STPP: Beneficial to Washer?

[danemodsandy]

I have a burning question that I think a few of you will have opinions on:

As we know, phosphated dishwashing detergents like Bubble Bandit not only keep lime buildup down, they remove it - I've seen a badly-limed KitchenAid dishwasher with a stainless interior brought back to sparkling condition this way.

But what about washing machines? Can the lime buildup in outer tubs be kept at bay by phosphates? Will they remove it?

What I'm thinking is that at least an occasional hot wash with some STPP might be good for my 806 washer. While I don't have clothing dirty enough to warrant use of STPP, I do have a collection of what I term "car towels" - worn-out towels that are used for dirty jobs. And those could definitely use STPP's help.

Will STPP have a salutary effect on Ol' Almond? [this post was last edited: 12/12/2012-14:58]

 

[jetcone]

Hmm

STPP works well on suspended minerals already in the water, it prevents deposits, I don't know if it can dissolve hard deposits after the fact. It will soften the water but will the soft water dissolve the scale is what you are really asking.

I know oxalic acid can but it must be used sparingly as it will dissolve porcelain enamel!!

 

[danemodsandy]

Hmm.

That almost leaves me wondering if running some Bubble Bandit through might be helpful!

 

[tomturbomatic]

You would be time and money ahead getting some STPP and using it with the detergent in washing laundry in the machine. It is a slower process of de-mineraling with STPP than with acid so you might as well use more of the pure product than is in the bubble stuff. Also, the STPP will be gentler to your laundry than a DW detergent.

 

[retropia]

Ok, here's a question I've been wondering about for awhile since we're on this topic. Will the addition of STPP to HE detergent, that I use in our frontloader, increase sudsing? If so, do I decrease the amount of detergent that I use when I use STPP? I suppose a little extra suds isn't a problem in a toploader.

 

[tomturbomatic]

You can use less detergent if you use STPP and the nice thing is it helps the rinsing. I mix either TIDE HE or Persil half and half for most laundry, 2 TBS each in the MIELEs, the Creda & the SQ. The formula does not cause sudsing during the wash portion of the cycle. I use less detergent in the towels because they are not heavily soiled & don't need it. Using STPP with the undershirts along with an oxygen bleach and an extra bit of detergent in 190F water prevents underarm staining from anti-perspirant buildup. It keeps the machines mineral and film free.

 

[danemodsandy]

Tom:

I was in NO WAY thinking about running clothes in Bubble Bandit, LOL!

I was just thinking about a few empty runs with hot water and BB.

The stuff is miraculous on DW buildup. I have seen a KA DW with a stainless interior that had lime deposits so bad it looked like the White Cliffs of Dover in there. Bubble Bandit restored it to showroom appearance in under two weeks of use.

 

[tomturbomatic]

I don't know how many uses that was in the dishwasher, but I was just thinking that it would take a tremendous amount of BB to do that in a washing machine with the greater amount of water and with far less forceful water action which is why it would be cheaper to use STPP since you could use that with the laundry detergent while washing laundry instead of filling the washer with hot water just to use the BB stuff as a washer treatment/cleaner.

You will find STPP improves your laundering so greatly that you will not want to wash without it. If you are talking about a top loader, probably a half cup would be needed. You want to make the water feel slippery BEFORE detergent is added to determine the proper amount to use. If you add sufficient STPP, you will use less detergent.

 

[retropia]

I'm going to try using the STPP with less HE detergent in our frontloader, and see how it works. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[launderess]

Great Thing About Phosphate Built Detergents

Is historically they used much less washing soda than found in today's powder laundry detergents, and NO Zeolites.

Just cracked open a vintage box of *All* (with Bleach, Borax and Brighteners) and just as with an older Stpp containing Gain powder the wash water drains "clear" rather than the cloudy muck you often get with today's offerings.

Have a vintage box of Tide "ultra" which does not contain phosphates but does have lots of washing soda and Zeolites and you can see a grainy film covers the stainless steel sink my washers drain into. When used at local laundromat in SQ front loaders as the washers spun again you can see cloudy and grainy water draining down the glass.

After laundry day is done and the aforementioned Tide detergent was used if not rinsed and wiped away the sink would soon have a dried on cloudy coating. Similar to when certain powdered cleansers are used and not totally rinsed away.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yes, soda in hard waters and when is too much (many modern detergents are double loaded with soda to replace the STPP and water softening function) will create a deposit with minerals hard to remove with just plain water.
I recall a thread I posted about A&H powder and the fact that many said it use to leave laundry hard with a chalky white residue, I studied a little and I realized that soda may leave these deposits in fabrics and surfaces, differently than STPP that works with a different way...
STPP can actually help you to eliminate the deposit if it just "sits" on and is "fresh", not when it got hard and "stuck" over the time, I mean if you can remove this coating just passing your finger it didn't get stuck...removable also by passing a dry cloth....
A wash with stpp could remove it when the residue is "fresh" minerals will be in brought back in solution and STPP will make sure they willl not re-deposit again.
In lack of Sttp detergent what I know is useful for dishwashers is to run an empty cycle with about a cup of vinegar to add during the wash, vinegar as you know is a good descaler and is good also for steam irons....it will break the bond and will dissolve minerals.
Generally, descaler for surfaces, so bathroom shower heads etc...contains soap and foaming agents that in a dishwasher would not be good, but vinegar is a cheap and convenient and useful method safe for dishwasher, if you don't mind of vinegar odor.
That is a good way to get rid of white deposits and mineral build up.....otherwise there're in the market products on purpose.
Anyway yes phosphates are good for washers, just think that the first formula of Calgon was made of phosphates then changed to zeolite and polycarboxylate becaise of pollutants beliefs ....

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Viakal,....name in US???

P.S
I used this descaler when I removed basket on my filter flo to clean the outer tub, I think I will run a wash with a bottle of Viakal ( a now P&G product sold in Italy, once of the Nelsen company) which is a descaler....that would be good to run a wash and let the solution in there overnight.

Here is an AD of the 80s....

 

[launderess]

STPP & Sudsing

Depending upon the type of surfactants used in the detergent and or if any anti-foaming agents are included, the answer to your query would be "yes", but with exceptions.

In "low" or "no" froth creating detergents (vintage Dash, All, etc...) and most modern "HE" offerings the addition of some phoshates in of itself shouldn't increase foaming that much. However remember the standard is to lower detergent dosage when adding packaged water softeners to wash water.

If the laundry contains a substantial or even medium amount of detergent/soap residue phosphates will bring such back into solution. If too much detergent again is added to the wash you could have over sudsing.

Too soft water (the addition of STPP) when laundering items known to create froth (terry cloth items for instance) can also increase sudsing.