to tell you have not had any problems with colours running using Tide Coldwater or Cheer.

Methinks this "HE" detergent thing is to get people into spending more money after they paid so much money for a front loader. The pitch is "you paid so much for your new machine, why not pay more for the proper detergent to get the best results". Anyone notice this is the same pitch car dealers/makers use to get one to buy preimium petrol?

Front loaders have been pretty much standard in American laundromats for ages now, and have yet to see ONE person using "HE" detergent. for that matter P&G who makes vend sizes of all and sundry versions of Tide, does not make Tide HE in a size for laundromats. Now one would assume given the large captive audience P&G would have lept at the chance, but guess they are happy snookering home users to be bothered.

One other side of the coin in this is that with proper front loader design, especially for rinsing, it is possible to get great results using most any type of detergent (within limits). However many American front loaders use so little water in both wash and perhaps a tad bit more in the rinses that using a clean rinsing detergent is mandatory.

We have spoken about this before, how commercial front loaders flush the sump during rinsing to get all the suds/soap out before the next rinse. Without doing this excess foam/suds will remain present for the next cycle. This dilutes the rinsing process as the rinse water will have to cope not only with soap/detergent in the laundry, but whatever is left over from the previous rinses as well.

Failure to spin between rinses and or reach proper spin speeds also leads to soap/detergent residue. From what I have seen all these modern uber front loaders from Bosch, LG and others suffer from the same defect in some way or another, they are "spin challenged". Rather than just getting on with it, they seem to be programmed to require the most exacting proper load balance before spinning. If machines were designed a tad more robust, with more steel and less plastic, they could withstand slightly out of balance loads, and perhaps the odd really out of balance wash. No one is advocating allowing the unit to bash itself to death, but there has to be a happy medium somewhere.

Launderess
 
saes pitch for Omomatic

Launderess,
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the sales pitch you mentioned, because here in Australia you would think that you must use Omomatic and nothing else and indeed from memory if you read the Omomatic box it says something like'You've chosen a superior machine so use a superior detergent...Omomatic" or words to that effect and also reading the box it;s great sales pitch is also ''All front load manufaxcturers reccommend ONLY Omomatic and the names of the various manufacturers appear on the box e.g. Miele,Bosch,Ariston,Whirlpool etc.etc.
 
Most high sudsing regular detergents are cut with a cheap adulterant, namely, sodium sulfate. Most HE detergents are not cut in this manner, or not nearly as much. Sodium sulfate adds little to the cleaning ability of a laundry product, it just bulks it up and may make it pour better (less caking, etc). So.... if one thinks that when one adds slightly less regular detergent than HE detergent, and therefore is getting some sort of a bargain... one would be wrong. One is simply reducing the cleaning ability of the washer.

From what I can tell, major brands of HE detergents are priced about the same per load as regular brand-name detergents. So I don't see the evidence that detergent mfg's are price-gouging gullible front loader owners.

I agree that suds are not necessary for good cleaning, but surfactants are necessary. I suspect many of the "HE detergents are a rip-off" crowd never have to deal with heavily soiled laundry loads. I'm talking about jeans encrusted with clay soil and mud, and shirts covered in axle grease. For mildly soiled office or mall clothing, sure, a dollop of regular detergent may work just fine. But for really dirty laundry, reach for a good HE powder (better yet, boost it up with STPP).
 
Sodium Sulfate may be heavy with non-ultra detergents or the bargian brands, but do not believe it is so with TOL and even many TOL brands. Case in point would be detergents such as Purex, Fab,Fresh Start and Ultra Ajax which clean quite well in front loaders with "reduced" dosage. In fact more and more powders (what is left of them) are "ultra" versions and therefore quite concentrated. Large boxes of detergent of which half the contents were fillers are mostly gone from shelves, again except for bargian brands like Trend. This is the same with liquids like "Extra" detergent, which is mostly water.

Another thing is that every single "HE" detergent sold in the United States cleary gives dosage for non front loading washing machines. In fact the dosage for all and sundry are WAY more than required for use in front loaders. Tide,Wisk, Purex "HE" detergents are all the same on this; use the dosage recommened on the box and you will most certianly end up with acute over sudsing (more so with the liquid versions). Tide HE in particular is no less "low sudsing" than many of it's cousins, IMHO.

My totally favourite detergent until it was discontinued was Wisk tablets. Which though meant for top loaders, was "HE safe". All one did was crumple up a pack or two and put the contents into a jar. One or in rare cases two tablespoons got my laundry clean. Could kick myself for not stocking up on Wisk tablets before they were taken off the shelves.

While one does not launder "greasy ovealls" or those "caked with clay soil", do have my fair share of badly stained/soiled laundry (as any family will produce), and have no problems using Cheer (non HE).

Why do I perfer Cheer Free and Gentle? Well to start it does not contain OBA's which every single "HE" detergent (including Persil sensitive" does. It is totally scent free, and protects colours but does not contain bleaching agents. If I want to add oxygen bleach am free to do so, but this means one has a detergent that truly works for whites and colours without having to stock several versions.

Pricing:

It has only been recently that P&G amoung others lowered the price for "HE" detergents. When Tide HE was first launched it costs more than regular Tide. But P&G lets no files grow on them, the box of Tide HE while priced the same as regular Tide is SMALLER! So yes you pay the same $10.99 (local price) per box you get more product in the non "HE" versions of Tide. So in the end P&G still wins.

"Low foaming" detergents are made for professional/commercial laundries by P&G and other detergent makers, so what is the problem for the consumer market?

One bright spot in this is "All Small and Mighty" detergents. These liquids are designed for all types of washers and sport an "HE" marking on the front. They have a fresh rain scent smells quite nice, rather light and not at all over powering. Soon as I can spot some on sale, will try it out.

Tide Coldwater is another bright spot. Clearly because the detergent is designed for use in cold water, some changes were made to accomodate things that happen when washing in cooler temps. For one it is more powerful (according to P&G)than regular Tide, so one can use slightly less. As stated before it rinses quite clean, something Tide HE seems to have problems with. Finally it cleans better than most other detergents out there including Tide HE (according to Consumer Reports). While not "HE" rated, many people are using Tide CW in their front loaders with great sucess. Personally think P&G is working quietly beind the scenes, removing the foaming agents and other fillers in their detergents. This would take Tide back to a period in the 1960's and 70's where most all detergents could be used in all types of washers;front loading, wringer, twin tubs, and top loading. One adjusted the dosage to the amount of water the machine used, and in the case of twin tubs or wringers how many times the wash water was reused.

Launderess
 
I am inclined to agree with Sudsmaster---

If I used a front loading/HE washer more often, I would always use HE detergent. I have before.

Water and sewer are going up here, and sometimes I have had to push the "Extra Rinse" button to get non-HE detergents out of my clothes. That happened the most when I was washing full loads on a near-daily basis, and using Tide powder.

I am currently using all Small and Mighty, and like it a great deal. Since I do not currently drive, and have to take the bus a lot, sometimes money must be sacrificed for ease in handling.

When conventional automatics are banned (2007?) I believe that the price differences in detergents will even out, and performance of even the lower priced brands will improve.

A new age of detergent nirvana is coming to us, friends!

Lawrence/Maytagbear.
 
I'm actually torn on this subject. I agree alot with what Launderess has said. In 2000 I got a FriGEmore machine. Then the choices you had was the FriGEmore or Maytag. And as for chocies in HE detergent it was Tide, which in my market was either $10 or $11 for a box or bottle or Wisk at $6 a bottle--had suds in all rinses with both. Sold that condo with the washer and dryer and next condo had a new TL. Now I have and HE3. With this machine I have run the full gamit on detergents. While even tho as of right now my 2 favorite detergents are Purex HE and Sears Advanced formula ultra plus, I got to thinking........is using regular detergent all that bad at lower doses??

Years ago I had a westy front loader and all detergents had recommended dosage for FL's. So what has changed???--Detergents have become ultra (i.e they took out the fillers.) So wouldn't the same principal apply??? Which brings me to my next point that someone else earlier in this Thread pointed out...

P&G ,(for example) seems in my opinion, has been dragging it's feet in either bringing to the market more "HE" detergents, or reformulating their detergents for "use in all machines". Here in Florida you can get Tide in about a gazillion different "flavors". Comparing apples to apples here, Regular Tide comes in a 40 load box for $8 dollars. Regular Tide HE powder has 31 loads for the same $8 a box. Now if you do the math regular tide works out to be 20 cents per load where as Tide HE is 25 cents a load. Now that doesn't seem to be a lot at first but if you start adding up how many boxes one can use over lets say even 1 year, you start seeing the difference.

The way I see it is like this. In the late 40's and early to Imid 50's, many people were still kinda skeptical about "automatic" washers not doing as well as their good ole trusty wringers. Today it's much the same with HE machines as traditional TL's. I personally think that by 2007 with all the government imposed effecieny requirements being in place, the detergent market will have to follow suit. (or at least I hope). I just think that with detergents it's been very slow in coming. Many people still that that you need suds to clean when in actuality, suds do nothing except damage your machine weather it's top or front loading.
 
2 Cents

Hi Pulsatron,

I've used Biozet without an problems in a FL.

I prefer Radiant Matic as a daily driver.

For all the hype about omomatic, I found that it doesnt rinse well and there were usually suds left, unless I reduced the dose. My Miele manual warns about not using enough detergent as per louis's statement. However I've reduced the size of my scoop with Radiant Matic by 20ml's as I still getting too many suds.

When using a TL, I'm hard pressed to get a regular detergent that creates suds (Perhaps with the exception of Cold Power)

I probably havent added much to this thread, but its early :)
 
I agree with the statement that all laundry detergent should be HE. Suds are useless for any type of machine. It's been over 50 years since detergents replaced soap in the laundry and it is time for everyone to get over the "you'll have cleaning failures without mounds of suds!!" train of thought.

I read Consumer Reports washer ratings this week for fun as I was shopping or a washer. This is from the report:

Use the proper detergent. Any washing machine will do a better job if you use a good detergent. For traditional top-loaders, regular detergent is fine, and that's what we used. With front-loaders and high-efficiency top-loaders, you'll get the cleanest clothes with special low-sudsing detergent; that's what we used for these machines. In fact, using regular detergent can cause excessive sudsing in HE washers. Not only is it hard to rinse clothing, but the foam can cause problems with the washer. There are fewer HE products to choose from than with regular detergent, and they cost about 5 to 10 cents more per load than regular detergent. Consider the cost and convenience of ongoing detergent purchases when you're buying a washer.

After reading this I read CR's review of laundry detergent. Comparing only the ones rated "excellent" at cleaning you have Tide w/ Bleach Alternative (.37 load) Tide HE (.36 load) and Tide w/ Bleach (.33 load). The CR Best Buys were both HE - Kirkland Ultra HE (.14) and Sears Ultra Plus HE (.9)

It seems the HE detergents are right in line with, or even a better value than, regular detergents. The washing machine and laundry detergent folks need to put their heads together and share information. Why not just make all detergents HE, in a few different flavors, and make life easier for everyone?

Laundress - I agree with you about Wisk tablets. They were the best!!!
 
Well, if one is really concerned about cost, Smart & Final and various Cashn & Carry types of restaurant supply warehouses offers 40 lb pails of low-sudsing detergent for about $10. If you add a little STPP, White King, or even Borax, this stuff should clean better than using reduced amounts of a regular high sudsing detergent in your washer.

True, the low priced stuff probably won't have enzymes, but the quick wash times that many here seem to insist upon won't give enzymes much of a chance to do their stuff, anyway.
 

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