Only now they're calling it the Airbus A220. 5-across seating in Coach is nothing new.
The Convair 880 flies again! (sort of)
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Only now they're calling it the Airbus A220. 5-across seating in Coach is nothing new.
Supposedly it's a sweet ride. I would love to get back to those days...little I enjoyed more on a Sunday morning than a nice long flight, window seat, and the Financial Times, NY Times and the local newspaper that I could read section after section.
It was interesting flying on Delta in November, with them leaving middle seats free. It felt like flying 30 years ago (I had a job for 3 years where I was flying constantly) and a jammed full flight was noteworthy, not routine.
It was interesting flying on Delta in November, with them leaving middle seats free. It felt like flying 30 years ago (I had a job for 3 years where I was flying constantly) and a jammed full flight was noteworthy, not routine.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Does it go as fast as the Corvair? Or guzzle as much additional fuel for the speed increase?
Accounts of the plane have been all over the place. It was both very safe and very dangerous. The extra fuel required for the speed differential ate the profit for airlines. Yet trans-pacific flights were almost always full.
No matter what I read I felt like I wasn't getting the full story......
Accounts of the plane have been all over the place. It was both very safe and very dangerous. The extra fuel required for the speed differential ate the profit for airlines. Yet trans-pacific flights were almost always full.
No matter what I read I felt like I wasn't getting the full story......
Every time I see a picture of a TWA StarStream 880 . . .
. . . I always wonder if it's the one our family flew on in 1965. My 4 brothers and I were in shirts and ties, Dad in a suit, Mom and my 2 sisters in dresses.
Some say air travel went downhill when people stopped dressing up to fly.
. . . I always wonder if it's the one our family flew on in 1965. My 4 brothers and I were in shirts and ties, Dad in a suit, Mom and my 2 sisters in dresses.
Some say air travel went downhill when people stopped dressing up to fly.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
"Some say air travel went downhill when people stopped dressing up to fly."
While I'm too young for suit & tie , I *AM* old enough that wearing jeans never even crossed my mind. I think it was my 2nd or 3rd flight by myself that I noticed jeans. I kept my thoughts to myself but more than a few other passengers made their disdain clear. Even the stewardesses seemed offended.
Your decompression began at check in. You then waited in a lounge with or without a drink or a smoke as you preferred. It seemed like most of the other passengers regarded their travel as a pleasant interlude devoid whatever stressors lay before and after their flight. Boarding was almost serene.
Even in economy there was plenty of legroom. The flight itself was a bit of heaven. People kept bringing you food and alcohol and otherwise left you alone. What could be better?
You arrived at your destination less fatigued than when you left, not more.
Now? the less said, the better......
While I'm too young for suit & tie , I *AM* old enough that wearing jeans never even crossed my mind. I think it was my 2nd or 3rd flight by myself that I noticed jeans. I kept my thoughts to myself but more than a few other passengers made their disdain clear. Even the stewardesses seemed offended.
Your decompression began at check in. You then waited in a lounge with or without a drink or a smoke as you preferred. It seemed like most of the other passengers regarded their travel as a pleasant interlude devoid whatever stressors lay before and after their flight. Boarding was almost serene.
Even in economy there was plenty of legroom. The flight itself was a bit of heaven. People kept bringing you food and alcohol and otherwise left you alone. What could be better?
You arrived at your destination less fatigued than when you left, not more.
Now? the less said, the better......
Now there is fighting and brawling on flights today-just like kids!With all this just staying home!!!
And the most memorable feature of TWA StarStream jets . . .
. . . was the aroma of dinner rolls baking in-flight the moment the plane hit cruising altitude. Both galleys had ovens, so everyone got one.
. . . was the aroma of dinner rolls baking in-flight the moment the plane hit cruising altitude. Both galleys had ovens, so everyone got one.
neptunebob
Well-known member
I want to see the Russian MC-21 come on the market
The plane looks promising, but it is made by, uh, the Russians.
Meanwhile, Joe, what did your father do that he could afford to fly all of your large family back then?
The plane looks promising, but it is made by, uh, the Russians.
Meanwhile, Joe, what did your father do that he could afford to fly all of your large family back then?
Dad was a welder at Kaiser Steel in Fontana. When all of us reached school age, Mom went to work, too, starting as a clerk typist at Cal State San Bernardino and later became California's first OCLC* Girl, running the state's first computerized book cataloging system at Cal State's library.
None of us ever saw the inside of a day care center.
*Ohio Computer Library Center, later Online Computer Library Center.
vacerator
Well-known member
Are these the jets first built with square---and Corvair
corner windows that caused stress fractures? Ifa Corvair guzzled gas it was one fitted with the gasoline heater.
corner windows that caused stress fractures? Ifa Corvair guzzled gas it was one fitted with the gasoline heater.
arbilab
Well-known member
The one with square-ish windows was Comet, British. Fuse cracked/exploded after x pressure cycles.
Long time since refresh, but wasn't Convair the one with resonances that shook it apart mid air?
Long time since refresh, but wasn't Convair the one with resonances that shook it apart mid air?
No, that was the Lockheed Electra. The Convair was just uneconomical...
arbilab
Well-known member
Thanks, it comes back now. I was 12yo, much more aware of appliances than aircraft.
Five abreast seating was/is a feature of the DC-9/MD-80/717 family of aircraft, and why I much preferred them to a 727 or 737. There is just a little more elbow room.
vacerator
Well-known member
Thank's Rick, yes
it was the Comet!
it was the Comet!
The 880 was tight in this configuration. Notice the sidewalls on the 220 have little curvature and the bins create good headroom. The 880 did not have this benefit.
GD/Convair might have had a real winner on their hands were it not for the constant delays and interference from Howard Hughes.
In the end, although the PR department loved to trumpet about the "fastest" jets, it didn't really matter.
Speed had pretty much reached it's apex with the first generation of jets and, although delivery was a bit later than the 880's, the 720 came with a family of jets. The 720B was just as fast and the cost of operations by just about any form of measure, was superior. So once the 720 was announced Convair was hard pressed to sell any more 880's.
Because of Hughes constant tinkering almost no two 880's were the same. GE had never hung a version of the 805 on a commercial aircraft and did not have the benefit of experience with the airlines or commercial operations. And like other pure jet engines of the day, they were very smokey. After a clutch of them had taken off the whole airspace along the take off path looked like the mosquito control had driven through.
Convair's attemp to make an even faster version resulted in the 990 which was also financial disaster for Convair.
It was a shame because Convair had a reputation here in the US like Vickers did in Great Britain, of building very sound and reliable airframes. They bowed out of the commercial business for good.
All that being said, I loved travel on the 880's. A DL 880 was one of the first jets I remember flying on, from ATL to MIA. I flew on many of them over the years. I also knew one of DL's 880 check airmen. Somewhere I have an original cockpit ops. manual he gave me. There was something "raw" about flying on the jets back then because creature comforts such as noise and refined flying techniques were not issues that had been tackled, yet.
Needless to say, the 220 is probably a really nice aircraft, but, none of the new stuff has any of the enticement that the old smokies had.
GD/Convair might have had a real winner on their hands were it not for the constant delays and interference from Howard Hughes.
In the end, although the PR department loved to trumpet about the "fastest" jets, it didn't really matter.
Speed had pretty much reached it's apex with the first generation of jets and, although delivery was a bit later than the 880's, the 720 came with a family of jets. The 720B was just as fast and the cost of operations by just about any form of measure, was superior. So once the 720 was announced Convair was hard pressed to sell any more 880's.
Because of Hughes constant tinkering almost no two 880's were the same. GE had never hung a version of the 805 on a commercial aircraft and did not have the benefit of experience with the airlines or commercial operations. And like other pure jet engines of the day, they were very smokey. After a clutch of them had taken off the whole airspace along the take off path looked like the mosquito control had driven through.
Convair's attemp to make an even faster version resulted in the 990 which was also financial disaster for Convair.
It was a shame because Convair had a reputation here in the US like Vickers did in Great Britain, of building very sound and reliable airframes. They bowed out of the commercial business for good.
All that being said, I loved travel on the 880's. A DL 880 was one of the first jets I remember flying on, from ATL to MIA. I flew on many of them over the years. I also knew one of DL's 880 check airmen. Somewhere I have an original cockpit ops. manual he gave me. There was something "raw" about flying on the jets back then because creature comforts such as noise and refined flying techniques were not issues that had been tackled, yet.
Needless to say, the 220 is probably a really nice aircraft, but, none of the new stuff has any of the enticement that the old smokies had.
