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>> Eddie, this is exactly the scenario I had in mind when I posted my reply #27. What crazy programer thought
>> that this would be a good idea? With the way people drive today and the increased traffic just about
>> everywhere a driver had better be able to make split second decisions and maneuvers to avoid a potential
>> collision with no second guessing by “Alexa”, or whoever. No on board computer can possibly be programmed
>> for each of these individual hazardous situations.

The logic behind the driving assist features in cars today is based much more on simple statistics than on instantaneous situation evaluation and all of the sensors, trajectories, and fallible decision making calculations that that entails.

In the case presented in post #37 for example, the problem might have never occurred at all had the offending car ALSO had lane-departure assistance. And given the modern distracted driver's propensity for lane wandering, it's a rather safe conclusion that features such as lane departure and automatic emergency braking are going to prevent a lot more injuries/deaths than they cause - even if the number of accidents they cause or contribute to is non-zero.
 
Toyota Safety Sense and Honda Sensing

We have a 2019 Honda CRV with Honda Sensing and Blind spot monitor. We really like both of these features (Honda Sensing includes Automatic Breaking) but have the lane keeping turned off. Bob's Mom has a Toyota Rav4 with Toyota Safety Sense and she loves that also. Her car also has blind spot monitor. I think Automatic Breaking and Blind spot monitor are almost a necessity and I will not buy a car without both. Personally I would not use the lane keeping or the advanced cruise controls which both cars do have. Consumer reports recommends both of these features and mentions them in its reviews. Many manufacturers charge more or force you into buying a more expensive trim level to obtain some of these features. Toyota has the most vehicles with Safety Sense as standard. Blind spot monitor is an option. I really dislike Ford with the F150 as you need to buy at least the XLT and then add $590 for blind spot but to add it you must add a $2000 option package. We drive a lot on Highway 80 up to Nevada and have never had a problem. I think you would have to get really close to a car in passing to activate the Automatic Breaking. It will alert you before breaking.
 
Most safety features start out as luxury car features or in high trim levels of other makes and models and then trickle down to become standard features.

Can remember when ABS brakes were an option, and more recently backup sensors and cameras on luxury cars and TOL trim levels. As of a few years ago all cars in US have to include backup camera as standard equipment. Same with driver airbag, then passenger airbag and curtain airbags.

Expect many of these other new safety features to become standard as time goes on also.

I don't have automatic braking on my car and don't think I'd want it. I do have adaptive cruise but rarely use it unless I'm on open road. Don't want to rely on it to slow car down if one gets in front of me. Plus when changing lanes to a lane with no cars it accelerates harder than necessary to get to set speed, IMO.

Do have collision warning though. Has gone off a couple of times, mostly when doing 60-65 on highway and vehicle makes U turn in front of me across 3 lanes. Maybe gone off 3 times in the almost year I have had the car.
 
Even 20 years ago, I bought my 99 Olds Alero with my new college grad discount.  It was the first car I'd owned with traction control.  Leaving my house, I have to take a loop around in order to cross the median and go the other direction.  That pavement used to be quite uneven.  The car's traction control would pick it as a skid and reduce my engine power.  That intersection required one to 'get down on it' when pulling out.  From that point on I'd disable it before I had to get down on it  so I'd have all my ponies available to me.
 
Greg,

did your Alero have a "traction control switch"? I didn't know GM ever equipped the 4T40e nor 4T45e transaxles with one. They had a unique feature not found on the 4T60 and 4T65's though. Selecting 2nd, or low rather than drive on the shift lever actually started the car from a stop in second gear for better traction.
 
I just saw a report by AAA today on the noon news that finds drivers of new cars with these computer devices for lane control, automatic braking and touch screens have a greater incidence of serious accidents due to being either distracted or just plain non attentive to the task at hand, DRIVING. They interviewed drivers that had witnessed drivers of cars with these devices actually asleep at the wheel!

Technology needs to be used in a responsible way and relying on an onboard computer to keep you safe without paying attention is a recipe for disaster.

I’m all for change and technology if it makes sense, and really makes life better. But change and technology just for the sake of proving that something can be automated isn’t always to our best advantage.

Eddie
 
Eddie

It didn't take me long to realize that having those features actually promotes lazy/distracted driving. I even turned on the adaptive cruise and lane follow and pulled out my phone just to demonstrate how easy it is to lose track of what's happening on the road. I also found myself losing my rhythm driving in traffic on the expressway when using the ACC cuz not only am I trying to maneuver around others but I'm fighting with the cars will as well. In Chicago you have to be very alert, on the ball, and assertive when driving on the expressways. 

 

From now on I'm gonna go back to driving myself, and save the adaptive cruise control for when traffic is at a mundane crawl. I could see the features being more useful for LA Freeway traffic. 
 
All this technology

 

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: 14pt;">We use some of this technology when we drive but the one thing I think many of us would agree on is that these tools should be an assist only and not left to their own devices (no pun intended).  I have never experienced a situation where the car took over and ignored what I was doing.  Instead when I've tried to avoid someone or something like that the car does what I want it to do.   </span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: 14pt;">I still can't take my hands off the wheel though.  I just can't do it.  I tried on an open highway one day just to see what it was like and it was more stressful to me wondering if something would blip and send me careening me off the road.  I really don't know how the lane assist works.  The steering wheel moved to keep me in that lane but the road I was on had no line on the right hand side of the road so I have no clue how it does it.  It's just scary to me.  I've been driving for 50 years with my hands on the wheel.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: 14pt;">I like the adaptive cruise control though and in my car when you switch lanes to an open lane mine doesn't gun, it slowly increases speed.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: 14pt;">I find it hard to believe that in some cars you can't turn these features off but I guess some might be made that way.  Just remember, if you use them, use them responsibly.</span>

[this post was last edited: 12/17/2019-17:03]
 
In the Outback it will give a loud beep and a red warning pops up on the driver info display when the lane follow loses the lane... If it loses it in the middle of a curve you will have to grab the wheel right away. There is a reason why they want you to keep your hands on the wheel even when using it... 
 
Add me to the list of people leery of some of the new features.

 

That story above about the battle with a car's safety systems while trying to avoid a collision made me wonder something. What happens if something really goes wrong in some lane feature or auto speed feature, and actively causes a collision? It seems almost inevitable--if it hasn't happened already. The computer gets drunk on its own power, say, and decides that that the neighboring lane, holding a really big semi, is where the car is supposed to be... (And, of course, the driver of this car with all these features will be held at fault, and will be the one to suffer with higher insurance premiums. Of course, he or she could sue the car maker--but whether that's successful is another question.)

 

Past this, I'm cheap, and I hate features because they add to the purchase price. And it's just one more thing to break and need repair. And I suspect that it also means a more limited service life for the car. When all that stuff starts breaking, it won't be financially viable to keep the car running. Some brands could make a car once that would run 20 years and well over 200K miles and still be going strong. That same brand's car of today probably won't do that.
 
Interestingly, I know someone who recently bought a new car. His old car was still running fine, but he was sold on the idea of new safety features. It will be interesting to learn in a few months, once the novelty has worn off, if he still finds those features made it worth buying this new car.

 

 
 
I'm also cynical about those no-key systems. Yet another thing to break. And also I've heard the horror stories of how much it costs to replace a lost key unit.

 

I also remember one horror story on a video talking about the Prius which mentioned one real problem with electronic keys and auto start/stop features. (The link leads to this specific comment only runs a minute or two telling the story)

 
I am not sorry in posting this, but all this technology, Alexa, and all the Horse Puckey that goes along with this nonsense is ruining younger generation's Brains and reflexes. Can you imagine what driving school is like with back up screens and sensors ? This to me is total crap. I had to take my driver's test on a Three speed on a column as you would never know when you had to drive standard.
Yes, times have changed but it is a hoot when I take my truck for service and a young man gets behind the wheel, then get out, and I watch another tech drive my truck in as hardly anyone younger knows how to drive a standard transmission. And use hand signals out of the windows for right, left and stopping. Yeah, Yeah, that was 50 years ago... but still... it relates to technology failing.

I am 64 and can't believe what all this unnecessary crap is doing to the world. Yes, some of this is great. But when it comes to dumbing down daily chores and sharpening , honing, and just plain keeping your memory sharp, this really grinds my gears.

Maybe some of you like this where you can talk to a cylinder and request your wishes etc. But I truly believe they are recording your personal information and other things.

If you cannot remember things in your brain or without writing them on a pad, then I believe it will soften you're other senses.

What will happen when Alexa dies ??? Or the internet craps out ? What will the younger people do when they depend on their reminders after endless hours of video games ?

Sorry this should be an another thread I suppose

I have a smart phone and use it with reminders, but I will also use my senses that I had before this technology.
 
Re: reply#51

Yes, yes, yes and yes Eddie! Your comments could have come straight out of my mouth. I’m a bit older than you, I’ll be 69 in Feb. When I got my DL 52 years ago I had to demonstrate hand and arm signals, and my parents trained me to use them in heavy traffic, as to be sure that other drivers knew what you were about to do, without question. I haven’t used hand and arm turn signals for a few years, but I still will roll down the window if I’m stuck in stop and go traffic and use the hand signal for stop, I don’t want to get rear ended.

And when I learned to drive, just like you, we all learned to drive stick, because you never knew when you’d have to drive a standard trans. car. And now that I’m older, and have a perpetually stiff neck, I could appreciate a backup camera, but no one should always depend upon this.

I’m totally with you that with all this automation we are creating a generation that is losing critical brain and manual coordination skills. I’m an example even in my advanced years of losing some of these skills. Since I so seldom really sit down and write in longhand, the once nice cursive handwriting I used to have has turned into a scrawl. And I’ve never been a very good speller in the first place, I used to always have a dictionary at hand, now with auto spell check I’ve become lazy. But I do love the convenience of writing on a device, much faster and easier. So even this old dude succumbs to some modern technology.

But I still believe strongly that its very important to be able to use my hand and brain knowledge and skills as much as possible. Being too dependent on tech makes you lose vital skills, that you may need some day if and when tech isn’t available for whatever reason. And I defiantly don’t want or need an Alexa in my life. Just one more avenue for my personal information to be possibly used in a way that I may not want. I can dial the phone, make a list, change the channel or whatever just fine on my own.

Use it or lose it.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 12/17/2019-18:37]
 
"hacking" hazards too

apparently,some recent cars can have their control systems hacked and be operated remotely...I think Jeep had a model that could be remotely driven...Also household"security"/child survaillence cameras can be hacked and operated remotely...
 
I finally had to break down and buy a new car last month:  2016 BMW 328i with 25K miles on it.  It, too, has that annoying feature that shuts the engine off when idling more than 20 seconds or so, but thankfully has a “sport” driving feature that I can switch over so I don’t have to deal with it.  Of course it has a huge computer screen on the dash and I have yet to figure out what it all does and really don’t care.  It’s a fun car to drive, but thank God I still have my trusty 2003 Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner truck that is much simpler to operate!
 
Mike, my Alero had a "traction off" button on the console behind the gear shift by the parking brake (little oval button)

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It's for real happening

Tesla's can park themselves and at the push of a button when you come out of building, the car will return to the pick you up.

 

This in addition to literally driving the car without need of a human.

 

I'm all for it and until the time comes I get one, I'm going to keep things simple with my affordable, used, manual nissan.

 

I'm not even sure what color my dash lights are.  I don't usually drive at night.



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