The end of the large capacity T.L.?????

[pulsatron]

Folks,
I wonder if with large scale water restrictions and government regulations on water usage (here in Oz anyway),do you think we may within a few years see large capacity T.L.'s phased out of existence?.The reason I pose this question is looking through various appliance retailer catalogues recently there are quite a few F.L.'s advertised but it seems just a few T.L.'s.
Also Sydney Water (the Government body in charge of our water here in Sydney) are offering a $150.00 rebate to anyone aho buys a washer with either a 4 or 5 star water efficieny rating.
Most F.L.'s do fall in this category however there 2-3 T.L.'s which also have the same rating but the rebate does not seem to apply to them.
There are some new regulations coming into force on July 1 this year as well in which washers have to pass minimum rinsing standards which will be set by some government body, well if washers do not pass is one to assume they will not be allowed to be sold here.
It just seems to me as though the authorities here are slowly trying to force people to have F.L.'S and I don't know how most Australians would react to that as large capacity T.L.'s are still pretty much the norm here.3
Just a thought.
Cheers.
Steve.

 

[toggleswitch]

Same seems to be happening here.

Mannies were worried that we'd not accept F/L-ers since we were used to huge capacities and ease-of-loading. Ooh, and quick cycle/programme times.

But the new front-loaders with larger capacities and port-holes seem to be catching-on very well.

Perhaps one of the saving graces here is that our installations seem to allow some flexibilty in (exterior) cabinet sizes which have not yet "standardized" for the NEW generation of larger front-loaders.

Our washers were basically (in inches) 27 x 27 x 36 + a back-splash. The new ones are either wider or deeper; NOT both however to be able to get them through a "std" 30-inch interior door (29" +/- clearance).

It is an interesting time for washers. Of course addign to the mix is that we have opened the doors to foreign manufacturers, and electronic contorls are now the norm, changing the customary cycles/programmes radically.

Thank you for yoru thoughts!

 

[Cybrvanr]

FL washers seem to be favored by the manufacturers as well becasue they can command higher prophit margins. Buyers don't tend to balk at the higher price premiums of the FL designs because they appear to be modern and high-tech. Sort of operates on the same basis as why automobile companies like selling SUV's. Ford can charge $30,000 for an Explorer, or they can charge $15,000 for a Ranger pickup...both vehicles being built on the same chassis, and probably don't cost a significanly different amount to actually build. I imagine the manufacturing costs of FL washers is not too significantly higher than that of TL designs, but the prophit margins are much higher. Obviously, manufacturers are going to push the products that they can make the most money with.

Like Toggleswitch has mentioned though, we have opened the door for foreign manufacturers. This is a trying time overall for the American appliance business, which has lacked innovaton and progress for several years. and has gotten away with cheapening products and reducing quality for quite some time....as buyers don't want to pay premium prices for old, tired designs. This has been the only real way they have made money. I would like to see the infux of foreign competition spark the same innovation and engineering that took place in the 50's. Hopefully, appliance manufacturers learned from the mistakes the automotive industry made 30 years ago when they were in the same position, but I don't think they have, especially as we have watched the list of manufacturers dwindle either through buyouts or simply going under. Be it TL, or FL, they need to get the engineering departments back in gear and come up with some selling designs, basically doing something more than just replacing metal with plastic, and thinning the sheetmetal.

The drawback to the whole turnover of the industry that we are watching is that we will probably not see the parts and repair business as ludcrative has it previously has been. I know right now, many shops still sell parts for appliances that are many many years old. This is due to the fact they have changed relatively little over the past 50 years or so, and parts for newer machines will fit the older ones too.

In the electronics business, this used to be held true as well. Now, with innovation running at lightening speed, repairing electronics simply does not happen becasue it's hard to keep a parts inventory for equipment that changes on a 6-month basis, and is vastly different from manufacturer to manufacturer. Not to mention the fact that manufacturers discontinue parts after only a few years. Unfortunatley, I see the white-goods business heading in the same way.

 

[toggleswitch]

I agree.

Top-loaders that commanded $400 seem to be $275-ish now.

 

[spinout]

The attitude toward appliance purchases seems to have shifted towards that of commodities, and not so much as a major "white" purchase--expected to last a lifetime. I also think that the industry has created a perceived obsolecense for older appliances, and that that mentality has been fostered by peoples' experience with the PC/electronics industry--as well as general ignorance.

 

[launderess]

One must remember "major appliances" then cost major money. Those whom could not afford cash either went without or bought on credit. Today with credit being rather easy to come by, many more can afford major appliances. The fact that so many of these appliances are built/designed so poorly that most will be in the knackers yard long before some people finish paying them off.

Also, sadly appliance makers of all sizes, small and large came to realise they can make more money selling lots of medium to poor quality appliances than only a few top quality ones. It never ceases to amaze how many vintage washers, mixers, dryers, etc are all happily doing their jobs, years, in cases decades after being built, while their new cousins seem barely able to last three or so years.

As for large capacity top loaders, if a way can be found to do more with less water, they should survive. Those large GE Filter Flow design with that drank water, won't see the light of day again anytime soon. The "Jet Cone" and "Rollermatic" washers with their fast final spin speeds would probably meet today's energy standards with some tweaks in design. Problem with the Jet Cone washers though was they needed full loads to work properly, IIRC.

Long spray rinses, and more than one deep rinse design top loaders won't be making a comeback anytime soon either.

L.

 

[brettsomers]

can anyone name a current-model front-loader built with the same quality and engineering as a Maytag center-dial? for home use?

 

[sudsmaster]

The silver lining in all this move to water efficient HE washers, is, that people will be getting rid of their old top loaders. So we can sometimes pick up vintage washers free, or for a song. The same goes for dishwashers, where the energy/water savings is no where near as signficant as it can be for a clothes washer, but people are still upgrading. Perhaps some of this is due to rebates from water and/or energy companies.

 

[frigilux]

My local Frigidaire/Maytag dealer told me every FL'er he's sold lately has been purchased with a pedestal. One reason people didn't like FL'ers was the 'bend-over' factor. Pedestals seem to have neutralized that issue a bit. My next FL pair will be on pedestals, that's for sure...

 

[toggleswitch]

One reason people didn't like FL'ers was the *bend-o

Actually, in my book, that is when you get rid of a relationship; when the bend-over factor exceeds the smile (good-times) factor.

 

[arrrooohhh]

Hi Pulsatron.

Yes there are more front loaders on the floor than ever before but I dont think that the large capacity top loader is dead yet. Just rememember that Fisher and Paykel account for nearly 30% of all new washing machines sold and they only recently itroduced two front loaders that while very nice looking, are really just a "me too" effort for Fisher and Paykel to get a slice of that pie.

Also Simpson and Westinghouse have recently introduced enourmous 9.5KG toploaders and gone to all the trouble of developing a direct drive DC motor similar to Fisher and Paykel so I would assume the large toploader is not dead yet.

Fisher and Paykel, Simpson and Westinghouse are the only real competition for that size washer, and perform quite well without using an exorbidant amount of water like the impeller machines do. Maytags are for the high end market and those awful NEC's and LG's dont do as well in that size point I dont think.