Starch cycles

[supremewhirlpol]

My Ipso machine has a Starch cycle program, and I would like to get the Ecolab system that is attached to this machine up and running. I have asked Lee's(sudsman) help through email concerning getting my system up and running, as he deals with this stuff everyday. Rather than just keeping the emails to myself, this knowledge may benefit people here in the event others get machines that have starch cycles. With Robert's and Lee's permission, I'm posting the email conversation we have had thus far.

<font color ="red">
Hi Lee,
Do you know anything about starch or how starch cycles work in commercial FL machines?

-Melvin</font>

<font color = "blue">Yes it depends greatly on the machine itself . most have a low water level that is actually a starch level. Depending on the starch used dry or liquid or sometimes both for super starch. Run times will vary. Most of the time 10 min in the standard in warm water. Some old time laundry managers just let the drain close on the washer and added 3 to 5 gallons of water and starch. and ran for 12 mins. What size machine are you wanting to starch in? Mac
</font>

<font color = "red">Hi Lee,
Thanks for the reply! I have a 40LB Ipso WE165 Commercial FL machine. It was used in a dry-cleaning business, and had a Ecolab system installed on the machine. One of the cycle options on the machine is Starch. I still have the Ecolab system on the machine, so when I turn the machine on, the system does respond. What I would like to do is to get the Ecolab system running. Do you know of any businesses where I can order liquid additives like Starch, and soap for these commercial machines? I can work on these big machines, but the chemicals that are used for the washing process are new to me. Please educate me on how it all works. Oh one other thing, would it benefit me to have a starch cycle?(for shirts, etc)

Thanks!

-Melvin</font>

<font color = "blue">What larger citys are you near or where do you live, I will help you find a company.. if there is a starch cycle on the machine it should be just what you need. without any changes.. As far as the supplies I would keep it as simple as possible use a good detergent of your choice and liquid starch . A 8 0z cup of starch would be a good starting point. for you then go up or down from there. I would not go with the alkali and sour system as that is a lot of extra expense that you dont really need if your just doing your own work.. Be careful about trying to starch reds deep blues and blacks.. they are very hard to starch and streak badly.If you must starch those colors you would be better of doing that in pan of water or in your sink with a few oz or liquid starch.. Jeans do pretty well in the washer itself as long as it is not overloaded.. mac</font>

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Lee,
The larger cities around me are Cincinnati, Hamilton, Dayton, and Columbus. I Live in Ohio. My plans are to use this machine for the bigger blankets, comforters, and duvets that I have. I also want to use it for occasional loads of jeans, whites that would otherwise take longer in the Primus, when I am pressed for time. I would use the starch cycle only for work clothes and white dress shirts. Are there different types and grades of starch that are used for these cycles?

 

[sudsman]

No, There is only Liquid and Dry Starch

the liquid is much easier to use and will do a better job. however as I said you must be careful on some colors reds dark blues and black will starch but not heavy. If you use too much on the colors they will streak and you will end up haveing to redo them.. no fun.. There are several brands Fautless is the best.Look in your yellow pages under laundry suppies and you should be abel to find a dealer in your area. Most of the time they are glad to sell to anyone. If they will not help you I can help you with others that will do so. Depending on if you want light med or heavy starch depends on the amount you will use. I use 4 oz on a 40 lb load for napkins and tablelinen for the drs dinning rooms.. and it is just right. (personally I think they should be made to eat regular food they make everyone else eat) Also it is a good idea to use a cup of vinegar in the starch bath it helps it "level"out better. I do know of other laundry managers that also use about a cap of Fabric softner in with the starch they say it helps the items iron easy. Try it you might like the way it does. use warm water about 100 for best results and dont over extract too much can actually take the starch out. As I remember that model has a starch cycle and should be fine.. Most plants use the color cycle for shirts and jeans. with the only difference is the amount of supplies used. always here to help anytime.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Ok, I see. I'll look around in the yellow pages and see what I can find. I'll try this out. Thanks Lee!

 

[sudsman]

Melvin

One thing you did not say, Do you have the manuals for that model machine? They will help you a LOT with the formulas that are on it. And should tell you every step in each one. Ipso is now a Alliance product. Not sure if they just bought Ipso usa or entire company. But most all parts will have to come thru them.. And they like a lot of others will offer very little help to private sector. So if you need parts or tec help when you call them make up a name like Snow White Laundry or Melvins Laundry ect... then they WILL be most helpful. Sometimes they can be a bit sharp but that is avg for them. I will also look and see if I still have any of the manuals for the 3 ipso we had here. I dont think I do but will check .They may be in maint, office at the sister hospital where maint. did come from until a few years ago. They are for the 165 models also.. Ipso put about 8 or 10 different models all in one book. (have no idea why) If you do not have a manual and dont want to mess with Alliance I will tell you how you can get the formulas and write them all down. a bit time comsuming but will work as well. If you can post a close up of the control panel I might be able to help you more with it. mac

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Lee,
No, I do not have the manuals or the wiring schematic. Some things are easy to fix on these machines without them, but things like timer issues are impossible. If you can find them, cool, if not no worries. I'm sure they can be located. Thanks for the tip!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Oh, I'll try to get you a close up of the controls later today.

 

[sudsman]

Melvin

You do know that there are a LOT of other places you can get parts for that machine don't you? I always try to use Alliance as a total LAST resort.

Sorry Guess the manuals are gone. There is no one left over at the hospital that knew where they were either. I did have a set and my maint. man had one but that WAS years ago.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Lee, here are those pictures of the controls.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

the middle

 

[supremewhirlpol]

The cycles and options

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Lee,
I know of a few online places where I can get general parts for this machine. For main timers and motors, I know of only 3 places. Used motors are cheap compared to a used main timer.

 

[sudsman]

there ae several large parts houses

that cater to the coin op s and have parts I will send you the info on them. that machine is all ready to go with the starch you should not have any problems.. Do you have the ecolab pumps also? with the tubes to the bottle. It would not be hard to put a hold switch on that type of timer so if you wanted to extend a step you could run it as long as you wish. I have done that on many of the older machines.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Yes, I have the Ecolab pumps, and one of the tubes. I will have to find a replacement for one of the pumps, as it is busted. Also, one of the switches on the circuit board will have to be replaced.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

the tube

 

[supremewhirlpol]

The hoses from the Ecolab go into the back of the drum. I have removed the hoses from the nozzles because they are clogged.

 

[sudsman]

Ecolab DOES NOT make that.

They have it made for them by another company.. sometimes they used Knight Pumps and sometimes they used other compaines,Some of them WILL sell direct to you.. Look on the inside and see if you can find who made it for them. Also sometimes on ebay you see them for sale. Sometimes jaintor supplys have pumps too. Check around try the area restraunt supplies too. they have dishwasher pumps that just might fit that. also check Grainger for chemical pumps they have some almost like it.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Are you sure? I've looked everywhere on the unit. All I see is Ecolab.

 

[sudsman]

Yes, They have never made their own pumps..

Could be when rebadged they covered up all the true mfg names. They are also VERY good at that too.Here are some of the other co. that sell Ipso parts.
Cheap Laundry Parts 1-877-608-2614
Appliance Parts Distributor 708-371-9595
Steiner Atlantic 800-333-8883
there are others too just have to look for them.
Ecolab used Knight Mfg for pumps for a long time and that very well may be one of them. Will see if I can find info for you as I did have some older brochures from them.. None of the new pumps are quite like that one. But it is possible it is NOT nearly as old as the machine is. Shirt laundries change chemical suppliers quite often so it could be only 5 or 6 years old. Keep in mind too that if you choose to use the pump system with your chemicals.. Liquid starch after a time of not being used will harden in the tube and can cause the pump to stick or not run at all. The formula of liquid starch and a liquid product that is used the world over and known to every child is very very close to the same.. Just take one sniff of liquid starch and then tell me what you think it really is.. And I will tell you, You WILL be shocked. I assure you.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Thanks for the parts info, I have to order some new belts!
The pump system has a manufacture date of 1987 on the side of the unit. By the pictures above, Was this pump a custom installation for this machine? Do you have automated pump systems on your machines? I am new to the chemicals used for commercial laundry. What are sour, alkali, etc. used for in the washing process? My only guess is that Starch used for clothing is similar to the sugar in candy, otherwise I don't know.

 

[sudsman]

I do have a total automated system.

But have it desinged so that with the flick of a switch we go to powder system.
Alkali is used as a builder for heavy soil loads and raises the ph to around 11 or higher. Sour is a nutralizer for the alkali and will bring down the ph to the range needed for proper finishing. Some plants like 7 .0 or 6.5 I like 6.0 it stops problems on the flatwork ironer and keeps everything nice and white. It got its name sour as the older laundry managers would taste the last rinse water with a finger .if it had a sour taste there was enough sour in the wheel if not one added another 2 or 3 oz. I trainied under one that taught me how to do that. But only did it a few times for his benefit.
There are ph indicators that tell you exactly where you stand when a drop is placed on a pc of linen. If the pump is a 87 or so model there are most likely not many parts for them now. Pumps design have changed a lot since that time. When you get your liquid starch take a sniff then tell me what you think is is.. Your first guess will probally be correct after only a short sniff. I would not worry with the liquid pumps on that machine anyway.. As I see it has a 3 or compartment flush in supply for dry supplies anyway.. I would use that , for the liquid starch just put a cup in when the machine starts and wash it down with some water.. Use of a good detergent should give you a good clean wash as that model did a good wash job. It is also very easy to get a buzzer and attach to the bleach light and the softener light to buzz when time to add bleach or softner remember to install a switch on them to turn them on or off after you have used them or they will signal the entire time the light is on.. I had a simple doorbell buzzer on the ones we had. to alert us to add bleach if we used liquid .. But most of the time we used dry bleach and put it in the # 2 supply pocket with the detergent. and used a liquid sour and sofener in the softener pocket and we did not have to go back to the machines until they were finished.

 

[sudsman]

Melvin a couple of pics of the products dispensers we use

The liquid system is P & G Proline use 3 products with it.. A VERY VERY costly system but does good quality work. and is almost fool proof. I call it wash by number. just match the wash formula with the P & G formula training someone takes less than a min, all they need to do is count to 8. As they are 8 different formulas.

 

[sudsman]

The dry products are Ecolab.

Very Good and VERY cost effective. a bit hard to train with as most cannot understand fractions or ounces anymore. Products are Soil Out a very high alkali detergent, Dry bleach (18%) sour with a brightner and softner. Also use some sears ultra plus in the orange box on the smaller and home machines. and on them AFB bleach Amway most of the time. The dry products still give far better quality work at a much lower price that do any of the liquid systems. My cost per lb. avgs. 3.5 cents , and @ 5500 to 6500 lbs per day I have to watch that cost VERY close.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Do you buy your Ecolab products online, or do you have a distributor? I'm trying to find rough price estimates for the products above. I've looked into prices for the liquid versions and they are VERY expensive! I think I will stay with the powder. With that being said, I can probably remove the pump system from the machine.

 

[sudsman]

Melvin

I have a rep that is here almost every week. We get contract pricing and it brings the pricing way down. We have contract pricing on just almost everything now. Any Equiptment, Linen, Chemicals, even the trucks. Ecolab is NOT a private sector friendly company in fact they are really very very nasty.I have never understood why either.. If a private party calls about a product or problem they will not help them at all. My Rep (which I have had since God was a baby) is VERY good to me. I get samples first before any of the others do. Also usually he gives me next day delivery on most all the products.Most all of the larger compaines Linen, machinery, chemicals all give us contract pricing and we must agree to not disclose what that is , however I can tell you that most of the time in is far less than half the list price.On almost all the items we buy. Most all the chemical compaines send reps by here on a regular basis. They get "points" for leaving samples. Some of the P & G reps even leave case lots of things to try. Lever use to do the same as well as many of the linen supply companies. Sheets, towels and either blankets all are big sample items.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

A no go for private sector! What other brands besides Ecolab are good to use? Without disclosing the details of the contract terms, can you please give me some advise on what to watch out for when it comes to contracts with suppliers? Like you said above, I could make up a company name and use that, but I'm thinking there is a minimum volume of supplies that I must use per month in order to get one of these contracts. At 5500-6500LB of laundry per day, I'd say you go through several boxes of Ecolab per day. How many machines do you have? What sizes are they? Do you have any pictures of them?

 

[sudsman]

melvin

Most all the companies want a min order of 1000 lbs or a skid full each order. shipping cost come in to play is the main reason.
Also most will want to send a rep to see you for the 1st order


At this time I have 9 Washers 2 150 lb machines 1 80lb, 4 40lb 1 20lb, and a home machine we consider a 18 lb. I will get you pics later today or this eve .

The washer in the corner is a 150 lb Edro Dyna Wash 3 pocket machine 50 lbs to each pocket.. my favorite ,click on it for a closer view.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Dyna Wash, it looks big! 3 50LB pockets? By looking at the controls, looks like you can do quite a bit with it.

Companies want min order of 1000 or skid full:

Looks like I will have to do some shopping. I don't think I even use close to 1000LB of powder per year!

 

[sudsman]

For laundry chemicals

try your area janitoral suppiers . They supply hotels nursing homes and hospitals, and almost all carry laundry products.or can get them. below are the pics you wanted.. very very hard to get all the machines in one pic..

 

[sudsman]

2nd

pic