Suberba by Hobart problem

[moonstation2000]

My family bought a 1960 house last year, complete with 1960 appliances. They are all thermador complete with original brochures, and a Superba by Hobart KDS-17 dishwasher.

They are all stainless steel and in good shape, but of course my wife would love to rip them out and replace with new fancy ones.

Especially the dishwasher. She claims it doesn't do a good job. I cleaned out the screen under the rotating arm and it got better but she's still not thrilled.

Last night she told me that the dishwasher kept running, it wouldn't complete the cycle. I checked it out today, looks like the bottom of the dishwasher is full of water and won't drain. I assume that this is keeping the cycle from finishing?

I removed the drain valve and the pipe drained all of the water, so there is no blockage.

Are the likely culprits the drain valve or maybe the float?

I'd love to keep this dishwasher (and the other appliances) around as long as I can. I love the vintage looks and while the new stuff might look good I don't trust it to live very long.

 

[DADoES]

 
KDS-17 was produced from June 1971 through July 1974.

 

[barcoboy]

Sounds like it might be the drain valve. Normally when these dishwashers drain, you'll hear a loud snap as the valve opens. If you don't hear the snap, then it's possible that the valve isn't getting power from the timer, or the valve itself is defective.

 

[barcoboy]

Also, the float is a normally close switch that is wired in series with the inlet valve. It will only disconnect power to the inlet valve when the water level gets too high and opens the switch.

 

[toploader55]

If she's not thrilled with it, it' probably caused by improper loading.

Single armed KitchenAids have a very finicky and distinct loading pattern. They are very powerful machines as long as you understand how to load them.

You can place a large pot in the lower rack BUT... you cannot put anything directly above it in the Upper rack. The water has no way of cleaning that item. The lower rack is primarily for Plates and flat Items that will let the water shoot up to the upper rack.
If you look at some of the Vintage Ads for the KitchenAids from say 1957 though 1972 (Or the KD-10 through the KD-17 series machines) you will see that Large Pots, Mixing Bowls etc are always in the upper rack and the only thing you will see in the lower rack are Plates of all sizes and the Flatware Basket.

Once you/ she understands this and you get your draining problem settled, you might find it's the best cleaning Dishwasher that will fly though full cycle in under 1 hour. That's washed and dried.

Notice the Upper Rack. The Large Pot and Bowl. Your upper rack tilts and lowers to accommodate large items. The lower rack is all plates and platters. This allows the water to clean the upper rack.

Hope this helps.

 

[stevet]

Thank you, Eddie and Barcoboy

As Eddie has just pointed out, Correct loading is the key to making sure everything gets clean in these machines.
As Barcoboy pointed out, you should hear a distinct sound when the drain valve opens to drain the machine. They did fail and at this point it would be the first thing to check since you already determined that the drain line is not clogged.
Hopefully, you didn't just install a new disposer and forget to knock out the plug for the dishwasher drain. Most common error when installing a disposer!.

Put the machine thru a Cancel/Drain cycle and you should hear the drain valve snapping into action as the timer advances.

One last thing.. Don't look for a float switch. There isn't one to be seen in the 17 and earlier series tanks. They used a pressure switch located under the tank.

Let's get the drain problem fixed first and go from there.

 

[DADoES]

 
Some sorts of bowls, pots/pans, and casseroles can be placed in the lower rack if they're reasonably shallow and stood up around the perimeter in a vertical orientation. Depending how space allots for a given load, a few such items can also be placed facing forward in the larger spaces between the plate tines.  My family had a KDI-17a for many years, which is the mid-line model with a lesser set of cycles but otherwise the same spray arm system.  We loaded the hell out of it and rarely had cleaning failures once we understand how to handle the loading patterns.

 

[moonstation2000]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!

I really think most of her dislike is because it's old and she would like a new shiny model. She has said a few times that it hasn't washed well but it's always seemed fine to me. We already use the bottom for plates etc, and the top for glasses and bowls. We wash the pots and pans by hand.

I pulled out the drain valve and took it apart, but mechanically it looks fine. Can I check it electrically? If it is bad can I get another new one?

 

[stevet]

Easy to test! Hard to find!

If the valve is out of the machine, just apply 120 volts to it and it should energize and pull the plunger up. Remove power and the plunger drops back down.
Assuming you have the turquoise colored valve, these were replaced with the white and Red valves that saw service on the 18 thru 20 series and were also the replacements for the blue valves in Hobart's commercial lines.
They are still available from Hobart brand new and are a bit pricey. You will have to drill some new holes to mount it and probably install a new drain hose from the pump to the valve but it should last a good long time and is also easy to operate by hand for troubleshooting purposes.

If your original works on the bench, then you will need to check that voltage is reaching the valve when the timer is calling for it to open and that is tested with either an electrical test meter set on AC volts or with a 120 volt test light.
Obviously, if that meter or light never shows any voltage being applied to the valve, you will have to go further and check for a broken wire(s) a loose connection etc. Do check all the connections under the machine to make sure they are tight and no wires are out of their spade connectors. Hobart was notorious back then for crappy connectors and they would always join multiple neutral wires together on one common connector which led to failures.
I am not being disloyal to the hand that still feeds me, but I lived thru it and have earned the right to tell it like it is! LOL

 

[moonstation2000]

Well I pulled the cover back off and ran the drain cycle. The connections all looked fine, didn't see anything loose. I checked for 120 volts at the connections to the valve and it checked out fine. But no water drained, so I guess I have a bad valve.

I looked for a replacement on the Hobart site, but didn't find anything using the part number on the valve. I did find a replacement on RepairClinic. Any known difference in quality? Should I give Hobart a call?

 

[askolover]

ebay too

much cheaper than repair clinic...supposed to be genuine Whirlpool authorized replacement part.   SteveT will be able to best advise you.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[stevet]

That's the one!

Yes, that is the newer style valve and at a great price! Go for it. And keep that classic running!

 

[moonstation2000]

Fantastic! Just ordered it, you guys are the best! I hope to keep this puppy running for a long time, all new stuff these days seems to be built so flimsy and disposable.

Found a date on the valve of 1972, so I guess it's 43 years old already, I guess I'll forgive it for breaking..

 

[toploader55]

You are so kind and generous with your description of New Appliances.

 

For the most part, New Appliances suck. And are Crap !!!

 

Good Luck and I hope the machine runs forever !!!

 

[moonstation2000]

I got the new valve today after too many days of having to wash dishes by hand! It was torture!

I installed it. The valve inlets and outlet are different than the original but no big deal.

I went to run the dishwasher and it stayed forever on the prewash cycle. So I manually hit the drain button and that works fine, the machine will drain properly and dry.

But it gets stuck on the prewash and will stay there. Been running for 2 hours now on prewash, I'm about to go shut it off.

Any ideas?


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[barcoboy]

Good that the drain valve is working again, but not good that it is stuck on prewash. It sounds like one of your timer motors is not running. These timers have two motors-one which runs through the full cycle and advances the timer once every minute or so, and another to rapidly advance the timer to skip through certain parts of the cycle depending on which cycle is selected. If the rapid advance motor is working, pressing Cancel/Drain will not only drain the dishwasher, but also advance the timer to the end of the cycle (you'll hear it clicking, as well as see the cycle progress lights advancing). If this is happening, the rapid advance timer advances to the last timer increment before off, and then the regular run motor will advance the timer to off (at least it is this way on my KDS-58... maybe the 17 is different). This makes sure that it is reset at the 0 second mark ready for the start of the next cycle/increment (you should be able to hear the timer run motor running at this point before it advances the timer to the off position). Once in the off position, opening the door latch runs the rapid advance motor again to reset for the start of the next cycle. If the run motor doesn't run, then the timer should also get stuck at the last step of the dry cycle and never shut off (the blower/heating element won't be on in this increment, but the Dry indicator light will be), and because it doesn't get to the off position, the rapid advance reset would not occur, making it impossible to start a new cycle. Maybe something is preventing the run motor from advancing off of the first increment. You can try turning the timer dial manually a bit with a screwdriver... it should be marked on the timer which way to turn (I believe it is clockwise). Again, I don't have any experience with the 17 models, only my portable 18... others will be able to confirm/correct what I am saying.

 

[combo52]

KDS-17 DW Problems

It sounds like your regular speed timer motor may have failed, be careful about trying to run the machine because if it stops with the drain valve energized it will burn out the new DV in a few minutes, KA used a cheap intermittent duty DV coil on their DWs and if you keep it energized for more than a few minutes it will burn out. This might be what ruined the orignal DV.

 

[moonstation2000]

Tonight I had some time to mess around with the machine.

With it stuck on prewash the valve is never opening, it was just prewashing for ever and ever. Thankfully not much danger of burning it out then.

The control wheel? (not sure of the right name for this part but is is labelled Singer D-110057) responds to any of the settings that you can request with the buttons eg. sani cycle, full cycle, rinse hold etc. It will rotate the wheel to the correct starting spot. However once there the machine starts up and the wheel never revolves any further, so for the "full cycle" that we always use it gets stuck on the prewash and never advances any further.

I ran it through a full wash turning the control wheel with the knob and everything seemed to be fine. It's just not turning by itself.

 

[moonstation2000]

Does this mean my run motor is shot and the rapid advance motor is doing its job?