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user 12105

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Begging everyones pardon, but from what i have have read on these forums for the last several years, ...lost my train of thought for a moment, only you men/women who have rebuilt and reconditioned the machines you own now...WTF is so special about Frigidaire, Philco flapulator, and especially ABC/Kelvianator?

Do not get me wrong..what you guys do for the rest of us can never be paid back...i speak especially for myself.

We all love our favorite brands...can a 12lb. Frigidaire tub with the Jet-cone agi move clothes and clean them as well as say the evil WP surgilator from the same era?

I kind of see it, if that up and down agitator was so damn superior, why did GM hang on to it for 30 some odd years and then drop it?

I just feel there are certain members who need to lay off their hatred for WP and whatever they do...let's face it they are all mega corporations whather we like it or not.

Finished rant.
 
agiflow

perhaps it is just their unconventional mechanics/engineering
that generates the enthusiasm. I myself did not know that the Philco magic blades existed before I started participating
in AW.O . I had only ever owned and used Kenmore, Whirlpool,
a late 60's early 70's G E and only in the 90's a single direction White-Westinghouse and then an early 70's Maytag,
and then in just the last year and a half two 1-18's. Oh I forgot years ago, a very early Frigidaire. Myself I have found the 1-18's somewhat nerve wracking and not extraordinary
cleaners, but I certainly love their uncommonness. I'd be
delighted to have any vintage laundry set, especially if
it was one I never had. I think the windowed ABC/Kelvinators
are fabulously exciting and original. And what's not to love about the stunning blue tub of the Automagics?
 
My posting came off as attacking..it really was not intentioned so. I guess in my mind i see so many of you being involved with what it takes to make this site so interesting and downright FUN !!

I can remember my aunt's late 60's rollermatic with that beautiful upswept top that i NEVER got to see in action. I have always had a fondness for ANY automatic washer i could either see in a friends basement , laundry room, whatever :-)

My criteria would be...if a unimatic or any of the Frigi GM washers could roll a capacity load of heavy fabric/denim as well as any oscilling automatic of similar capacity of the times..this would really be a selling point..btw, i really do not care if it spins at 1140 or not...good selling point though :-)
 
Don't Get No Respect

In the rural area where I grew up, most people used well water. It was a dusty farming community so everybody's laundry was full of dirt.
Timed fill washers weren't popular because most of the water pressure on home systems wouldn't fill them properly. Solid tub models weren't popular because there was always a ring on dirt at the bottom of the tub, spun into the outer layer of clothes.
In the small town 11 miles from our house, was Killingstads which sold Maytag and Frigidaire, Amundson's which sold GE and a Sears catalogue store.
There wasn't much else around. In the 60's a discount store, Valu-Mart, opened in Yakima, 35 miles away. They carried Kelvinator, Easy and Philco. Many were sold, because of the cheap price, but there weren't trained factory repairmen around to do the warrantee and follow up maintenance. I never once saw a Norge during my childhood.
When GE switched to the perforated tub in 61, they gained a huge market share in the lower valley. With the advent of the larger capacity Frigidaire with the swirlaway drain, Frigidaire established themselves as being able to wash a huge load if you were okay with the noise. Maytag was always for the elite and it was like saying you owned a Mercedes if you had a Maytag. Whirlpool had a very limited presence since no one sold them, close to where I lived. Kenmore has always been the common denominator of all classes. Dependable, good at cleaning, above average at Permanent Press, the benchmark of comfortable laundry. You find Kenmore in the poorest homes being paid for on credit and equally represented in the wealthiest homes of America.
When I moved to the midwest in the 70's, I was surprised to see a large showing of Norge in many homes. In Michigan, Frigidaire and Maytag were very prominent and in Pennsylvania, I saw a lot of GE.
Now that Lowes, Home Depot and Best Buy can offer excellent prices, many brands are giving Kenmore a run for the money, one of them being Whirlpool.
Collecting and playing with older, "oddball" designs is like being a game hunter. It is exciting to bag the "big" one. It's fascinating to watch them wash and listen to the nuance of their function.
The remaining brands have been an example of survival of the fitest. The ones that sold well and continued to create profits proliferated through the 60's and 70's.
There never was a right or wrong in any design. It is all about pride of ownership and feeling good about the machine you own. Laundry and it's accoutrements are very personal. Sometimes, even intimate.
Kelly
 
Don't Get No Respect

In the rural area where I grew up, most people used well water. It was a dusty farming community so everybody's laundry was full of dirt.
Timed fill washers weren't popular because most of the water pressure on home systems wouldn't fill them properly. Solid tub models weren't popular because there was always a ring on dirt at the bottom of the tub, spun into the outer layer of clothes.
In the small town 11 miles from our house, was Killingstads which sold Maytag and Frigidaire, Amundson's which sold GE and a Sears catalogue store.
There wasn't much else around. In the 60's a discount store, Valu-Mart, opened in Yakima, 35 miles away. They carried Kelvinator, Easy and Philco. Many were sold, because of the cheap price, but there weren't trained factory repairmen around to do the warrantee and follow up maintenance. I never once saw a Norge during my childhood.
When GE switched to the perforated tub in 61, they gained a huge market share in the lower valley. With the advent of the larger capacity Frigidaire with the swirlaway drain, Frigidaire established themselves as being able to wash a huge load if you were okay with the noise. Maytag was always for the elite and it was like saying you owned a Mercedes if you had a Maytag. Whirlpool had a very limited presence since no one sold them, close to where I lived. Kenmore has always been the common denominator of all classes. Dependable, good at cleaning, above average at Permanent Press, the benchmark of comfortable laundry. You find Kenmore in the poorest homes being paid for on credit and equally represented in the wealthiest homes of America.
When I moved to the midwest in the 70's, I was surprised to see a large showing of Norge in many homes. In Michigan, Frigidaire and Maytag were very prominent and in Pennsylvania, I saw a lot of GE.
Now that Lowes, Home Depot and Best Buy can offer excellent prices, many brands are giving Kenmore a run for the money, one of them being Whirlpool.
Collecting and playing with older, "oddball" designs is like being a game hunter. It is exciting to bag the "big" one. It's fascinating to watch them wash and listen to the nuance of their function.
The remaining brands have been an example of survival of the fitest. The ones that sold well and continued to create profits proliferated through the 60's and 70's.
There never was a right or wrong in any design. It is all about pride of ownership and feeling good about the machine you own. Laundry and it's accoutrements are very personal. Sometimes, even intimate.
Kelly
 
I think i need to seal my big hole shut, occasionally.

Pat:

First: get that T***on out of your @$$.
Next: Lighten up.
Third: Try something new.
Fourth: smack me silly like I so desperately deserve.

WP is plain vanilla~ try another flavor (brand of washer). Life is Baskin-Robins. LIVE A LITTLE.

I personally know you eat chicken, beef and now fish.
Imagine how boring life would be eating the same thing every day. Even caviar 3 x a day 7 a week gets BORING.

Whirlpool is a great staple of American life. (think meat and two potatoes). Have a pannini. Have a wrap-sandwich. Have a taco-salad even. Just keep eating boi. It's ALL good.

Have faith, the universe and G-d watch over you all the time. Things will get better.

If not we can both have the *spiked* Kool-Aid together (just kidding).

WHO LOVES YA BABY?
 
Please accept my deepest apaologies to brett and anyone i might have offended...was in kind of a snit about some postings i was reading...after all life does go on and this stuff really doesn't affect me as such, but i guess this time it did.

As i said, i am really sorry for coming off like a j/o, this is not like me to behave this way and i hope we can just move on from here.

Please pass me some humble pie.
 
agiflow

i will make a confession, i have asked myself many of the same questions you posed in the first posting. being a Maytag devotee myself, i didnt understand the fuss over Frigidaire. now its obvious that the *fun* factor plays a big role with stuff like this. the jumping water, the dramatic spinout and the constantly bobbing agitator. the same reasons some folks are soo enthusiatic about Rainbow and Dyson vacuums. and the super-spin of the Unimatic is a real asset. more "fun" than the old-time Maytag agitation with its plain Jane straight-vane agi. nevermind that our Webmaster is the Oprah Winfrey of Automatics. hes spread the the *sheer look* gospel into the new century! and the ABC style machines are just hypnotising. and since Whirlpool is the big dog, it makes a handy target. nothing personal.
 
Sameness - ICK.

I've also tried to analyze why I find these machines so interesting. This may be redundant. However, life today has so many areas of sameness. How boring. Personally, I love variety - and those older designs steal my attention, fascinate me and sometimes make me laugh. Older machines each had a distinct personality all their own and each manufacturer seemed to have pride in their individual designs. That pride seems to have been lost now that appliances today are commodity items. When I must buy some new device nowadays I still strive to find something a little different from the pack.
I'm sure you've noticed that you can identify the make and model of an old washer, TV or automobile from 100 feet away - but can you do that with new product? Not too often anymore in my opinion. Too bad...
 
I think most of the rant against WP was because of the change from the belt drive tranny to the direct drive and the drastic change in agitation. I like the new machines much better than the BD design, but that's me. Before the DD, the only WP washers I liked were the combos. I really like my KA washer that I have had since the early 90s, I think. When I use it, I almost always lift the lid once the drain starts so that it will spin while draining. I like top loaders that do that and others don't. Chacun a` son gou^t, n'est-ce pas?
 
Pat, I understand. Frigidaires are fun, but the truth is that ALL vintage machines are fun as well! I haven't seen as much with belt-drive Whirlpool or Kenmore, but I've seen many posts bashing Maytag and calling them "boring", when they are really just the opposite. And also with calling the later direct-drive Whirlpool/Kenmores "shredders", which I'm beginning to think is a user-related problem that everyone refuses to believe. You have a Whirlpool, and I had a Kenmore for 8 years and neither of us had experienced any stressed or torn clothes, etc. So really all of the bashing is untrue in the first place.

Just my two cents.
 
Shredmore

I have been more concerned about washers that don't move clothes and water than the ones that are too vigorous. I always ran the Atlantis on heavy, unless it was a delicate load. I have a Klackmore now, and while it's noise drives me bonkers, it washes fine. Anytime, any machine is overloaded and the clothes can't escape the agitator blades there is going to be excessive wear.
Kelly
 
These machines of course work best not filled to capacity. I also try and use the slower speed whenever i can to still achieve decent rollover.

I have generally found WP DD washers to offer very good flexibility in the higher priced lines. Generally good reliability also.

I feel while no manufacture does all things equally well of what they produce...WP seems to be the Matsushita of the appliance world.

And yes,...i am very aware there is a world out there beyond WP :-)
 
Add one capful of common sense...

Anytime anyone ever asks me what kind of washer to buy, I always recommend Whirlpool/Kenmore DD washers. They have proven themselves over the last 20 years to be extremely reliable, very servicable and all-around easy to like machines. Many of the claims of harsh agitation and excessive wear on fabrics are mostly unfounded and surely would have been addressed before millions of these washers were sold to consumers. Almost every service manual for any brand of washer I've ever read addressing this issue speaks directly to user methods and educating the owner on PROPER use of the machine - be it overloading, additive usage, etc. Once you have checked the obvious in the machine - nicked, cracked or broken agitator, tub defects, etc. what else is there but the user? Manufacturers testing labs and independent textile companies have always said that normal wearing of fabrics causes the greatest majority of wear to fabrics, washing them in water with even vigorous agitation and detergent does very little and in fact, extends the fabric life by removing harmful pollutants that attack the fibers. The quicker stains are removed and fabrics are cleaned after wearing and/or use makes a huge difference in the life of the fibers as well, clothes allowed to sit dirty for weeks on end will have a shorter useful life than those washed within a few days of wearing. Body oils, food soils, dirt, grease, etc. all attack and break down natural fibers within a relatively short time. A lot of the problems blamed on the washer's agitation have more to do with HOW the clothes are worn and used than the machine itself. If you take a pair of size 28 jeans and stretch them over a size 42 butt, you might have a split seam or two now and then. Don't blame the washer, blame the Super-Size Fries! I don't blame the threadbare knees on my 12-year-old's jeans on the washer...
 
....my dear agi....

Frigidaire never dropped the jet action cleaning system. It was dropped by White when they aquired Frigidaire in favor of the Westinghouse design. Other than the Kelvinator, I know of NO OTHER washer that cleaned as well. They did have the dirt left in the tub syndrome, as a result of their solid tubs, but Frigidaire remedied that with their 1-16 and 1-18 perf tub models. When you really load up a WP/Ken with jeans etc... you will get no rollover at all, thus the auger built onto the agitator! I remember using a Whirlpool that when loaded with towels got very little rollover and ALWAYS sudslocked. The Maytags were a little better as I don't remember sudslocking problems with those. In conclusion, no matter how full you packed the Frigidaires and Kelvinators, YOU ALWAYS GOT ROLLOVER and pretty good cleaning! Mark
 
Funny how different people have different experiences with WP/KM and Frigidaire or Maytag.

There have been posts in the past about how well a surgilator can roll heavier denim well and that pulsators would choke on a capacity load of heavy fabrics.

I like all the machines mentioned, i was more or less curious as to how well pulsators in particular can handle say a load of heavy denim..which is obviously a hard test for any TL washer.

Thanks Mark and everyone who answered.
 
Don't know about the 1-16,however the 1-18 I had sudslocked quite often. The clutch had to be replaced twice. The third time the cluch went out,the machine went to the alley. Other than that problem, I loved the wash action of my 1971 1-18, and the fast spin. However, I did not like the control panel design. In fact, the only Frigidaire control panel designs that I do like are the 1957,1958,1959, and 1960 models. (now don't we all) LOL!! They are all fun to watch, but other than the 57-60 models, I do not want one. They are still very nice to see in someone else's collection.

The WP Sugilator in my 1956 WP turns over 7 pair of jeans very well. The 58 Maytag does not turn even 5 pair of them well at all. The 65 Kenmore does not turn jeans as well as the WP,but is better than the Maytag. The Super-Roto-Swirl also has another problem with large loads of jeans: When the tub is packed,the Roto-Swirl sometimes wraps the leg of the jeans around itself,thus stopping all turnover. So much for that load...
BTW: the 56 WP runs slightly faster than the 65 Kenmore. My 58 Maytag runs slower,but has longer strokes than any Maytag I have ever seen. I am rebuilding a 56 Kenmore right now. Am wondering if it will run the same speed as the 56 WP,or the 65 KM??

I would have to say there are many reasons why one person may dislike a certain brand,or another. I do love the KM/WP 1950's and 1960's models only. But if someone else does not,I really do not care. I cannot give an opinion on any modern appliances. Do not own any,and do not care to know about them. Never read the "blue" section here. I do have to say that any vintage appliance 30+ years old is a surviver,and should at least be respected for that, if nothing else. I will only own vintage GM cars. When I attend a car show, I try to check out all the vintage brands of cars. Not that I would ever own a Ford, or Chysler, but I still have a liking for those brands, and the people who restored and maintain them. Same goes with vintage appliances for me.
 
I am with many here on this issue. The Fridigaires and Kelvinators are a neat design mechanically. Although I enjoy the external appearance of the older machines very much so (they are chromed beauties, just like the cars from that era!) the internals are just as interesting. Being that I'm mildly autistic, I find myself extremely interested in mechanical design, and the operation of the components. In the 50's and 60's, the manufacturers were really putting their minds into creating unique designs.

Unlike nowadays, where people just want the cheapest thing on the floor, when people spent more money on their appliances in the past, manfacturers could take the revenue and turn it into R&D. The result were some really fun and interesting designs. There's nothing wrong with Whirlpool washers, it's just that they lack a lot of unique design. I equate the Whirlpools to the Umbiquous Chevy Impala of the era. Nicely styled, but very basic, common mechanicals underneath. While nowadays, both 60's vintage Impalas are getting to be as rare as hen's teeth, so are WP's from the same era...so I'm not going to stick my nose up at ANY washer from that era!
 
But hasn't there been a renaissance in the last few years with "new" toploader designs after the "boring 1980s?" Calypso, Neptune TL, Harmony, Oasis. F&P with their auto-sensing and EcoActive wash processes is different from the so-called generic Whirlpool/Kenmore. Even the Catalyst threw a bit of a twist on the traditional fill-agitate-drain-spin-fill-agitate-drain-spin wash process, although it wasn't a radical departure. True, some of these are very similar to old designs already done and one or two have had serious problems, but at least the manufs are trying.
 
I think others have put it well. But I guess that won't prevent me from putting in my own 2 cents.

It seems to me tha the golden age of American appliances was the post-war period, up to about 1980. During this golden age, most appliances were designed and manufactuered with quality, durability, and reliability in mind. One need only compare the guage of steel and the thickness of the porcelain coatings to see the difference between an older washer and a modern one. Manufacturers like GE, GM, and others saw building quality appliances as a way to promote their names for other products. Additionally, the cost of these appliances was much greater than they cost today, relative to the average income. This means that far more labor could go into the product, as well as higher quality components.

Somewhere along the line, manufacturers started to discover that consumers could start viewing major appliances as disposable commodity type items. With just a few tried and true designs, the machines could be cheapened to the point where they had limited lifespans, but still earn a good profit. Plus, the eventual demise meant that the consumer would be back in the stores in five or ten years to buy another generic washer to replace the POS they plunked down $300 a few years earlier. I think in today's dollars, a washer that cost $300 in the early 60's would probably cost $2000 new today. Of you could find one.

I think people started to take washers and other major appliances for granted. No longer were they marvels of modern technology. And as such they didn't need to look all that great or stand up to routine use as well.

A few modern mfg's started to buck the trend in the late 90's and early 21st century. Maytag more or less started the trend, with its arguably overpriced Neptune washer series - which turned out were not really built as well as the price fixee might otherwise indicate. But to Maytag's credit, it stood by the product and offered many free repairs to out-of-warranty machines plagued by engineering and/or manufacturing shortcuts. Maytag, for a time, earned respect on Wall Street for its ability to stick with its premium pricing for what heretofore had been a boring product area. In other words, Maytag made a lot of money off the Neptune - at least until the chickens started coming home to roost. Next up was Kenmore/Whirlpool, with its HE3T series. Soon others saw the dollar signs and Bosch, LG, and others brought out their premium washers. Many of these machines are either built better than the original Neptune, or priced significantly lower. Suddenly styling was back in fashion - and some of the machines coming out look good enough to put in an entrance way, instead of hidden in a basement.
 
I agree very much about how we take something like our major appliances for granted....particularly laundry appliances.

Why does spending say 500 maybe $600 for a decent TL seem so damn outragous today? I guess a lot of us still equate higher prices with better quality.... though even that is not the case anymore in our disposable society.

Laundry is just something that has probably always been and always will be seen as an undesirable chore to most people who have to do it....thank goodness the folks on this site know better.
 

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