westingman123
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2009
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Oh. My. Gawd.
SCORE!
Keith
SCORE!
Keith
The rebirth of a 1956 Whirlpool Imperial Laundry Pair
- Thread starter appliguy
- Start date
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toploader55
Well-known member
Beautiful Set Paul.
I remember visiting some friends of the family around 1966 in Lake Placid and she had almost the identical set. It was the same styling which is really cool. They also had a KD12 in the kitchen.
Good Luck with you New Pair. Eddie
I remember visiting some friends of the family around 1966 in Lake Placid and she had almost the identical set. It was the same styling which is really cool. They also had a KD12 in the kitchen.
Good Luck with you New Pair. Eddie
toggleswitch
Well-known member
LOL How wonderful to rebuild!
Thanks for the shout-out! *BLUSH*
Thanks for the shout-out! *BLUSH*
1956 WHIRLPOOL IMPERIAL SUPREME REBUILDING
Mark you are quite correct about putting the top bearing down farther and installing two top seals. I normally always do this but in the earlier machines the center post was much heavier and the area that the bearings go is bored only deep enough to allow the bearings to be installed at the original depth.
These machines were low use machines, the type of bearing wear they had will happen in only a year or so after the top seal wears out and moisture gets in. This washer and dryer sat in my storage for more than twenty years after being rescued by Chuck [ Laundromat ]. Before that they had been moved out to the pool house of a large residence outside of Baltimore Maryland where they probably didn't get much use. It looked like the only repair they had ever had was a new belt and water pump before we attacked them.
Even though I have done major rebuilding on hundreds of WP built BD washers over the last 30+ years I could count on one hand the number that were done on pre 1956 machines. 1950s automatic washers of any brand were just not that durable and very few lasted past the end of the 1960s. This was in-spite of the fact that many worked well, were very expensive and people often took very good care of them. In-spite of much cheaper repair costs most consumers would not have these major repairs done. I used to figure that a BD WP or KM would only last 8-12 years of family use before the main bearings looked like these did, this was before WP started putting in two top seals in 1978.
I also think that the quality of the seals and plating on the spin tube improved over the years and this helped increase the life of the bearings somewhat even before the dual top seals were used. Paul's just completed machine should last at least 20 years of light use.
Mark you are quite correct about putting the top bearing down farther and installing two top seals. I normally always do this but in the earlier machines the center post was much heavier and the area that the bearings go is bored only deep enough to allow the bearings to be installed at the original depth.
These machines were low use machines, the type of bearing wear they had will happen in only a year or so after the top seal wears out and moisture gets in. This washer and dryer sat in my storage for more than twenty years after being rescued by Chuck [ Laundromat ]. Before that they had been moved out to the pool house of a large residence outside of Baltimore Maryland where they probably didn't get much use. It looked like the only repair they had ever had was a new belt and water pump before we attacked them.
Even though I have done major rebuilding on hundreds of WP built BD washers over the last 30+ years I could count on one hand the number that were done on pre 1956 machines. 1950s automatic washers of any brand were just not that durable and very few lasted past the end of the 1960s. This was in-spite of the fact that many worked well, were very expensive and people often took very good care of them. In-spite of much cheaper repair costs most consumers would not have these major repairs done. I used to figure that a BD WP or KM would only last 8-12 years of family use before the main bearings looked like these did, this was before WP started putting in two top seals in 1978.
I also think that the quality of the seals and plating on the spin tube improved over the years and this helped increase the life of the bearings somewhat even before the dual top seals were used. Paul's just completed machine should last at least 20 years of light use.
mickeyd
Well-known member
Hello
Love all the lights, eight of them!--what a blitz, and the giant agitators looking mammoth in the standard tub--the six-finned roto-flex is one of my favorites, and now I understand why John says they won't work in a standard tub.
Loved the arms shots, wishing you had included your handsome mugs shots.
I think someone in the club has this Whirpool signature machine....Rick....yeah, Rick R., I'm pretty sure.
Love all the lights, eight of them!--what a blitz, and the giant agitators looking mammoth in the standard tub--the six-finned roto-flex is one of my favorites, and now I understand why John says they won't work in a standard tub.
Loved the arms shots, wishing you had included your handsome mugs shots.
I think someone in the club has this Whirpool signature machine....Rick....yeah, Rick R., I'm pretty sure.
Uh-oh
So is there anything that can be done to the bearing seal area if one owns a pre 78 machine? What should I look for or does one just wait for it to fail and then rebuild it like this machine?
So is there anything that can be done to the bearing seal area if one owns a pre 78 machine? What should I look for or does one just wait for it to fail and then rebuild it like this machine?
I'm loving the pics
And you're doing a great job, congrats. ComboJohn wa very helpful to me with my 1960 Whirlool, he's knowledgeable and sharing.
It's interesting to see the changes thru the years, mine has a very flat=pan, straight lip tup top, no holes in the topmost edge of the inner tub. Keep posting pics and vids, I almost like yours more than mine!
And you're doing a great job, congrats. ComboJohn wa very helpful to me with my 1960 Whirlool, he's knowledgeable and sharing.
It's interesting to see the changes thru the years, mine has a very flat=pan, straight lip tup top, no holes in the topmost edge of the inner tub. Keep posting pics and vids, I almost like yours more than mine!
RickR has the same set, I never thought I'd see TWO sets!
bendixmark
Well-known member
bearing depth
The double seals and lower bearing depth were introduced on the first deep tub whirlpools around 66-67 and then on the standard washers in 1978 as John said.I have installed bearings to the lower depth on many BD whirlpools that previously had the regular depth without problem,you just have you make sure the centerpost area is clear of crud where the new bearing will go.The thing that makes all the difference is the agitator cap seal.When they went to a splined agitator in 1966 then a flatwasher capseal rather then a ringseal in 1968 this greatly reduced/eliminated bearing failures.You could ad this style to this machine but that would then make it a mongrel.I am a purest when it comes to restorations I like them to be as original as possible.It is true those 50s machines had alot of bearing trouble but keep in mind people were dumping 2 heaping cups of tide in there at a time and also the water level on those machines was way up there compared with later ones which also played a part.( some folks out there will disagree with this but I am used to that.)
The double seals and lower bearing depth were introduced on the first deep tub whirlpools around 66-67 and then on the standard washers in 1978 as John said.I have installed bearings to the lower depth on many BD whirlpools that previously had the regular depth without problem,you just have you make sure the centerpost area is clear of crud where the new bearing will go.The thing that makes all the difference is the agitator cap seal.When they went to a splined agitator in 1966 then a flatwasher capseal rather then a ringseal in 1968 this greatly reduced/eliminated bearing failures.You could ad this style to this machine but that would then make it a mongrel.I am a purest when it comes to restorations I like them to be as original as possible.It is true those 50s machines had alot of bearing trouble but keep in mind people were dumping 2 heaping cups of tide in there at a time and also the water level on those machines was way up there compared with later ones which also played a part.( some folks out there will disagree with this but I am used to that.)
1956 WHIRLPOOL IMPERIAL SUPREME REBUILDING
Mark I never saw dual top seals till around 1974 on the extra big tub washers when they shortened the center post on the extra big tub to the same length as the standard machine. Anyway we will find out this weekend as Gordon [ kenmore-64 ] and I will be tearing into a mint untouched KM 518 that was produced in early 1969. We plan on giving it a good going over along with my 3 speed 1971 LKM super capacity 720 RPM spinning machine. It has suffered a center-post failure and I am going to change out the center post and base-plate. I am disappointed that this happened only 30 years after I rebuilt it. This time I am going to have the center-post and base-plate powder coated.
Pictures to follow.
Mark I never saw dual top seals till around 1974 on the extra big tub washers when they shortened the center post on the extra big tub to the same length as the standard machine. Anyway we will find out this weekend as Gordon [ kenmore-64 ] and I will be tearing into a mint untouched KM 518 that was produced in early 1969. We plan on giving it a good going over along with my 3 speed 1971 LKM super capacity 720 RPM spinning machine. It has suffered a center-post failure and I am going to change out the center post and base-plate. I am disappointed that this happened only 30 years after I rebuilt it. This time I am going to have the center-post and base-plate powder coated.
Pictures to follow.
John and Mark -
I am very curious about these seals for several reasons. Before I go any further, I'll explain that my work experience on these BDs is probably 75% 1978 and newer machines, as that was where the business was when I was so busy with these in the 90s.
It was my understanding that only the short centerpost machines (again 1978 and later) ever got two bearing seals, though it makes sense that the 1974 large cap. re-design got them too as this centerpost is also potentially "under water" in high-filled tubs.
I have always thought that what allowed some of the earlier standard capacity machines to live on long enough to kill their bearings so completely was that the centerpost was tall enough to keep the bearings largely dry even with bad seals and high water levels. It may be time that I adjust my thinking on that.
I have always been prejudiced against the short post, 1978 and later machines because of my experiences with battle worn machines that "spilled their guts" all over the cabinet innards due to so much water contaminating the centerpost and transmission. I have not seen this to that extent in in any pre-1978 machine, but that truly may have just been coincidence or luck of the draw.
I have come across only one machine, post 1978, that truly had worn bearings that came close to approximating bad bearings in older models. I have attributed this to physical forces being far less in these machines because the bearings are much closer together vs. the older arrangement. Spinning slightly off-balance loads puts pressure on the top bearing due to where the tub drive block is located. This pressure increases as leverage on the bearing increases with the length of the spin tube. Maybe I am whacky there, but that is what I always blamed as the primary reason for bearing wear and failure. It does seem perfectly plausible and logical though that seal failure, allowing water into the bearing, would only wear them that much faster.
On the one 1978+ machine that did really need bearings, it was a 1983 WP standard tub machine that was only 9 years old at the time. Its seals had failed very early on, with the entire cabinet, transmission, and even the motor were covered with thick black goop. I had to use engine degreaser to get rid of it off the cabinet. When taken apart, the bearings were worn paper thin, and there was no shinny surface whatsoever on any part of the spin tube that made contact with the bearings. These bearings were so worn thin that we could not get a bearing pullers 'teeth' on them, but we soon found that they had been so heat baked by friction that what was left crumbled out like dried up rubber. I didn't need any tools to get them out of the centerpost!
One last item related to seals - I am looking forward to experimenting on how to get both of those seals out of a spin tube without taking the bearing underneath them along with. I too am a purist, to the nth degree, and my 1986 BD that I bought new has failed seals, but the bearings aren't worn enough, not in my view anyway, to warrant replacement. I'd prefer to go in there, take the seals out, and replace vs. doing half or all of a bearing job needlessly.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to working on the machines this weekend John, but keep an eye on that 518 - I might just tuck it into my carryon luggage when you're not looking!! Where is Hermione Granger when you need her "undetectable extension charm"? (Harry Potter humor).
Gordon
I am very curious about these seals for several reasons. Before I go any further, I'll explain that my work experience on these BDs is probably 75% 1978 and newer machines, as that was where the business was when I was so busy with these in the 90s.
It was my understanding that only the short centerpost machines (again 1978 and later) ever got two bearing seals, though it makes sense that the 1974 large cap. re-design got them too as this centerpost is also potentially "under water" in high-filled tubs.
I have always thought that what allowed some of the earlier standard capacity machines to live on long enough to kill their bearings so completely was that the centerpost was tall enough to keep the bearings largely dry even with bad seals and high water levels. It may be time that I adjust my thinking on that.
I have always been prejudiced against the short post, 1978 and later machines because of my experiences with battle worn machines that "spilled their guts" all over the cabinet innards due to so much water contaminating the centerpost and transmission. I have not seen this to that extent in in any pre-1978 machine, but that truly may have just been coincidence or luck of the draw.
I have come across only one machine, post 1978, that truly had worn bearings that came close to approximating bad bearings in older models. I have attributed this to physical forces being far less in these machines because the bearings are much closer together vs. the older arrangement. Spinning slightly off-balance loads puts pressure on the top bearing due to where the tub drive block is located. This pressure increases as leverage on the bearing increases with the length of the spin tube. Maybe I am whacky there, but that is what I always blamed as the primary reason for bearing wear and failure. It does seem perfectly plausible and logical though that seal failure, allowing water into the bearing, would only wear them that much faster.
On the one 1978+ machine that did really need bearings, it was a 1983 WP standard tub machine that was only 9 years old at the time. Its seals had failed very early on, with the entire cabinet, transmission, and even the motor were covered with thick black goop. I had to use engine degreaser to get rid of it off the cabinet. When taken apart, the bearings were worn paper thin, and there was no shinny surface whatsoever on any part of the spin tube that made contact with the bearings. These bearings were so worn thin that we could not get a bearing pullers 'teeth' on them, but we soon found that they had been so heat baked by friction that what was left crumbled out like dried up rubber. I didn't need any tools to get them out of the centerpost!
One last item related to seals - I am looking forward to experimenting on how to get both of those seals out of a spin tube without taking the bearing underneath them along with. I too am a purist, to the nth degree, and my 1986 BD that I bought new has failed seals, but the bearings aren't worn enough, not in my view anyway, to warrant replacement. I'd prefer to go in there, take the seals out, and replace vs. doing half or all of a bearing job needlessly.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to working on the machines this weekend John, but keep an eye on that 518 - I might just tuck it into my carryon luggage when you're not looking!! Where is Hermione Granger when you need her "undetectable extension charm"? (Harry Potter humor).
Gordon
wp set 1956
my mom had this set when i was young! i rember how the timer snaped whin it moved! it also had suds return an whin solonoid kicked in i would jump then the suds would go into the tub not down the drain. then the neat thing was watching it suck the wash water for the next load!!!! i just remberd the push buttons on the front to open the doors!!!!!
my mom had this set when i was young! i rember how the timer snaped whin it moved! it also had suds return an whin solonoid kicked in i would jump then the suds would go into the tub not down the drain. then the neat thing was watching it suck the wash water for the next load!!!! i just remberd the push buttons on the front to open the doors!!!!!
berings
i think the basket was not on true from the factory. cant be out of balance all the tine
i think the basket was not on true from the factory. cant be out of balance all the tine
wig wag
loved the wig wag loved how the wires moved with it never had a problem with it new machines are junk ben a high end dry cleaner for 27 years and they want the consumer to use these new machines at home? more business for me . the old timers are the best
loved the wig wag loved how the wires moved with it never had a problem with it new machines are junk ben a high end dry cleaner for 27 years and they want the consumer to use these new machines at home? more business for me . the old timers are the best
bendixmark
Well-known member
seal replacement
Replacing just the seals is easy,you simply take a medium size flat bladed screwdriver and drive it between the seal and centerpost and pry it out.I have done this many times as you never do better than the bearings that come with the machine the replacements are thinner.I have always attributed bearing failure to moisture and crud contaminating the lubricating turbine oil in the bearing cavity.The lubrication becomes mud,like a contaminated transmission.When I got my first centerpost bearing installer tool in 1975 it came with a big and small upper mandrel.When I did my first bearing job to a deep tub machine it was a 1968 whirlpool and that had the double seals.
Replacing just the seals is easy,you simply take a medium size flat bladed screwdriver and drive it between the seal and centerpost and pry it out.I have done this many times as you never do better than the bearings that come with the machine the replacements are thinner.I have always attributed bearing failure to moisture and crud contaminating the lubricating turbine oil in the bearing cavity.The lubrication becomes mud,like a contaminated transmission.When I got my first centerpost bearing installer tool in 1975 it came with a big and small upper mandrel.When I did my first bearing job to a deep tub machine it was a 1968 whirlpool and that had the double seals.
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