Switching back to a classic

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

Well, Like many of you, I have had serval machines over the years, top load and front load. I have to say, I've always had the best results with a front load washer.

On the subject of "special detergent", years ago it was "Dash" and it was recommended for all machines because of it's low sudings formula, thus being better for ALL machines. Today it's "HE" formula----hmmmmm sound familar yet?? Anyway, As far as long cycle times, My machine today is an HE3. I wash most things on the Heavy Duty cycle and adjust the water temp to the type of Load/fabric I'm washing. Estimated time is at 50 minutes. Sometimes it takes a little long than that, sometimes shorter. However, when running the washer and dryer together, They always shut off with in a minute or 2 of each other. So if your dryer is taking lets say 40 to 50 mins to dry a load of clothes, than whats the problem with the washer running that long. Can't do anything anyway until the dryer shuts off. As far as cleaning, my partner always wears white sox around the house like slippers and they are blacker than black when he puts them in the wash. (I have tile floors and a I mop them everyday). At the end of the cycle after being washed in hot water with a scoop of Tide HE they are very white with no trace of black on the soles.
 
I'm slightly confused!

I use a Miele (far cheaper here in Europe btw.. you guys are soooo ripped off!) anyway I really don't understand your speed-obcession.

I stuff the machine full of clothes to the point that there is absolutely no space in the drum.
Throw a small scoop of Ariel (one of the normal detergents in this part of the world)
A spash of conditioner (read fabric softener)
Set the controls press start and get on with my life!... often I run the machine just before I go to bed so the washing's done over night (on cheaper night rate electricity too)

If you need something urgently there's a QuickWash that only takes about 32 mins.

But, normally you'd put towels, bed linen etc on for a longer programme.

The long washes are ideal for very heavily soiled items or towels / bed linen which can be washed at relatively high temps (60 to 95C) (140 - 203F) for hygine reasons.

Normal washing is done at 30 or 40C (almost all washing) (86 or 104F).
Also, for normal washing you use a SHORT option so the cycle doesn't actually last that long. While these machines do have very long cycles, there's absolutely no reason to use them for everything! There are typically anything between 10 and 25 programmes on a european machine so the length of the wash really depends on how dirty the items are, what the fabric types are etc etc..

The temp is freely selectable between Cold and 95C/203F (obviously it doesn't allow inappropriately hot temps on wool or other delicate cycles)

I get the impression your H-Axis detergent selection's pretty bad over there too though. I've lived in Boston and the local supermarkets didn't seem to stock much in terms of HE detergents. In Europe, there really is nothing else except HE detergent and it seems to be far more effective as the market is for it is more developed. Although, I really don't understand why you guys don't have it as almost all detergent in both markets is made by UniLever and Proctor and Gamble.

Also, my experience of using a US whirlpool top loading machine wasn't too great. I didn't really think it held all that much more washing to be quite honest. Most of the drum was taken up by a huge agitator and if you overloaded it the clothes simply didn't wash at all and came out stained with detergent. The controls were pretty primative and didn't provide any real control over the temprature.

I found the rinsing performance to be absolutely pathetic and had some really nasty skin alergies which I soon found were caused by insufficiently rinsed clothes. (I washed my clothes in a H-axis machine in a laundry and they went away!)

I generally put the machine back through the rinse and spin cycle again when it finished to make sure the clothes were properly rinsed out and used the smallest amount of detergent possible.

Also regarding speed and capacity:

There are several machines over here that occupy quite a lot less space than a US toploader yet still have pretty serious capacity. e.g. see http://www.dyson.ie/range/range_overview.asp?model=CR02&sinavtype=pagelink

2 contrarotating drums ... i.e. the drum is split in half and the back and front half move in opposite directions. It has a 7kg load (15.43lbs), 78L (2.75cu ft) drum.

It will hapily wash a king size duvet (king size very thick quilt basically)

Anyway ... my point again : put your front loader on, go out do some shopping, go for a walk, sleep, go to work... or whatever! There's no real need to babysit these machines.

http://www.dyson.ie/range/range_overview.asp?model=CR02&sinavtype=pagelink
 
Well.....

Here in the States (Canada, too), we generally have large hot water tanks. It is not rare for a family of 2-3 to have a 40 to 50 gallon hot water tank. Until recently, having a washer be able to heat its own water was a novelty. Now, it makes sense (sort of) to me, to heat the water as needed. However, electric resistance heating is not necessarily the best approach, I think! :)

As for the cycle speed, it depends. As a single man, living alone, it makes little difference to me. (It probably does not make much difference in the end, but I do use my Maytag's "Extended Spin" setting.) However, when I was doing laundry for my mother, sister, and me, it made a huge difference. Also, if one has a large or active family, it also makes a difference.

I like FL washers, in theory. I have yet to own one, and have only used them in coin op settings.

This thread goes back to priorities. As water and energy get more expensive here in North America, I have a feeling that there may be a time when new toploaders are legislated out of production.

It is also a question of custom. If manufacturers other than Westinghouse had stayed with the FL here...

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
Cold/Hot Fill in Europe

The reason for the water heater in European machine's is nothing to do with the availability of hot water in European homes. (Most homes have signifigant quantities of hot water available on tap...)

Many older European machines (up to the late 1980s) filled with signifigantly more water than current models and used both hot and cold water. (The water would come up almost half way up the glass door!)

The heater was only used to maintain temprature or increase it to >60C

However, newer machines only use a tiny amount of water. They're often already full by the time hot water would get via the plumbing from the hot tank using only a few liters for the wash cycle.

That has made hot water fill rather pointless.

On top of that, biological detergents used in europe tend to perform best if gradually warmed up rather than simply added to hot water. The enzymes break down stains more effectively as the wash temprature gently rises.

Also, because wash tempratures are now much cooler (30-40C) it's difficult to get an accurate wash temprature with hot and cold filling. The temprature of water in a domestic hotwater system varies from home to home and, in some cases, could be more than 60C.

In the past, it was quite common to wash at 60C (hot water tank temprature) for quite a lot of washes.

Modern detergents have changed all that!
 
Also...

Washers in Europe have gone through similar environmental / legisilative / market pressure to become more and more efficient.

Water prices have gone up
Energy prices have gone up
and there's been a very definite legislative effort to force domestic appliance manufacturers to become more and more efficient.

E.g. all European appliances (and soon houses for sale/rent!) have to have an energy efficiency rating. They're rated from A to G (A = best G = Worst) and also rated on their wash and spin performance in the case of washing machines.

So, when you go into a store to look at appliances there's a label which is legally required that gives you a break down of how efficient it is, how well it washes and how well it spins. Manufacturers are forced to strive for AAA ratings otherwise they just look bad and don't sell.

These tests are carried out by an EU approved testing agency and the labels are a legal requirement and must be displayed.

They also operate on a sliding scale benchmarking system. .So, as things get more efficient, the bar is raised and what was an A rated machine 5 years ago might be a C rated machine today!
 
I'm just lovin this thread! Maytagbear, I have a feeling you
are right on the money about the future of F/L's in this country. I'm going to try and hang on to my T/L maytag for as
long as I can. I think you have good foresight.
Mrx, its interesting some of the points you have brought up
and shows the difference between Europe and stateside on some
things. Yes, I wouldn't mind owning a Miele if I could afford
one here in the US, I understand they are about the best washer
ever made period. But for now my Maytag will do fine, and its
fast cycle time.
Interesting thread.
Mrsalvo.
 
Anyone Like ASKOs

IMHO-

T/L are great for mud and grease and muck for truly filthy work clothes. More water and more detergent can simply hold in suspension more "yuck" and the rinsing.... as another member so eloquently said.....(hi girls!)...is a function of good dilution, so more water is better!

But for normal domestiic use, it's hard to beat the through-ness, and gentle-ness and felxibility of a F/L. Did I mention frugal-ness? My neighbor had an ancient Westinghouse [I was informed this is pronounced "We-stink-house" by a dear friend and club-member]in her place (came with apt)and she said it removed stains better than a top-loader.

I have the first front-load in the family. When the family comes in for the holidays they bring their

blankets
pillows
tennis shoes
coats
rugs.

And no... not to sleep on..... or go camping.........
no,no,no to wash in my F/L.

These things would choke their T/L machines or get ruined.

Haven't heard much about ASKOs... anywhere here in the club. Anyone have an opinion? (oh my that's a loaded question. LOL) And why, oh why, oh why, does Maytag put their name on them?
 
water conservation

another thought.

Are washers gonna become like water-saving toilets?

They use so little water that you have to run it through two cycles to get the job done well.....

PS those old waterhogs (toilets)are worth a small fortune ... if you can get them second-hand.

so keep yer water-hog washers.. LOL
 
1.6 flush isn't bad nowdays

I had a toilet that was among the first of these water stingy models and one had to stand over it to make sure it didn't stop up and that it flushed completely. I wore out a plumber's friend on it. This new one is much better. Haven't had any problem with it. However, I'm a bit reserved about the small water usage of these new front loaders. The Frigmore sounds like the best all-around washer of this type.
 
Frid-GE-more

I have this one. Psychologiclly, cleaning with so little water is hard to adjust-to. But it does do a great job.

Interesting tid-bit:

Of the four cycles

Whites Called "Normal" in the old days,
Colors "Perm. Press"
Short-wash and
Knits/Delicates

Only the 18 minute timer setting (HEAVY) of the "whites" cycle fills with water as the tumbler is revolving. For all the rest of the timer settings, the tumbler sits still while the machine is filling.

It's just plain stupid. When there are towels in there, the thing has to pause at least three times to re-fill because of all the water the towels absorb. Why doesn't it just keep turning for all fills?

I do "get" the phase when the wash water drains and the fill valve opens while the drain pump is still going. It's the equivalent of a spray-rinse in a T/L.... and probably necessary till we as a group/country/society get used to using way less detergent. But then why not spin too, while the water is still running?
 
We replaced the original (old and in bad shape) toilets when we moved in here, and 1.6 GPF is way too little. I hate the way they shut off in mid-flush...very annoying and clogs much more frequently. Now the pressure-assisted low-flushers are another story...

I replaced the weird flapper/chain assembly and the float valve on mine (an American Standard Cadet) with a "normal" one, and now it drains the whole tank...probably 3.5 gallons or so. You don't have to stand there to make sure it flushes either (like you have to do in my parents' bathroom). A big improvement without having to get an old, sometimes unreliable one!

--Austin
 
On the original topic--after you pull out the timer dial and it starts filling, my 1993 White-Westy FL begins tumbling constantly clockwise until the desired water level is reached...much better than the "fill-pause-tumble-fill-pause-tumble" method. After the pressure switch trips, it starts "dual-tumbling" for the wash. Haven't looked closely into the remainder of the cycles, but I think a constant spray rinse and deep rinse are somewhere...
 
Since I started this thread

Hi kids-I haven't been posting much lately as my shop has been really taking off. I do want to share the tale of the Maytag SE1000.
I had the Maytag stack at the house for about 6 weeks. At first I reveled in the fact that the Maytag cruised through its standard cycle in under 30 minutes. As time went on, I found that I needed to run everything through a second rinse, though this only added ten minutes. I also became increasingly dissatisfied with the extraction. Things that dried on the line were "crustier" than when spun in the HE3t.
Besides, the "used" appliance crowd wasn't interested in buying my high-end washer, so I have now switched back again to the high efficiency front load.

So I did the big switcharoo (Dennis has the patience of Job!) and the Maytag stack sold in a few days of hitting the floor. A lady in Kihei just bought a condo with a 24" stack and she wanted a full size machine. She had her moving guys pick it up on a thursday. Friday morning she calls me and says it washed for 5 minutes and quit. JFC! So I go there and discover that A) Its really overfilled with water (???) and the outlet to the washer is dead. So I get the washer going again and the damned thing starts SMOKING! I could have layed down and died right then! Its all so bizzare because it worked perfectly at my place for weeks-I even washed rugs! So my customer went and bought a new cheep fraudigaire stack and I brought it out for her when I picked up the Amnityville Maytag.

So I am better off with the HE3t anyway, since we are on the solar water thing. I can only count on truly hot water in the middle of a sunny afternoon. The rest of the time its merely warm.

Since this thread ended up with a discussion of toilets, I just want to say the the Eljer Savoy is the best low flow toilet I've seen so far-its cheap too!

The old agitator washers are more fun, but the front load does a better job, now that I really got to compare. I still get to play with the good old washers at the shop. Just turned over a Maytag A483 and now have a Gold A308 for sale.

The frontload police did NOT threaten to send me to Gitmo!
 
frontoaders vs top loaders

I have the new KitchenAid ensemble pair and the washer has a 35 minute cycle I use frequently.I have no problem with that at all.I also use the sanitary cycle to do my whites using NO bleach.Yes it takes about 1hour and 30 minutes but remember,most people DON'T imediately remove their clothes from the washer to the dryer.I have no problem at all waiting.In fact,I usualy do the long cycles before bed and place the wash in the dryer when I awake the next morning.
 
Frid-GE-more (not) tumbling while filling

Toggleswitch, I agree it would make sense to have tumble action while filling on shorter cycles and all rinses. I wonder if the new 05 model with 3.5 cu has that as one of its improvements? Still my 01 edition does a great job!
 
As a former owner of a Frigidaire Gallery FL machine, I can say factually that it cleaned better then ANY TL machine I ever had...GE Filter Flo, 1-18, Lady Kenmore 90, or my old Kenmore belt drive with dual action agitator . Of the TL machines, the FilterFLo was the best hands down. But perspiration stains, oil stains, grass, blood, ground in dirt all were no match for the Frig FL. When you are caring for an elderly parent, stain removing ability is paramount, and the FL beat the TL every time. Not to mention whitening ability....the FL with its bleach dispenser into the first rinse never let me down. The TL just could not compete. Clean is clean, it's not subjective. Either the stains/soils/odors are gone or they're not. Things never had to be re-washed with the FL machine....not so with the TL. Also interesting, it was never necessary to soak anything with the FL, unlike the TL. Timewise, the Frig FL took 40 minutes for a normal cycle. The TL machines were all never less than 35 - 40 minutes for a complete cyle. Hell, they took 5 minutes just to fill up. Factor in soak time when necessary, and the FL comes out way ahead. Modern FL machines, like LG, HE4T have capacities that NO TL machine can match....so you are able to wash more clothes at one time and actually have them come out clean!! So it takes 5 minutes longer...big deal!!
 
It's worth the wait

I agree with you andrew and as Hoovermatic said most can find something else to do while the machine does its work. We occasionally use 1T of LCB in the bleach dispenser diluted but much of the time use non-sudsing ammonia to the fill line in the bleach dispenser as a substitute to remove stains. About every 3rd wash we use LCB. We love the capacity of our Fridgidaire Gallery but wish that the dryer had a larger capacity. I was the one who pushed for a matched set (!) as the old Monkey Wards (Norge heritage) dryer worked just fine and everything dried in 20 - 25 minutes. With our Fridg dryer it is usually 50 minutes unless we select the bake cycle (anything above the medium-low setting). Live and learn!
 
In Defence of Front-Loading Washers (The Whirlpool Duet)

I found this board because I was looking for information about the water frugality of the Whirlpool Duet washer. Many of the postings here seem to be centred on complaints about front-loading washers~ in particular, long cycle times and requirements for special detergents.
I bought a Whirlpool Duet in 2002, and I have been ecstactic about it ever since. It's true that the cycle times are a bit longer than on my 18-year-old machine (a Kenmore top-loader). But... on the old machine, I had to reset the machine to get the second rinse; otherwise, the fabric softener would be wasted in the first rinse. I also had to reset the timer to extend the wash time. I could not leave the machine unattended because it frequently got out of balance on the spin. On the Duet, I can get an extended wash, a soak cycle, and a second rinse, all without returning to the machine. It's much easier than having to turn the timer back on the Kenmore to extend the wash time. Moreover, the Duet never gets unbalanced whilst spinning.
As far as detergent goes, I use regular Tide powder, not the HE kind. I just use less of it. The same thing goes for bleach and fabric softener.
The washer is extremely frugal with water, perhaps too frugal. Maybe I just want to see a bit more water in there, but at least the clothes are clean-- cleaner, in fact, than from my old machine. The extra high spin speed means that clothes emerge practically dry already, and that means less time in the dryer, and less electricity used. The cost of electricity is the largest factor relating to energy costs, after all, with gas being second.
With the front load design, I can wash things in it that I could not wash in the old machine-- or anywhere else. The handwash cycle is extremely delicate. I have washed pillows, electric blankets, caps, suits, and even certain leather items in it without any damage, whereas these items would most certainly have been damaged or destroyed in a top-loading washer. The no-spin setting is handy for items that must be drip-dried.
Even though cycle times are long, don't forget that you can wash twice the amount of clothes in one load that you can wash in a top-loader. So instead of doing two ten-pound loads, just do one twenty-pound load. Go ahead and fill it full! It saves water, detergent, energy, AND time. I can wash all of my clothes for one week in one load.
I have not once had a problem with my Whirlpool Duet washer and dryer in over two years. But... knock on wood. I have read about a lot of problems with Neptune washers. I vacillated about whether to buy one of those. I was swayed toward the Whirlpool by recommendation. I am not sorry that I bought this machine and would gladly buy it again if I had to do it over.
 
The Maytag stack....

After the horror I had with that Maytag stack I probably should have loaded it into a shipping container and got it the heck outta here. I just couldn't give up on it though. An email from another clubmember alerted me to the fact that the 24volt water valves on that machine are not the most reliable things on earth. It dawned on me that perhaps my Kihei customer had pretty high water pressure, which caused the valve to stick open and overfill the machine. So I replaced the valve with a new one, checked the machine over again and resold it last week to some people in Wailuku. No complaints so far!
 
Well, I purchased my SG1000+S1000 in 1988 or prior, and it has been in use ever since.....Until Now. The seal finally died and during the replacement water was sprayed all over the place, the ground connector on the control board was fried and the unbalance switch was broken into itty bitty pieces. I can bypass the ub switch but i do need a control board. This will be its second one, I replaced the first about 10 years ago as it came completely unlaminated, just everywhere. At that time it was only about 65.00 now they want at least 150.. Anyway YES I have been going to a laundromat and no, my clothes are not at all clean. Grumpy I am. If you have a control board let me know!
 
My mom ...

... bought her Maytag top-loader in the summer of 1984, when I was in high school (and while she was pregnant).

After nearly 30 years of often times *daily* use in our large household (at any given time there were anywhere from 4 to 8 people living in that big house), that sucker still looks and runs like it's brand-new. Mostly because my mom is fastidious about keeping her appliances well-kept and clean -- and my dad is handy.

Last month, though, something went on it, triggering a call to the same family-owned Maytag dealership from where she bought it. The now-owner, Brian, was just a young boy when he tagged along with his dad -- when it was his dad's dealership -- when they installed it for Mom. He of course remembered Mom, the house, and was thrilled to see that the old Maytag was still in near-perfect condition.

The fix was a $6 part and 12 minutes of his time. He charged my parents $20 and a cup of coffee and a slice of cake. He told my mom that her washer was one of the last great Maytags made by the "real" Maytag company, AND one of the last all-mechanical washers that was entirely mechanical, without computerization. He told her to hang onto that sucker as long as she could, because it can outwash and outlast even the high-end Miele and Bosch units he now sells.

******

My Manhattan apartment space limitations aside, when I eventually build my own home in the country, I have every intention of tracking one of you guys down and offering an insane amount of money for one (or more) of your lovingly-restored late '60s Lady Kenmore sets.

I can't stand this misguided "green" movement of using less water. Even the Maytag repair guy told Mom that the expensive new units can't get her clothes as clean as her old Maytag, because despite the propaganda and hype, less water DOES, in fact, mean less clean.

I'm a huge proponent of water -- LOTS of it -- and just *this* side of boiling -- to really clean and sanitize.
 
Matt,
I have the SG1000 model at summer home at the Jersey Shore. It survived Sandi mainy becasue of the fact the motor is upside down and we only had 3 inches of water in our home..we did loose all kitchen appliances but not this Maytag. It definitly is a work horse, in the time I had it changed dryer belt about 7 years ago and the Washer belts after Sandi. Machine is still pushing out the loads of clothes. We use the summer house all year long so it is used every week especialy in the summer daily use 2 to 3 loads of clothes..... I plan on keeping it for as long as it keeps pumping out the loads and repair it as long as I can...
Bill
 

Similar threads

mrboilwash
New Miele DW does not regenerate
Replies
24
Views
1K
henene4
H
H
Speed Queen TV2000wn - early review / permanent lid switch fix
Replies
3
Views
692
HighpowerXTL5K
H
pierreandreply4
could these inglis whirlpool washer dryer be 1978 models or earlier i can only estimate
Replies
0
Views
292
pierreandreply4
pierreandreply4
M
Kenmore laundry center tripping breaker
Replies
3
Views
220
combo52
combo52
Unimatic1140
An Interesting Test with a New Meter
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
maytag85
maytag85

Latest posts

Back
Top