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I feel like I am more in control that way. Have had a lot of trouble-prone automatics in the past. A friend recently swore off all automatics. Another junked a car because the CVT automatic was

FWIW, I drive the New Jersey Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway about 40 miles each way to work and back every day, and sometimes I get stuck in traffic. It stinks, but I just deal. Its worth it for the fun I have when I reach the open road.

I don't double clutch, because its 2009 and I have a relatively modern transmission. If its broken enough for me to need to resort to techniques needed for a car built in 1930, or used by professional truck drivers, I probably shouldn't be driving it through the barren wastes of the Meadowlands or in New Jersey traffic.

I'm relatively adept at driving with a coffee, adjusting the radio and so on. When you live in your car for 2 hours a day, you can get pretty good. Biege interiors are also good at hiding coffee stains. :-)
 
I feel like I am more in control...

Mistereric, you and a friend of mine would get along well. He had automatics since he started driving, then acquired a manual. I taught him how to drive a stick. Even since then, it's stickshifts only for him, for the "in control" reason you cite.

And he does mostly CITY driving! Clutchwork in traffic doesn't bother him the slightest.

John
 
1970-1995 Manual Transmission

Learned how working for City of Detroit driving a 66 Suburban with a floor-shift 4-speed. Last manual transmission I had was 1989 VW Vanagon. Was seeing a woman who could not drive it, so I bought a 1995 Ford Windstar with auto trans. Have bought these minivan types ever since, only available with automatic transmission. Currently: 2005 Honda Odyssey.
 
Launderess---Don't base your car-buying decision on wanting to learn to drive a stick in order to rent a car in Europe/UK.

My suggestion: Rent a car with a stick for a couple of days when there is an advertised discount weekend or something. Once you buy a stick, you're stuck.
 
Well Unless One Plans To Move House For

Either France, or the UK, automatic will do just nicely for now, thank you.

Driving in NYC is maddening enough without the extra burden of clutches and shifting gears. Talking about "defensive driving". One has to be not only alert to one's own actions,but constantly guessing what the idiot taxicab or other driver is going to do, and be prepared to act accordingly. Like most I tend to "drive with my brake" in the city, and even on the local expressways, that is unless traffic is light.

Driving here is not very forgiving, and those not used to it can be eaten alive by the natives. Take too long to parallel park, and or do it in such away to block traffic, you'll hear about it. If you pull away too far from the spot to get a running start again, there is a good chance someone will slip right into that berth. You can get out and state your case, but that can lead to some nasty fights.
 
Launderess,

Truthfully, if you're looking for a new car these days and have no significant preference for a manual, you're much better off with the automatic for one reason: most cars on a dealer's lot will be automatic, and right now it's a big buyer's market for cars. You'll almost always get a better deal on a car already on a dealer's lot, since it's costing him money for the car to sit there. So decide on what models you like, be a tiny bit flexible on equipment and color, and start searching the net to see what dealers have those cars within a reasonable distance. Either call them up or e-mail them and after awhile you'll find a good deal. Given that you live in NYC and probably won't be putting a lot of miles on it, pay a lot of attention to the maximum warranty time limit. You'll probably time it out rather than mile it out, so search for one with a long time period. Let us know what you get!
 
If you can't shift it, you shouldn't be driving it!

Manual, definately!!

Also, I don't understand why so many driving programs teach with an automatic. Anybody can drive an automatic! The reverse doesn't necessarily apply!
 
Three on the tree or three by the knee

Column or floor shift was the way I learned in the sixties. I did have "hydra-matic" as I outgrew my teens, though. My first VW in the seventies was a 4-speed floor shift. After sitting in far too many hours of New Jersey beep-and-creep I traded up to automatic and never looked back.

Nothing beats a stickshift when you're dealing with major snow, I must say.
 
Column or floor?

I have never had the opportunity to drive a manual that shifted on the column. I think it would be a good idea, remembering how the middle passenger in my old pickup truck was always miserable in 2nd and 4th gears. Was a column shift manual always a 3 on the tree, or were there examples with more speeds? When did the column shifted manual disappear?

I think someone should make license plate frames that say something along the lines of "Caution: Stick Shift in use, may roll back on hills and annoying tailgaters."

FWIW, being a devoted manual driver, I have noticed that many people like to park themselves right off my rear bumper at intersections on hills. I am good enough to not roll back into them but it is still very annoying. So many people just don't leave any space to speak of between cars (likely the same people who eat, apply makeup, talk on the phone, and tune the radio simultaneously while driving). Professional drivers, like semi-drivers, are often some of the best, most defensive, and most courteous drivers on the road, it's just that their vehicles are so big that the bad ones can be very dangerous.

You know what really grinds my gears?
Dave
 
"Also, I don't understand why so many driving programs teach with an automatic. Anybody can drive an automatic! The reverse doesn't necessarily apply!"

In a way, it might be better starting people off with an automatic--it reduces the amount of stuff that has to be learned at once. But I think once the basics are learned, it wouldn't be a bad idea for people to learn at least the basics of a manual. One might prefer automatics, but someday be in a situation where it's necessary to drive a manual.

In fact, when I had driver's training, they had one car with a manual transmission. I asked for one session with that, just to learn the basics, "just in case."
 
Ok...

In the past 22 years I think I have driven just about every type of transmission there is and variations on a theme too.

- 4,5 and 6 spd manuals
- 2,3,4,5 and 6 speed automatics
- 2 and 3 speed semi-automatic with T-bar style change(hondamatic)
- 3 speed semi-automatic with manual style change (Citroen C-Matic)
- 6 speed DSG (VW Golf and Skoda Octavia Diesel)

The cars have ranged in age from 1960's Mini to a new Skoda and my current cars are 1969 Morris 1100 'S' automatic (think Austin America [US] or Morris 1100 MK1 with 1275cc engine [Europeans]) and a Holden Viva auto wagon.

The Morris is a 4spd (yep...4spd!) full auto with full manual control. The Holden a 'normal' 4spd auto.

To be honest, if you are driving in city traffic for the majority of the time (say over 70%), you can't beat a good automatic. Anything from any Japanese manufacturer will be smooth, economical and generally more reliable than anything else. The Koreans run a very close second.

I have heard some disaster stories about European automatics that make my hair curl. Failure at less than 60000miles being one of them from all brands from Alfa to Volvo. Convienient that this is outside the warranty period.

If you are buying a European car, go the manual unless it is German/Czech or possibly Swedish. Anything else, go automatic especially if most of the driving is in town.
 
Auto or man?

I currently drive a V8 automatic. I had 3 toyota trucks that were 5sp man. They were just OK. I didnt mind driving in the traffic but my biggest gripe was with the engine not the trans. Now being in the city of Chicago and doing field service, im kinda glad my company van is an auto. Being a big boy i quickly got out of the toyotas and back into full size domestics were auto was either not an option or only on the BOL models. The only reason i would reconsider a manual would be in some type of zippy sporty car, or another motorcycle. The motorcycle may be on the 09' "things to consider" list...lol
 
My '67 Chevy van has a three on the tree manual transmission. My only complaint is that it needs a fourth gear.

Even so, I can get 18 mpg if it keep the speed down and do mostly highway cruising (even better mileage for a long road trip). A friend tells me he had the same van but with a 2 speed automatic - it got about 8 mpg, he said.

My D50 pickup has a nice five speed manual. The '50 plymouth also has a three on the tree. Needs an overdrive as well, and these cars always seem to have a jerky clutch.

I think for four or more speed manual you pretty much have to go to a floor shifter. The three on a tree with overdrive manuals have a switch to allow overdrive to engage - it's dependent upon the road speed as well.
 
"Was a column shift manual always a 3 on the tree, or were there examples with more speeds?"

There were 4 speed column shift vehicles (I think most were trucks), but they're VERY rare to come by!

"When did the column shifted manual disappear?"

I had a buddy who drove a mid 80's chevy truck with 3 on a tree. I kept teasing him that he had the last one ever produced on the planet.

I occasionally drive a 73 Dodge D100 truck with 3-on-a-tree and there's just way too much of of a ratio gap between 2nd and 3rd gear. On hills, it's a decision of revving the shit out of the motor in 2nd or lugging the hell out of the motor in 3rd. Otherwise, it drives nicely on the freeway

"I think someone should make license plate frames that say something along the lines of "Caution: Stick Shift in use, may roll back on hills and annoying tailgaters."

Great idea!! I got stuck at a stop light on the tallest hill in San Francisco 10 years ago and some idiot was on my bumper. It was a balancing act of burning the clutch up as little as possible while lugging the motor just enough to crest the hill.

"I have heard some disaster stories about European automatics that make my hair curl. Failure at less than 60000miles being one of them from all brands from Alfa to Volvo. Convenient that this is outside the warranty period."

Try auto trans failure at 1,850 miles. My buddy has been a tech at Mercedes Benz for 5 years now and the horror stories of auto transmission issues is ridiculous. Actually, problems with ALL of their vehicles are preposterous!! He refers to them as "Expensive pieces of shit with fantastic job security."
 
Volvo transmissions.

My 1987 240GL has the AW70 3 speed + overdrive automatic with about 150,000 miles on it. It was the only transmission available on 240GL models 1987 and later. I flush the transmission fluid every few years and it is still going strong. The shifts are smooth and predictable and the driving characteristics have not changed over the 10 years I have had the car. I would prefer a manual, but for an auto, this one is pretty good. I can also eek out 30mpg if I am very very careful.

Volvo never had much money for R&D so they would keep antiquated technology going for many many years. In the late 1950s they came out with the M40 4 speed manual transmission. Later, when they made a high performance car (The Amazon GT) they decided they needed another gear, but they didn't have enough R&D resources to design a new transmission. Their solution was a bolt-on overdrive unit! M40 transmissions so equipped were designated M41, and were fitted to Volvos sold in the US through 1975. In 1976, they slightly redesigned their engines and slanted them. To accommodate the slant, the transmissions were also slightly modified. M40 became M45 (I am uncertain whether M45s were ever shipped to the US) and the M41 became the M46. The M46 was used in US spec 240s through 1986 and 740s through 1992.

The Overdrive on these transmissions is activated by flipping a switch or pushing a button, usually located on top of the shift knob. The overdrive unit is electronically activated and hydraulically engaged. These transmissions are known for being quite reliable. The most likely part to fail is the wiring between the overdrive solenoid and the button due to running the wire up the moving stick.

Some Volvo enthusiasts have installed M41 or M46 transmissions in cars equipped with only the 4 speed. To activate the overdrive, all they need to install is a switch. In Europe the high-beams were always activated via a tug on the turn signal stalk. In the US, they were required to use a floor switch (I think into the mid 1970s). In the US, some people have wired up the unused turn signal highbeam switch to activate the overdrive. Pretty cleaver!

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread,
Dave
 
Column Shifts . . .

Column shifts came out in the thirties, and were regarded as more modern than floor shifts. Because most cars were front-engine and rear wheel drive, a floor shift was usually more precise as the column shift had a longer linkage. This gave column shifts a bad reputation, although some could be quite good. For cars with bench front seats the column shifts allowed a center passenger to have greater comfort.

American cars usually had three speed transmissions, but European cars commonly had four speeds. On a column shift they generally used an “H” pattern with first up and toward the driver, second straight down, third up and toward the windshield, and fourth down from that. Some lengthier column shifts appeared on the Tatra 603 and the Lancia Flaminia sedan. Both those cars use rear mounted transaxles so the linkage goes from the column to shift rods in the central tunnel and all the way to the rear of the car. There were also some five-speed column shifts: Citroen introduced one in ’71 for the D series cars as an upgrade from the standard four speed. Because the mechanical layout of the D puts the transaxle at the front of the car, with the engine behind it, it made sense to use a column shift for all models because the rod and cable for the linkage can run beside the engine and down to the transaxle. I grew up driving the four-speed models and can vouch that the column linkage works just fine, better in fact than some floor linkages.

The DS was also available with a semi-automatic column shift known as BVH (Boite Vitesse Hydraulique) or Citromatic. With this, the shift lever exits through the top of the steering column rather than the side as with the manual gearbox, and it also actuates the starter to ensure the car is started in neutral. The lever is not connected to the gearbox, but to a block of hydraulic control valves. There is no clutch pedal, as this too is operated by high-pressure hydraulics via a belt driven centrifugal regulator. There is also a hydraulic slave cylinder on the carburetor connected to the front brakes to control a two-speed idle function. The gearbox itself is basically identical to the manual version aside from using a group of hydraulic slave cylinders to move the shift forks in and out of gear.

Citromatic is cool to drive because it’s almost as easy as an automatic, but gives nearly the control of a manual. It will not shift for itself, but there is almost no effort since the engine driven central hydraulic system provides 2000 -2400 psi of pressure at all times. The car will creep like an automatic in first or reverse when the brake pedal is released and the carburetor goes to high speed idle because the clutch gradually engages depending on engine speed. To shift gears, one simply lifts up on the accelerator like a manual trans and moves the lever to the desired gear. Instantly the system connects the clutch slave to high pressure, thus disengaging the clutch, dumps the pressure from the gear you’re in back to the fluid return system, connects the slave cylinder of the desired gear to high pressure, and then disconnects the clutch cylinder from high pressure. Voila!, you’ve changed gear and can reapply the accelerator. It all happens faster than a normal manual shift. It was even used on Citroen’s rally cars from the late ‘50s through the ‘70s. Some rally drivers preferred the manual, but others were quicker with Citromatic as it shifted faster and allowed left foot braking due to the automatic clutch. A few years ago some car makers came out with modern versions of this system using electronic control, including Ferrari and BMW. It really makes sense, but quite frankly I like the original concept without any electronics to crap out – there is a ’72 DS21 here in LA with around 500,000 miles on it and it still shifts fine. Unfortunately Citroen abandoned it in ’75 in favor of torque converter automatics, which undoubtedly are cheaper if IMO less pleasant to drive and generally less reliable. Here’s a link to an owner running through the gears on his DS23. He starts out in first, then goes through second and third to fourth, downshifts to third and then back to fourth, all using just fingertips on the lever:

 
Hi Dave,

Those 80's Volvo Auto is actually made by Toyota and was Toyota's first Overdrive equipped Auto. It appeared in the late 70's early 80's in the Toyota Cressida and Crowns.

Michaels Mum still has an 85 cressida (Same Gearbox as yours) with an original 75K Km on the clock and it has a great power to weight ration.and it goes like a rocket.

We've got the Aussie car mags from 85 when they bought the cressida and it covers it off in some detail.
 
My folks

...had a 1990 Volvo 240GL sedan that had that (or a version of) gearbox in it.

Nathan is correct that it is basically the same box supplied to Toyota for the Cressida and Crown that we received here from 1981, was made by Asian Warner and supplied to various manufacturers but predominately Toyota and Volvo for the 240, 260, 740 and 760 ranges of cars.

My parents sold their Volvo in 2003 with nearly 300,000klm on it and it had never had a spanner anywhere near the automatic or engine in general. It was a very undertaxed gearbox when behind the Volvo 2.3ltr engine and its performance could not be faulted.

Sadly, those days are now gone. My brother in law is a mechanic and their workshop is nextdoor to an automatic transmission shop. A constant stream of 'not that old' european and Australian cars keeps them in business.
 
My folks

...had a 1990 Volvo 240GL sedan that had that (or a version of) gearbox in it.

Nathan is correct that it is basically the same box supplied to Toyota for the Cressida and Crown that we received here from 1981, was made by Asian Warner and supplied to various manufacturers but predominately Toyota and Volvo for the 240, 260, 740 and 760 ranges of cars.

My parents sold their Volvo in 2003 with nearly 300,000klm on it and it had never had a spanner anywhere near the automatic or engine in general. It was a very undertaxed gearbox when behind the Volvo 2.3ltr engine and its performance could not be faulted.

Sadly, those days are now gone. My brother in law is a mechanic and their workshop is nextdoor to an automatic transmission shop. A constant stream of 'not that old' european and Australian cars keeps them in business.
 

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