Suitable Replacement for KDS-17

[anblack]

Hi, my wife and I were using the wonderful Kitchenaid by Hobart KDS-17 dishwasher (that came with the house we bought 1 year ago) until 1) we noticed a small leak and 2) the dishwasher began to "get stuck" on the drying cycle. I was able to open the panel and manually rotate the timer mechanism past the stuck cycle, but the leak became worse.

We have an AHS warranty, and 2 attempts to fix the dishwasher were unsuccessful. I am pretty sure they didn't really try, but we are aware that parts would be difficult to find, even if they planned on trying to fix our appliance.

When they began talking about replacing the dishwasher, we went through a few questions about number and types of cycles, number of wash arms, color of the inside of the dishwasher, presence of rust, presence of adjustable racks, etc., and the "suitable replacement based on features" was a $400 Whirlpool model. I argued (unsuccessfully) that our dishwasher had many features not found on the Whirlpool model, including a heating element/plate warm function that does not require washing dishes first to use, a metal (not plastic) tub, and virtually all metal construction (i.e., "built to last").

Questions: 1) What would be a suitable/comparable "modern" dishwasher to replace the KDS-17. 2) Are there any other KDS-17 unique features that I should mention to get the AHS folks to pony up for a higher quality replacement? 3) Could ours be fixed by someone mechanically inclined (me) but without specific knowledge of dishwashers? Is there a specific troubleshooting sequence to go through the so that each part can be evaluated and replaced as necessary.

After using the dishwasher temporarily and reading all of the posts on this website, I really want to keep our KDS-17, but if we have to replace it, I would like a similar QUALITY model.

Thanks in advance for any help/responses!!!

 

[passatdoc]

If you were to list all the features/cycles here, some of us could peruse the KitchenAid website and try to come up with a current model that approximates your features. In general, a Whirlpool is NOT equivalent to a KA at any feature level or tier, so the warranty company should be considering a KA model for you with as many of the same features as you now have.

 

[henry200]

Prepare yourself for a potential deluge of opinions.  They sometimes abound here!  I for one would do everything I could to keep that Kitchenaid running.  Determining the location of the leak shouldn't be too difficult.  The timer issue is a bit more of a problem, but with patience and persistence even that might be resolved.

 

Now I'll really stick my neck out and say that in terms of a replacement option, the only other dishwasher I have been 100% happy with is a Miele.  I should add that the two common current brands with which I have no experience are GE and Bosch.

 

You've definitely come to the right place to get some honest, straightforward answers.  Welcome!

 

[swestoyz]

Hi there -

You mentioned that cycles are getting stuck. Does it complete other cycles or does it get stuck at the same place each time you do a wash? Either way - there could be an issue with the timer (or timer motors) or a component the timer controls might be acting up and have caused an issue with the timer.

Also - water leaks can vary greatly without more specifics - door gasket, water valve, drain valve, hoses, constant rinse, or the typical leak on these - the pump seal.

It wouldn't hurt to keep it on hand and rebuild it if you did buy a new one. These still pop up on CL often, so getting a parts donor shouldn't be too difficult if you are patient. Then when the new tall tub Whirlpool dies in a few years, you can put back a refurbished, real KitchenAid.

Ben (who loves using his KDS-17 every day)

 

[anblack]

thanks for the responses!

the water seems to be leaking from main black hose toward the front of the dishwasher. it is actually more of a spray/mist, which makes me think it must be under pressure and not coming from a drain.

the timer gets stuck on the dry cycle and would just keep drying for hours if you let it. only stops when you unplug the dishwasher or turn the dial on the outside of the timer box. but i'm not sure if manually turning the timer is good for the gears...

 

[appnut]

Will the timer advance past the "stuck" place if you hit cancel/drain?

 

[rp2813]

AHS is famous for replacing with inferior products.  Stand your ground.  You can always get a cash settlement and buy what you want. 

 

The leak sounds easy to fix.  Probably just a standard hose that needs to be replaced.  The timer may not be as easy to find, but they do show up on ebay every so often.  You could easily handle the job of replacing both items.

 

If you like your KDS-17, you'll absolutely love a KDS-18, which is considered by many to be the best dishwasher KA ever made; the first to include not only an upper wash arm, which makes loading a breeze, but also an additional downward spray module on the top of the tub.  It may take some time, but 18 series Superbas do appear on Craigslist once in a while, and it's not a big deal to remove and install a dishwasher, even if you've never done it before.  I'd expect connections to match up to your 17 series exactly, or close to it.

 

Your situation sounds just like my sister's.  She has AHS and had repair techs dispatched numerous times for her KDS-18 and they never fixed it.  All it needed was a good douching and proper detergent.  She ended up replacing a perfectly good machine because the techs AHS sent out were lame and felt the KA wasn't worth fixing.

 

 

 

 

[volvoguy87]

Timer.

Another option is having your timer rebuilt. There is a company called Midwest Timer that has rebuilt several members' timers. They, or their competition, may be worth a call. Find the source of the leak, hopefully it's just a worn hose. Parts can be a challenge to find, but they are out there and once the parts required are identified, we often know sources.

Additionally, Kitchenaid is not the same level of quality it once was. It's a far cheaper machine now than it was when yours was new. Also, electronic control boards are extremely expensive and are generally less reliable than a mechanical timer. If you replace the machine, you'll likely be replacing the replacement in a few ears. I work in an appliance parets store and we sell a LOT of electronic control boards for a LOT of money. Personally, I'd stay away from them.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[anblack]

"Will the timer advance past the "stuck" place if you hit cancel/drain?"

no, the timer will not advance with the cancel/drain button. heat just keeps on blowing. the only way i can reset it is to turn the control manually with the plastic post that sticks out of the timer box. just a little turn seems to to it, but it will get stuck again in the same place.

 

[appnut]

Thank you about explaining what happens with cance/drain. That may help give others' here clues.

 

[stevet]

Drips and Drags...

That fine spray mist you see under the unit when it is running is more indicative of a shaft seal leak on the pump as it will drip down the shaft and be flung out at 3450 rpm by the flinger/cooling fan for the motor. If it stops spraying when you unlatch the door, chances are it is the seal and not a hose. The only other way this might happen is if there is a leak that is running down the tank and finding its way to the sump and then dripping down and getting blown away by the air movement of the fan.
As far as the timer goes, it is either worn out at the spot it stalls, has worn out contacts at that spot or the program switch is going. But from what you describe, it sounds like it is the timer.

I sold a timer to a gentleman out in California who never used it and would be willing to sell it to someone who needs it so if you want to go that route, let me know and I will put you two in touch. He will probably let it go for less than 100 bucks. It came out of a perfectly running machine and like I said, he never installed it in his.
Hope this helps
Steve

 

[neptunebob]

If it would work I have the seal kit for a KD16, the model previous to the 17.  Will sell it for cost if you need/can use it.

 

[stevet]

One size fits all 3!

Bob, the seal kits for the 15-16-17 models are all the same so it will work just fine if needed. Hopefully the leak has been caught early enough so that the shaft and top of the flinger are still in good shape.

 

[combo52]

SUITABLE REPLACEMENT FOR KDS-17

The HOW should pay for a new KA superba. The closest replacement is a standard tub KM Ultra wash DW Model 13442 in white. This is the only DW made in the world that has a 1/3 HP motor and will clean a really dirty load of dishes in under an hour. This machine will cost you between $300 and $500 depending on whether you install it or have it installed.

 

The real problem here is the HOW you have gotten nothing but wasted time and you may be out any coe-pay that you had to pay for this wonderful service you received. Had you not had this coverage you cold have called a good reputable local repair company and had this fixed in one or two calls.

 

HOWs are never a good deal for appliance problems for many reasons. 

1. They only attract the worst contractors that don't have a good reputation and need work so they sign up to work for these warranty companies. [ these are often people that you do-not even want in your house ]

2. Try looking up appliance repair companies in your area in Annegies List, local consumer protection office or contact local real-estate companies that do a lot of property management and get the names of firms that do a good job in your area. These firms will seldom if ever be the same ones that the HOW companies use.

3. If I were buying an existing home that had a HOW I would insist that they take the coverage away and reduce the house cost  by the same amount. You would likely do better and you will also find the companies in your area that will be your long time allies in keeping your home in good shape.

 

[anblack]

thanks again for the responses. at this point, it looks like they are willing to reassess the replacement model, but they need to know the features of the KDS-17 DW that warrant replacement with a more expensive model than their current suggestion/offer.

I think we will just "cash out" and use the money to buy replacement parts and hire our own repair person.

Does the KDS-17 not have unique features that are only found on higher end DWs?

 

[stevet]

SITE THE FEATURES!

FULL/NORMAL CYCLE
HEAVY/SOAK-SCRUB CYCLE WITH HI TEMP WASHING
RINSE AND HOLD
SANI CYCLE(180 DEGREE)
QUICK/SHORT WASH AND DRY
FULLY AJDUSTABLE RACKS ON TOP(16 POSITION)
ENERGY SAVER DRY OPTION(NON HEAT DRY)
1/2 HP PUMP

SOMEONE HERE CAN SEND YOU THE SALES BROCHURE FOR YOUR MACHINE WHICH WILL PUT IT ALL IN PRINT FOR YOU TO SHOW THEM!

YOU WILL FIND ALL THE SAME FEATURES ON ANY MID TO UPPER LEVEL MODEL FROM KITCHENAID BUT NOBODY HAS THE PLATE WARMING OPTION THAT I KNOW OF AND YOU CANNOT GET A NEW MACHINE TO START AT THE DRYING PORTION SINCE EVERYTHING FOR THE MOST PART IS ELECTRONICALLY CONTROLLED.
DON'T CAVE ON THE ADJUSTABLE RACKS EITHER. THE STANDARD WHIRLPOOL DESIGN SUCKS SINCE IT CAN NEITHER MOVE UP OR DOWN NOR DOES IT HAVE THE DROP DOWN DIVIDERS.THERE'S A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE IN THE LOADING CAPABLILITIES BETWEEN THE FIXED DIVIDERS AND THE ADJUSTABLE ONES. CUPS AND GLASSES THAT CAN'T FIT ALONG THE SIDES OF THE RACK IN THE NON ADJUSTABLE RACK FIT EASILY IN THE BETTER RACKS AS THE TINES ARE LOOSELY FITTED AND ALLOWS THE BIGGER ITEMS TO FIT RIGHT IN. aDDS CAPACITY THAT YOU DONT REALIZE UNLESS YOU TRY IT FOR YOURSELF. pEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE THE ADJUSTABLE DIVIDERS ARE AMAZED AT HOW MUCH MORE WE CAN FIT IN THE UPPER RACK OF OUR KA TALL TUB.

ANOTHER FEATURE OF THE ADJUSTABLE RACKS IS THAT THEY CAN BE REMOVED IF YOU WISH TO WASH REALLY TALL ITEMS IN THE LOWER RACK AND WHEN REMOVED, THE WATER OUTLET FOR THE TOP RACK IS AUTOMATICALLY CLOSED OFF SO ALL THE PRESSURE COMES OUT OF THE BOTTOM WASH ARM. THE NON ADJUSTABLE RACKS CAN COME OUT BUT THE WATER WILL NOT STOP AND THEN YOU WILL LOSE MOST OF THE PRESSURE OUT OF THE BOTTOM ARM, MAKING THE WASHING ABILITY JUST ABOUT ZILCH!

FORGET ABOUT THE DROP DOWN CUP RACKS.. THEY ARE NOTHING BUT A GIMMICK! HOW CAN SOMETHING COME CLEAN WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER CUP OR GLASS PLACED DIRECTLY UNDER IT?
THEY ARE USEFUL ONLY TO HOLD LIGHT PLASTICS FROM FLIPPING OVER AND TO PROVIDE A PLACE TO REST TALLER STEMWARE IN THE SECOND ROW AGAINST. ALSO, DON'T SETTLE FOR THE WHIRLPOOL MACHINES WITH THE SILVERWARE BASKET ON THE DOOR. IT CUTS YOUR LOWER RACK SPACE DOWN BY 3 OR 4 INCHES BY HAVING TO UTILIZE A SMALLER LOWER RACK. THE KENMORE AND KA RACKS EXTEND INTO THE RECESS IN THE DOOR SO YOU GET A LARGER RACK. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO USE THE BIG SILVERWARE BASKET THEY PROVIDE, YOU CAN FIT THE ONE FROM YOUR 17 INTO THE RACK AND GAIN EVEN MORE SPACE FOR DISHES.

TAKE YOUR PLATES AND GLASSES TO YOUR LOCAL APPLIANCE STORE AND SEE HOW THEY FIT IN THOSE MACHINES OR ANY MACHINE YOU MAY CONSIDER BUYING. THAT WAY YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED IF THEY DON'T FIT IN THE NEW MACHINE.

OF COURSE IT WILL GO WITHOUT SAYING THAT YOU WILL HAVE MUCH MORE FREEDOM TO LOAD AS YOU LIKE AND WILL ALMOST ALWAYS GET THE TOP RACK ITEMS CLEAN IF NOT CLEANER THAN THE 17 COULD EVER DO WITH THE ADDITION OF THE WASH ARM UNDER THE TOP RACK.

I WILL ADMIT THAT WE LEARNED FAST HOW TO LOAD OUR KDS15 BACK IN 1967 BUT THE VERSATILITY CAME ABOUT WHEN THE 18'S CAME OUT AND THEN THE WASHING GOT EVEN BETTER WITH THE 21 SERIES.

STICK TO YOU GUNS AND EVEN FORCE THEM INTO GETTING A TOP OF THE LINE MACHINE FOR YOU WHICH IS WHAT THE SUPERBA WAS IN ITS DAY. CHANCES ARE YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID THEM MORE THAN WHAT A NEW TOL MACHINE WILL COST THEM TO GET FOR YOU.
iF YOU DONT LIOKE THE MACHIEN, YOU CAN ALWAYS SELL IT AND GET SOMETHING THAT SUITS YOUR NEEDS BETTER.

 

[nmassman44]

Hmmmm my Miele dishwasher has a plate warm cycle and I do use the stacking shelves but one has to be smart about placement of items above. That said if your machine is fixable then go that route. This is a great resource for help!