Television question-Plasma vs LCD

[twinniefan]

Good morning to all and I hope everyone had or his still having a terrific Christmas day and got lots of great gifts and plenty of love from family and friends.
A question I am thinking of upgrading to a new televsion but I can't work out the main differences between plasma and l.c.d., it does seem on my travels that plasma may be phasing out as there do not seem to be as many of them and the prices have come down markedly,but if it is going to be a dissapearing technology maybe I might be best to go for l.c.d..
I know for sure that I do not want a huge unit,40 inch upwards as they are simply too large for our loungeroom and such a large unit would just swamp everything else, so I am thinking 32 inch,(81 cm.) or at max 37 inch (94 cm.).
Also any thoughts on particular brands, there is one unit I am a bit keen on a 32 inch full H.D. Hisense,(a chinese brand.)which comes with a full 3 year in home warranty, but after the Kleenmaid experience these things may not be worth the paper they are written on.
All opinions and advice grealy appreciated.
Cheers.
Steve.

 

[frigilux]

My vote goes to plasma. LCDs have a difficult time producing a true "black". You'll have less motion blur with a plasma, too. To clinch the deal, they have a much wider viewing angle than most LCDs.

Plasma TVs were notorious for using more electricity than LCDs, but the newest models are more energy efficient.

 

[petek]

I nixed plasma one the gut feel they were going to become the next beta or 8 track dinosaur plus more reflection etc and not so good in a lit or bright room. Bought a 32" Akai LCD a couple of years ago and it's been good. Just bought a 40" Samsung LCD about a month ago and it's very very good though my other half thinks it's too big for where we sit watching it. I don't mind, he liked the 32" better but I'm bringing that down to my rek room since we can never agree on what to watch at the same time. Don't rush,, every day you wait the prices just keep dropping further down. My Samsung which was on sale when I bought it is now regularly priced lower than the sale price I paid barely a month ago by over $100

 

[mattl]

Plasma ---- but not for you!

I own a number of sets both plasma and LCD. Plasma is the best all round performer, but it's only available in 42" and up. The best all round deal out there is the HIGHLY respected Panasonic 42" mode 42X1. Can be had for $475 or so. Stunning performer-- especially at the price.

LCDs are another case of hype over performance. All the hype you read about 120 hz and 240 HZ is just that hype. In actuality these processes where developed to mask LCDs shortcomings. LCD consists of millions of little shutters that open and close. It takes time for them to open and close, to change states if you will. This creates motion lag, resulting in choppy monition on the display. Plasma does not have this issue in that it is very similar to phosphorus displays we've used for a generation or more and operate at the speed of light and are capable of doing gradations, ie. half brightness where as LCD is just open longer or shorter times.

Adding LED to the mix, is just adding more fixes to a second rate product. Plasma can display a large range of brightness in various places on the screen as needed. With LCD there are fluorescent tubes that are on all the time behind the LCD layer, these produce the light on the screen. To solve the problem of light and dark areas of the screen they developed selectable dimming LED backlighting. This way the light output in certain sections of the screen can be dramatically reduced or increased. It works, but it in it's infancy, and requires massive computing power to make it work well, that is why it's so expensive. Also there is a very nice markup on the LCDs since they are "hot' at the moment. Plasma is not going anywhere and even if it does so what, your set is not going to be obsolete.

My recommendation is go much bigger than you think you need, I have a 40" LCd in my bedroom that is not overly large, 12x14 or so and it just the right size. Also in that situation the ONE deal killer with LCDs is not an issue, and that is off axis viewing, When you shop, walk around the set you are looking at. LCDs rapidly loose color and detail off axis, as little as 19 degrees. Straight on they look fine , move a bit and they look like crap.

Stick with big name brands, in Plamas and LCD Panasonic and Samsung are the best. Vizio tries hard but they are pretty much a very second tier player in terms of quality, I would not own one, and the store brands you should runaway from very quickly.

One other thing sales people will through at you as if it's the gold standard is 1080p. On large sets, 55" and up, perhaps 50" if you are very picky you will notice a difference, but below 50" you will be very hard pressed to see any difference between 720p and 1080p. Odds are if you do see a difference it's either a mis-adjusted set, or you brain is fooling you. Test after test has shown there are only very few people that can discern the difference, odds are 5% of the population. Plus a number of the major networks, ABC and ESPN use 720 as a broadcast standard.

Go out and look, and read, read, read, AVS forums are very good at giving you the straight facts on whatever model you are considering, but you will do a lot of reading...

Good luck!

 

[mattl]

Oh, sorry just noticed you are not in the states -- my info is still valid, but there may be other choices in brands available to you, and I'm not sure what your broadcast standard is...

 

[sudsmaster]

I prefer the look of plasma over lcd, but my one and only flat panel tv is a Vizio 42 inch LCD. It's been trouble free and the picture is quite good, although I have noticed a dark hued movie like the first Batman has some dark scenes that are difficult to see much detail in.

Probably my next flat panel will be a plasma unit. I'll move the Vizio LCD from the living room to the office/family room, and put the plasma in its place. But I'm in no hurry.

In any case, either technology is a quantum leap over CRT tv and that gawd awful rear projection design.

 

[tolivac]

This will be my next set-after my "gawd awful RPTV" fails.So far my Hitachi RPTV HD has done very well-gives an excellent pix 1080I when used with a BluRay player.The next set I want will be---The Samsung LED TV.It uses LEDS for the LCD backlight.It draws less power than other LCD sets,but is more expensive-the Samsung LED sets can be seen at Best Buy.46",and 55" sizes.The picture is better than either the LCD or Plasma.The set is lighter,easier to hang,and thinner case.And when its running no heat that can be felt.The Samsung LED TV is a Quamtum leap ahead of Plasma and standard LCD.See one and you will beleive it.With the LED TV-think Plasmas days may be limited-and with new energy laws passed in Calif-Calif folks may want to update on this-Plasma sets have beeen banned or restricted in California becuase of their power draw.

http://www.samsung.com/led/

 

[ronhic]

Steve...

...We are on our second plasma - my parents feel fortunate to have inherited the first.

We originally bought a 42" TEAC, which you, as an Aussie, will recognise as a bargain brand. To say that the picture was as good as TV's more than twice its price is an understatement...We favourably compared it 4yrs ago to high end Panasonics, Samsung and Pioneer. Sound was a different matter, but we went for a 5.1 separate system so it didn't count.

We currently have a 50" Samsung HD plasma. It is truly fantastic and cost about the same amount as the TEAC did previously...technology is becoming very cheap...

I would suggest trying to watch something fast moving on simmilarly priced sets...say tennis or foot ball, where you will see deterioration in the picture as the screen trys to keep pace with the fast movement of the ball...

Generally speaking, and from our experience, Plasma will be better at managing this. Try not to be swayed by the energy rating of the appliance either...in this instance, your enjoyment and 'cinematic' experience is worth the extra few dollars a year to run a plasma....

Oh, and as for swamping a room....you should sit about 2 1/2 times the screens diagonnal measurement away for the best view...so if your head would normally be more than 2.5metres from the screen, then a 42" screen would be perfect....

 

[twinniefan]

Thanks to all

Thanks to you all for your great info and advice yes I think I might just wait a little while all your info on prices is quite correct, one only has to look through this morning's newspaper for all the post Christmas sales, for example Dick Smith Electronics has a Sanyo 32 inch H.D. L.C.D going for just $578.00 Aus and also have a 42 inch Sanyo full H.D. L.C.D.going for $890.00, after reading some of your posts I may have been a little hasty in ruling out plasma and a larger set, I will most certainly be doing plenty of reading and looking at various sets.
I have noticed one thing though,quite a lot of the stores only have them on while playing D.V.D.'s I think this could be a trap as D.V.D's in my view anyway look good on any tv, before I make any decision I want to see actual tv stations being broadcast in particular fast moving sports etc as Ronhic suggests.
Thank you all for your info and experiences once again.
Cheers.
Steve.

 

[gizmo]

listen to the sound

I too am looking at a new TV.

As we are on solar power I particularly watch power consumption, and no plasma will do the job.
We are looking at 22 inch LCD, or maybe 26 inch at most.

I have gone into shops armed with my power consumption meter, and (with permission) plugged different tvs into the meter - Sony and Toshiba were the best I looked at. Panasonic don't have a 22 inch in Australia.

I particularly like the Sony, but it is only available in white. (which I hate - I want black.)

I made a point of turning down the sound on all tvs around me so I could assess the sound of each TV without being fooled by other tvs nearby. The Sony sounded good for a small TV, the Toshiba sounded terrible at default settings but I could go into the menu and adjust it to sound good.(though one Toshiba rattled when volume was turned up). The Voxson, a cheaper brand currently at really low prices, had really good sound (the best I heard at factory settings) and had 1080p picture which looked good. But its remote looked a tiny bit cheap, and you couldn't adjust the tilt of the screen.

I thought the Hisense sounded really awful - like a $2 transistor radio. I played with the sound adjustments but it still sounded dreadful.

I checked with Choice magazine, Panasonic came best in several tests, with very good scores also going to Sony. Voxson also came second in one test, though that was for the smallest sets tested (26 inch) and they commented that none of the sets tested was very good, though Panasonic wasn't as poor as the rest. There was no Sony in that test.

Things to look for:
-Assess picture quality, especially viewing from sideways angle, and from above/below. There is a big difference between brands. Watch live TV with moving images of people on the screen. Watch for skin tones looking lifelike, for blurring/smearing of moving images, and blurry edges to text, and blacks that look black. [To be honest I was underwhelmed by all I saw, it makes me consider just keeping our old 21 inch UK manufactured Tatung CRT tv, which has lovely pic and superb sound, though its tuner hasn't worked for years so we have to watch it through digital set top box or satellite box.]
- listen to sound, especially voices, at different volumes, listen both for pleasant tone, and also buzzes/rattles from loose speakers or plastic trim.
- look for the different inputs to match your needs (now and expected future.) For example I need 2 composite Video inputs (yellow video plus red and white audio.) Most smaller sets only have one composite video input. Some have one input, one output. Some have one HDMI, some have several.
- Make sure you play with the remote. Some have rows and rows of similar buttons with tiny markings, others have large clear markings and buttons grouped in logical positions. I think the Panasonic and Toshiba had particularly good, clear remotes, the Sony was clear but a bit untidy looking, the mystery brands were terrible.
- use the remote too - some have an annoying long delay to respond when you change channels. Some sets have functions with their own buttons on the remote, on other sets you have to scroll through a menu to access the same function. Think about which functions you will use often, you will want quick easy access to them.
- If you care about power consumption, look for a TV where the power switch on the TV turns the set completely off, not just standby. Several Sanyo and Palsonic (not Panasonic) have this feature, in fact the Sanyo and Palsonic appear identical and probably come from the same factory.

Chris

 

[58limited]

Plasma TVs have a half life of around 7 years. This may not be a problem for most people in that the TV might wear out before the half life effects can be seen with the naked eye, but plan on the image to fade gradually after 7+ years.

Having said that, plasmas have the brightest picture that I've seen. When I went to the store and compared TVs, they had displays with similar (resolution, size, etc.) plasmas, LCDs, and LEDs next to each other. The LEDs had the best picture. LEDs were more expensive, followed by LCDs, and then plasmas. I haven't bought one yet, my five year old Hitachi 57" RPTV still works great. The only reason I'm considering a new TV is that the Hitachi is too bulky and the top is sloped so I can't put the DVD or entertainment system components on top of it. A nice console with a flat TV would be a better utilization of my space.

I don't personally worry about the sound from the TV because I use an entertainment system with its own speakers. My system is definitely not high end, I bought a mid-range system on clearance at Office Depot, but it sounds great in my house.

 

[mattl]

Well, the half life of a plasma is now about 100,000 hours, which means that at that point the image is about half as bright. I seriously do not think anyone will use a set for 100,000 hours, that's over 11 years with the set on 24/7. My trusty RCA that died last year after 7 great years has an odometer, it showed just over 60,000 hours, and that is only the time if was plugged in, not turned on.

I have done a lot of research, as I bought 3 new big screen tvs this year. Plus, I used to sell the stuff and have an electronic degree. At this point I would not buy an LED set, it's too new, they have not been on the market 2 years yet, no track record. If you have the money the hands down best display out there is the discontinued Pioneer's. Absolutely stunning image, plasm,a large sizes are still north of $3k. I own the cheap Panny 42X1 I mentioned, it's stunning and compares favorably to the 50A650 Samsung I paid 4 times as much for and had professionally calibrated for another $300. I also have the 40B650 Samsung LCD, which cost as much as the 50" Samsung plasma and it's performance on axis is fine, stand up or move a bit and it's total crap.

I have a large family and am the go to guy for Video, all of them have been told to avoid LCD as the cost/benefit ratio is pretty poor. You get a better image, wider viewing angle -important for family situations- and a proven technology for MUCH less money. Every current generation of plasma has overcome all the fud that is out there, burn in is non existent, and they are just as bright as any set out there. I guess you know which camp I'm in...

 

[whirlaway]

LCD!!!!!!

My neighbor received a 32inch Panasonic 2 years ago for Christmas,it is in use 20hours everyday.I was there the other day and it still looks sharp and clear as when he received it.Plasma TVs are not as sharp nor do they last as long.I look at the ones in Costco about 3times aweek.LCD has it all over the plasma.These TVs are changed fairly regularly.LCDS seem to remain crisp and bright,and not troublesome.With all of them they should be ventilated well.The Panasonic and Samsung I like the best.Also go by how well you can see it and make sure the settings are correct.Some of them in the stores are so out of their proper settings. Good Luck Bobby

 

[petek]

And don't forget when you're out there tv shopping that in most stores they have the tv's set to "vivid" or some such setting to make all the colors etc especially bright and pop out,,too bright usually for viewing at home for long, you have to tone it down a little with another setting.

 

[DADoES]

 
My 42" Panasonic plasma is 7.25 years old (purchase date 9/28/2002). It still looks perfectly fine to me. I check it every couple years or so with an AVIA calibration disc (not professional-level calibration, I know).

ALL phosphor-based displays fade over time, including the venerable CRT ... but that apparently didn't much stop people from buying them.

CRTs fire red, blue, and green electron guns in the neck of the picture tube at a phosphor coating on the inside of the front glass, aimed/converged magnetically through a mask to produce the image pixels.

Plasmas have each pixel composed of a red, blue, and green phosphor subpixel. Each subpixel is addressed by an electrode grid and fired individually. The "electron gun" is integral to each subpixel so no aiming/converging is involved. The image is essentially produced directly by millions of tiny light bulbs of varying color and brightness ... as compared to MattL's description of LCD which works by way of a shutter grid blocking/coloring a white/fluorescent backlight.

Plasma vs. LCD power consumption has been discussed in the past. Plasma does pull more power, but it's not a huge figure. I clocked mine at about 375 watts average for a typical picture (white/bright images take more power than darker images). New plasma models surely are leaner-and-greener.

 

[whirlaway]

High Power Consumption

My 1956 RCA color set doesnt pull that many watts,with 30 tubes.What does the average LCD pull? Bobby

 

[panthera]

I sort of find the entire discussion moot

Since any TV you buy is not going to be repaired once the warranty expires, it is irrelevant whether it is plasma, LED, LCD, what it is backlit with or not.
We're talking about such a minor level of energy consumption, I wouldn't let that be a consideration.

All that matters is whether you like the picture or not for the price you pay and the (not worth the paper they're written on) 'warranties' and 'guarantees'.

Personally, I find the newest LEDs have wonderful pictures and suspect they will supplant both older technologies in the near future, with prices falling enormously.

I have several friends who panic when Microsoft 'drops' their operating system, three years ago several fell for the Vista disaster because sales in-duh-vi-duals told them their XP was going to stop working at the end of 2007!

 

[sudsmaster]

drifting windows

I'm still on Windows 2000 Pro... have a shrink wrap copy of XP that I refuse to install, though. Have had it for about five years now. Some day I might install it. But the limitation on the number of installs without calling Microsoft for permission offends me, even though I'd only use it on one machine anyway. I just don't like that added complication when upgrading a system's hardware.

Again, the picture quality on my Visio 42" 1080p LCD panel if very good. Especially on 1080 broadcasts. I have noticed however that some of the local stations have done something less than desirable with their 720 broadcasts. The motion is jerky on the Vizio. Not on the set-top equipped older TV's. Motion is fine at 1080 or 480. This just started happening a couple weeks ago so I figure it's something the local transmitter did (they all transmit now from Sutro Tower in SF).

As for warranties, I basically agree. When my Vizio goes out it will be replaced, not repaired. I expect that might not be for many years. Although I'd expect that if I paid $5k on a fancy new humongous 60"+ 120 hz LED LCD with all the bells and whistles I might get an extended warranty just in case.

When I cruise by the Costco video section I compare the picture quality between the LCD's and the plasmas, and within the LCD's. The gap is getting more narrow in terms of sharpness, contrast, and viewing angle. Some LCD's are significantly better than other LCD's in terms of side viewing. The Sony Bravia line seems to be good in that respect. Of course it's difficult to know how these sets were configured but I'm having to assume they were all set up for maximum effect.

 

[sudsmaster]

I was in Costco this afternoon after work (it's nearby) and I cruised the TV section. There was an rather ill-mannered large family gathered in front of the worst set in the store: a 60"+ DLP rear projection model. And it wasn't that cheap - about $2000, as I recall. The picture was awful - dim and blurry. But the dad appeared to be quite determined to get it. The kids (early teens) were fighting and pushing and after trying to squeeze my way by them once and getting shoved, I avoided them after that. I think they deserve the crappiest set in the store ;-). Heck, I would have helped them load it into their car...

 

[tolivac]

Would have been funny to see the "crummy" vision Moose set family in Costco.Probably the projection bulb in the set is too far gone to compete with the stores "sunlight" lighting system.You would probably need the stores forklift to load the set into their car--or truck!Think of how long that TV was running on the showroom floor set to the factory "Blowtorch" picture setting-you know brightness all the way up,contrast all the way up and color all the way up.And I bet the projection head-the lamp was set to the "high" setting!New bulb for such a set-probably 400-600 bucks.Glad RPTVs are going-will be nice to get rid of mine when it dies.So far for a "moose" set gives a rather nice picture-When I took delivory of my set-took it off the factorys "blowtorch" burn your eyes and projection tube settings.The RPTV sets -their size-its like having a MOOSE in your living room!

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Steve,

We've got a 40" Full HD Panasonic LCD at home that is now almost 2 years old. On an LCD of that size, we dont notice any motion blurring, viewing angle is almost 180deg and its good in bright light situations. We oaid $1400 for that set, and at the time compared the non-full hd Model. The only time you could really see any difference, was when the two were side by side. Individually the picture was just as sharp on each.

In October we bought Michaels Mum one of the New Panasonic Full HD Neoplasma 50" Sets RRP was $2599, we paid $1600. It is supposed to have lower energy consumption than the earlier ones and Panasonic say the screen should be half as bright after 30 years. Compared to our TV we're not fond of the colour reproduction, regardless of how it's configured, they still seem not quite right. The neoplasma gets a 3 star energy rating, whereas the cheaper models are still only one.

We were less fussed about the picture quality for her TV and more about that it had the same remote as our TV, that way if she managed to access an AV mode or a menu, we can talk her through how to get back to TV without trying to strangle her through the phone.

The extended Panasonic warranty on their TV's out to 5 years is about $200 for LCD's and $600 for the Plasma's, so it would appear they see their LCD's to be the more reliable beastie. We took the warranty extension on our LCD but figured for the cost on the Plasma, it'd be cheaper to just replace it should it ever fail.

The Panasonic warranties are great, on our last 80kg 80cm CRT, at 4 years and 11 months old, we called for service to have it adjusted. The came on collected it, carried it down two flights of stairs, took it away, recalibrated it and then brought it back as good as new. All at no cost to us.

If you want a large LCD, I think the Samsung's picture looks better than the Sony's, plus the Sony has a very slow interface compared to other brands.

It all depends how much you want to spend, if it's less than $1000 go for the baby Panasonic or Sony or Samsung. The picture quality should be pretty good and you should be good for 5 years. Just make sure that if you get from a discount retailer that you're getting a model with a HD tuner, not Analog and Preferabley not SD as you'll miss out on some of the channels that are now available.