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kevinpreston8

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Joined
Jan 23, 2006
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I shared pics last year of my 1964 Oldsmobile Starfire.

It is up and running, needs a new distributor advance but is drivable.

I was doing routine "get it going again" tasks and was repairing my remote trunk release. This is an interesting mechanism in that it is not electrical, but uses engine vacuum--stored in a cannister--to release the trunk via a vacuum switch in the glovebox.

The actual box is missing in my car, fortunately a company makes replacements. Anyways, digging around in their two pieces of brown paper came down from way high up in the dash.

These are the highly prized "build sheets" that people always lose, or don't have in the first place. They can be in several places in a car, even the same model. Mine, crispy, crumbly and almost destoryed, have been up there under the hot dash decaying for 42 years.

Fortunately they are duplicates, and I can read most of the information on them. I scanned them both so I will now always have the image. Putting the original in dry white paper in a safe place.

This is a treasure trove of info, and any restorers out there, look for these in your car, behind the glovebox, in the seat springs, in the trunk, under the carpet. Get them before they are completely ruined.

On mine, I now know the carburator number, 4051, correct color of shocks, alternator and radiator numbers, and other information.

I now can see all the items that come with the Starfire stock, and all the options. U65 Wonder Bar Radio, electric window vents, trunk release, backup lights, safety buzzer, hood and turnk lights, to name a few, were all options.

I aslo see that the car was built in the Southgate Oldsmobile plant, and was delivered to Natzel Oldsmobile in Pasadena, CA.

This is rare and wonderful information and tells you alot of things about your car. Some live person, perhaps not even with us anymore, marked this up, placed it in the car, and perhaps bid farewell to it with a sense of pride.

Very cool.
 
Nice find Kevin! I don't think I ever found the built sheet for my 61 Olds, and I have had the car apart from stem to stern.
I do have the original invoice for mine, with my grandmothers name on it, and the price. Also have the 1,000 mile inspection sheet, along with other old recipts.
 
That is totally cool!!! Lots of nice information there!!! In newer GM cars, they put the build sheet in the glove compartment, and glue it down. They only put the option numbers in nowadays, and not the names. You must look up the numbers to names in a tech manual for that year. In some vehicles, like my Astro van, the glove compartment assembly is removeable, so the build data may not match the vehicle if the part had been swapped out for some reason.

One of the interesting things I have found about GM cars is that GM has frequently used these pretty much random numbers as exterior indication of a vehicle's type. For instance, "Z28" for the Camaros indicated the vehicle was equpped with the high performance package. "Z71" is commonly seen on the back of pickup trucks, and is nothing but an off-road package. "X11" was used on Chevy citation to indicate a turbocharger.

Many people over the years have tried to read into these numbers like they meant special stuff, like the cam grind of a particular engine, or how fast the vehicle was, or something obscure like that... But they are just nothing but number letter combinations the factory used to keep things straight!

What always amazes me is the huge list of options cars had back in the 60's like your Starfire. Today's vehicles have everything standard equpment, or in "packages" you can't get many things individually and customize a vehicle exactly the way you want it.
 
Rick...

Did you pull the glovebox out? (Usually held in with screws, will slide out, nothing more than fuzzy covered cardboard or some other type of fiber board)

Mine was under the dash, above the box. In other words, you would NEVER find it unless the glovebox was out of the car and you reached up to the dash. You might try it if you haven't already.

Some cars left the factory with no build sheet.

I found the one for my 1968 Charger years ago and cannot find it now. Darn. Especially important for Mopars.

Being a smart alecky guy, I immediately pulled the glovebox from my 1961 Pontiac Safari, but alas, no sheet. :-(
 
Kevin, I have had the whole dash out of the car. Never found it.
 
Cybr Option Coments

I know what you mean about options. When my dad would look for cars, I would pore over the brochures, there were pages of options.

Here is about 1/4 of the options folder I have for 1961 Pontiacs. This one is from Clark Auto Sales in Highland Park Michigan. Wonder if they are still there. (Never mind, just discovered that address is Levan Pharmacy. Wonder what happend to Clark)

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Kevin, is that "Southgate" plant our Southgate? It seems there must have been a time when a fair number of cars were manufactured here in LA.
 
Hey - another GM buff!

Hey Kevin! It is good to see another member of the board who is also into GM cars as well! I don't honestly remember you posting your 64 Starfire, but I'm sure it is beautiful!

I cannot agree with your message more - find these build sheets before the become illegible. I've included a copy of a build sheet I found on top of a gas tank on a 1978 Y-88 Trans Am parts car years ago. I'm surprised that it survived as long as it had. I've also seen them under the back seat, under the carpet, in door panels. I even found the build sheet to my own '78 Gold TA under the driver's seat! Good thing I beat the mice to it, that had gotten through half of it...

One quick question I have - on these early sheets where they list the RPO codes with descriptions (did this start in 63/64?) - when a asterisk is next to the code, does that indicate a standard option for the indicated trim level? This is what I've been able to determine on the Firebird build sheets.

Thanks for posting the 61 Pontiac brochure sheet - I've never seen one of the rear window screens - I bet that'd make driving fun!

Ben

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Yes, I found build sheets for my two '50 Plymouths. In both cases they were stuffed into the springs on the back of the back seat - I found them by pulling the seat back out for some thorough cleaning/installation of seat covers.

I also have a '64 Valiant, but I don't have the build sheet for that. Perhaps I need to pull the back of the back seat ;-).
 
Kevin, I remember that trunk release from daddy's 59 and 62 Super 88s. Maybe ours had a leak from day 1, but if you waited too long after turning off the engine, it did not work. Still, I would rather have that operate off engine vacuum than the windshield wipers like on some old cars where they would not wipe at very low speeds, like in snow storms, and how they sort of stopped in place when you shifted.
 
Window Sticker

When I bought "Elizabeth" from the daughter and son of the original owner, not only did they have the window sticker but the original owner's manuals with protect-o-plate and the dealer brochure.

Mr. Reich, the original owner, loved this car and ordered if from Central Motors in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Mrs. Reich did not drive and the children were not allowed to drive the car until they were of a certain age.

The Olds has proven to be a great car and I am driving it to New Hope, PA for the Grand Invitational of the Lambda International Car Club next week.

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Nice car Charlie

A few years ago I projected an upsurge in the value of station wagons. Just like years ago when I told people that muscle cars would beat out Corvettes in value, people laughed. Now we have $Million Hemi Cuda's and $15,000 station wagons. Nobody's laughing now.

My prediction, which I would put money on, is that the next group of cars to go up in value are the high optioned four doors. Why? Because they are dwindling in numbers, they are great rides, and they look fantastic. So many four doors and wagons were used in demolition derbys, then later, as parts cars to rebuild the more desirable coupes and convertibles. The prejudice against four doors and wagons is now precisely the reason their values will go up. How many people who cannot afford a convertible or coupe might opt for a "Vista" four door or a wagon?

People freak out when they see my partially rusty, but all there, 1957 Imperial Crown four door in my garage. No one care s that it has four doors. It is a cool car.

I bet yours drives like a dream. How do you like that trunk!!!

Tom....

Yes, I doubt that even new the vacuum stayed for more than a few hours. The lines have connectors and eventually all the air will leak out. It is really for opening your trunk right away.

I didn't even know mine had this as when I got the car, the glovebox was jammed closed. When I finally got it open, I pushed the button, there was a momentary pause, then I saw the trunklid silently raise in the rear view mirror. Cool!

Also, in some publications the GM fold-down glovebox door, with the recesses for your drink, were referred to as a "beverage bar". I bet you have one too.
 
4 door sedans

KP,

I agree with you about the 4 doors in the future. I have always preferred 4 door vintage cars because of the ease of entry, ability to carry people and relatively low price.

The lux-o-boats that GM made are my favorites, ie: Electras, 98s and Cadillacs. I sold my 66 Sedan deVille about 2 years ago and have not really missed it. I have become a fan of the large cars that are NOT heavily optioned as repairs are horribly expensive. The 66 had every doo-dad offered by GM and when anything went wrong it was a pain and expensive. I would gravitate more now towards the Callais and simple Electras.

I had a 69 Imperial LeBaron Coupe' that was a lot of fun and I have always had a fond spot in my heart for those cars. You could buy most of the above mentioned autos for significantly less than than the muscle cars or any convertible--which was great for me!

I'm on the lookout for a near mint condition 1969-72 Fleetwood. They are relatively cheap and have the much improved 472 engine over the 429 used up until 1967. They also are more astheically appealing to me as the "crash proof" bumpers had not yet started.

BTW, the trunk on the 98 easily could be rented out as a condo with lots of closet space! And, it is a WONDERFUL driver. Very quiet, smooth and the A/C will chill your buns off. The only thing I miss is veriable power steering control which didn't debut until 1966.

I've included a shot of the Imperial since you are a Chrysler fan.

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You're right Kevin about those mundane 4 door sedans etc. I find them just as exciting to look at now as the fancier models. And you don't see many of them brought back to their former glory at car show & shines either because nobody figured they'd ever be worth anything more than scrap value.

I also liked to pore over the brochures looking at all the available options in the old days before they were all packaged in convenience groups. Took the fun out of "building" your own car even if it was just a dream.

And all this reminded me.. when I was back "home" east the last few weeks house hunting me and my sister stopped for coffee in some small "farm" town and across the street I could see what looked to be a 65ish Olds convertible for sale. I meant for us to go back and have a look see after we toured a house but forgot about it.. Oddly on my last car trip back east two years ago I saw another 65ish Olds convertible for sale at a lot in a small farm town in N.Dakota.. a co inky dink or what ? Did small farm town people have a penchant for convertible Olds back in the mid 60's LOL
 

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