the stupid and the Maytag jet clean dishwasher part 2

[bpetersxx]

well i loaded the Maytag Jetclean DW wc202 right this time

But

should I pull out the timer knob to power dry so it keeps the hot water hot

The Maytag Jetclean DW wu401 says to push wash and dry so it keeps the hot water hot

Still runs nice and fine

It better as I had to replace the bearing assembly in the pump housing

and that was a chore at that

 

[Chetlaham]

BOL Maytag dishwashers from the early 80s did not heat the water in the mainwash, the heater was for the dry period only. Never liked the concept but it is what it is.

 

[qsd-dan]

You need 140f-160f water temps at the sink tap for these to wash properly. I would shoot for at least 150F.

As stated above, the heating element is triggered during the drying process only on these lower end units when the knob is pulled out.

 

[bpetersxx]

eweaq

here are more pics and a video to come

some are sideways some are not

how do I fix it

also are they good enough for upload

 

[reactor]

detergent

Hi Pete,

Nice machine! The reverse-racks are exemplary cleaners, BUT as other members have stated above, you do need hot water entering the machine for it to do well as it will not heat the water. Do not rely on the temperature setting on your hot water tank, as you have heat losses as the water travels through the house's plumbing.

Use a meat thermometer at your kitchen sink to get the true temperature. I would recommend 140 to 145 deg F entering the machine. Depending on heat loss in your lines, you may have to set your tank to 150 or higher.

Forgive me for saying this, but your off-brand gel detergent will prevent your Maytag, or any dishwasher, from performing to its designed potential.

If you look up dishwasher detergent in Consumer Reports Magazine (your library may have free online access), you can find the ratings of dishwasher detergents. In general, pods/tablets tend to rank the highest, powders in the middle, and gels dead last. Most pods/tabs have scores in the eighties and low nineties. Gels tend to have scores in the forties and fifties. I checked, and your brand was not tested. I would sat it would likely be in the bottom eschelon.

Try Cascade Complete or Finish Ultimate and see if your dishes don't come out much better. Do you have hard water (over about 10-12 grains per gallon if hardness?) If so, it makes it even more desirable to go with a quality detergent.

Enjoy your new machine!!

Barry
[this post was last edited: 4/21/2024-12:42]

 

[combo52]

Basic Maytag, reverse rack, dishwasher

With modern detergents if you can get 130 to 140° out of your kitchen faucet, that’s plenty hot enough, temperatures above that just destroy your plumbing, your water heater and the dishwasher.

Since this dishwasher doesn’t heat the water, make sure the water is hot at the kitchen faucet. When you start the dishwasher, you can use the gel that you bought, but use it only in the pre-wash cup and put a good detergent pod in the Main detergent cup and close the lid.

It’s absolutely amazing that a company that sold a high priced product like this made a machine that doesn’t heat the water, even a bare-bones cheapest whirlpool or GE ever made always heated the water somewhat.

John

 

[peteski50]

Maytag!

I love the reverse rack maytag my friend had one in the 90s in a condo she lived in. It cleaned really well. The water of course was really hot so thats what made it really work. I enjoyed loading it you can get so many things into it. She also had a basic model I think a wu300 from 1982. It certainly was noisy. I dont know if the TOL models were quieter.
Good Luck with the machine!
Peter

 

[reactor]

dishwasher detergent

John, yes I told Pete to take the water temperature at the faucet, lol. The temperatures we are talking about are not going to destroy the dishwasher or the plumbing.

As far as putting a gel in the pre-wash cup, there is generally no reason to do so. A good quality detergent will work perfectly well in the main wash. They are created to do so. It is wasteful to use detergent in the Pre-wash and will only contribute to etching of glassware.

Why shouldn't Maytag have a produced a model that didn't heat the water? There is no reason for someone who had their water heater set appropriately to waste money purchasing a machine with capabilities they don't need. If someone needs water heating, they go up the line and purchase one of their models that will. Maytag is just providing a line of dishwashers with features to meet the consumers' various needs.

 

[tomturbomatic]

When my water heater is set to deliver 140F water, the heat delay in the main wash on my Ultra Clean machine only lasts 4 or 5 minutes to heat the main wash to 145. I did insulate the hot water pipes decades ago so they really hold the heat.

This Maytag is a far cry from the first Maytag Dishwashers with the figure 8 heater and filter that ran the heater in the, what was it, 18 minute main wash and etched glasses terribly.

I use the Palmolive Gel with a little STPP and get great cleaning results as long as the heated wash button is pushed. I might not need it if I let the machine do the two water changes before the main wash because the extra water change would help heat the machine, but the resulting 10 minute prewash with the enzyme detergent and STPP before the main wash really cleans the dishes.

 

[reactor]

detergent

A dishwasher detergent should do the job on it's own without adding chemicals, Tom. Palmolive gel is not a good detergent, why do you buy it and then have to purchase a chemical to add to it to make it do it's job? Unless it's just fun for you to do it that way.

Today's quality detergents do wonders, even without phosphates. Why not just buy a good detergent tab/pod and put it in the main wash dispenser and forget it. Your dishes are no cleaner than anyone else's. When dishes come out sparkling free of food, that can't be improved upon. That's the way mine come out virtually every day by just sticking a Cascade Complete or sometimes a Finish Ultimate, in the main wash dispenser and forgetting about it.

Do you have some peculiar water chemistry or very hard water?

No, just the opposite. Maytag's are very good at NOT etching dishes with their short wash periods. One of the best dishwashers for prevention of etching. Etching is a function of exposure (time,) alkalinity and water hardness. An 18 minute wash time is a flash compared to today's underpowered machines and their excessively long wash periods.[this post was last edited: 4/22/2024-07:22]

 

[combo52]

1980s Maytag reverse rack dishwashers

If you look at the cycle charts for the various models of Maytag, dishwasher available it was ridiculous. There were at least three different cycle sequences for a full cycle on their dishwashers. Maytag made good performance a step up feature that you had to pay extra for which was ridiculous. They did not do this for their washing machines even the basic 106 could wash a load of clothes just as well as an 806.

It was ridiculous not to include water heating in a dishwasher that has a heating element, Maytag did not tell you in the literature that if you don’t have 140° water you shouldn’t buy this dishwasher, nearly half the people in this country do not have control over the hot water temperature in their homes when you’re in condominiums and apartments, etc. It is very dangerous and wasteful of energy to keep your water temperature over 120°F more than half the homes in this country either have children in them or elderly people so it is not a good idea.

Turning your water heater temperature up greatly shortens the life of the water heater and your plumbing the inlet valves the hoses on your washers etc. it’s very easy to see that people that turn their gas water heaters over 140° have much shorter life from them that’s just plain physics.

It always works better to put detergent in both compartments. that’s my big complaint with detergent pods for dishwasher you always need to add some detergent to the prewash cup, it doesn’t matter so much in the pre-wash. You can use an inexpensive gel or powder detergent. Etching is no longer much of a problem with the new formulations I have never had any itching problems with this double detergent sequence. I’ve been doing it for 36 years with my two whirlpool dishwashers. When you start a huge load of extremely dirty dishes, it’s ridiculous not to have a little bit of detergent in there for a surfactant to help start Emulsifying and sequestering the food so it can be pumped down the drain without clogging pipes, etc.

Hi Barry, I just happen to have a little more experience with this than you do having Worked with more than 15,000 customers and their dishwasher problems over the years. I know what works and what doesn’t harm the dishes and the dishwasher and what doesn’t.

John

 

[reactor]

dishwashers

Sorry your ego got hurt, John.

No, there is no reason for Maytag to have not offered a version without water heating. No one is making you, or anyone else, buy it. That was over forty years ago, get over it. If one doesn't need that capability then there is no need to pay for it. It is the consumers' responsibility to select what is right for themselves. Maytag gave them a very nice range of options.

There are many reason for having hot water heaters set for higher than than the 120 degrees now recommended. They are designed for that. Metals and fiberglass are the main components and a twenty degree shift or a thirty degree shift is not going to have a meaningful difference in their longevity, neither material is fatigued at those temperatures. More frequent cycling, with higher temperatures may increase wear, primarily in electric elements, but they are easy to change.

Newer enzymatic detergents do tend to etch less, so? They still etch to a degree and the parameters I listed are the the ones that control the etching process. My comments were not made for the purpose of comparing older with new detergents so your comment is irrelevant. My comment was focused on Tom's misstatement that Maytag Reverse racks etch more than other machines when the reality is the opposite.

If your Whirlpools need a boost, with detergent in the pre-wash cup to get dishes clean, by all means do so. For the rest of us who have dishwashers capable of cleaning with only detergent in the main cup, we enjoy the convenience and savings offered by our more capable machines.

Why would one want to waste resources putting detergent in the pre-wash, when dishes come out clean and virtually spotless, without doing so? There is no logic in that.

People might think you are insecure the way you reiterate your background every time someone disagrees with you.

Take a deep breathe and relax John, people can have a differing opinion than yours. You may find less stress in your life if you utilize intellect to override your emotions.

Pete, I hope you are enjoying your machine! Gives us some pictures of a "Bob Load" one day.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

I ran my Maytag dishwasher on 'light wash' with the water heating option off and the water heater cranked up to 145 for 25 years, and never had a problem with dirty dishes, the plumbing, or the gas-fired tank water heater. The machine was eventually retired due to rusty dish racks.

The extra detergent cup is for the long cycle, which I never used.

I wish I could buy that dishwasher new today!

 

[qsd-dan]

Use of detergent in the prewash cup comes down to water quality and hardness.

When I lived in California, my water could be as hard as 27 gpg depending on the well it was pumped from, literally making it some of the hardest water in the nation. It needed that pre wash cup filled to the brim and then some.

When I moved into a home that came with a water softener, it turned my KDS-18 into a ravaging beast, 4 times that machine it was while using less than half the detergent. I also no longer needed to use Institutional Cascade to get the dishes clean and no longer needed to extend cycling to the extreme I was before.

Basically, it comes down to experimentation. If things are not coming out clean with reasonably dirty dishes, add detergent to the prewash cup. Also, be aware that the detergent designed around these older machines is no longer available. They need as much help as they can get with their short cycles, especially in areas with hard water.

Yes, John, we all know how much you hate Maytag but ALL manufactures had their weak areas or were slow to change in upcoming designs. KitchenAid was one of the last manufactures to include a spray arm for the upper rack. My buddy had a late 80’s/early 90’s Whirlpool dishwasher in the home he bought in 2009 that was a one armed bandit. Show me a Maytag dishwasher from the 80’s or 90’s that had a single wash arm? I’m not an expert with Maytag dishwashers of the 70’s but I’m pretty sure they all had 2 wash arms. My grandmother had a builders grade GE dishwasher from 1989 that came with the home she bought in 2003 which had a single arm and the dishes came out of that thing dirtier than when they went in. That includes heating the water, according to your info.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Reactor, I referenced the first Maytag dishwashers with the figure 8 heating element. Did you read my post closely enough to see that? Do you have enough knowledge of historic Maytag dishwashers to even know about the first machines? I don't care what you think about what detergents I should use and I am not in competition with anyone for clean dishes. You have a nasty, combative attitude.

 

[qsd-dan]

I'm willing to bet the figure 8 Maytag dishwashers would clean very well without etching using todays enzyme based detergents.

Detergents have radically changed since the very alkaline, highly chlorinated ones of yester-year.

 

[reactor]

Maytag

Yes, Tom, I sure did. I saw your your reference to the early Maytag, with the figure 8 heating elements. You will notice my comments were directed at that machine, as evidenceed by my use of the 18 minute figure, which is not that long comparatively. As I stated, a mere flash compared to today's machines. GE and Hotpoints of the day were 30 to 45 minutes (approx.) for the main wash, dependent on cycle selection. Some other brands also had short main wash cycles in the none heated or non-extended cycle mode, which lessed the etching effect but also their cleaning ability. Recall the early Maytags had the number one rating in Consumer Reports.
GE was probably the winner for longest wash times. I don't recall it being a major problem with my mom's early seventies GE Potscrubber, but over time the cheaper glasses did showed etching. Our leaded crystal never did, however.

You can wash your dishes any way you want, Tom. Since you posted it, you should expect comments, lol. It just seems odd to do it your way when you don't have to, and thought it would be interesting for myself and others to share why. I would suggest you don't post a comment if you don't want it to be discussed.[this post was last edited: 4/22/2024-15:36]

 

[tomturbomatic]

There is NOTHING in your reply #9 that references the 18 minute heated wash of the first Maytag dishwashers. You close that post referencing the short washes of today's Maytag dishwashers. So we see that you will lie to get out of any statements you make. The main wash, following the prerinse and before the after rinses, in the first Maytag dishwashers was 18 minutes long and heated, not the entire cycle which is what you obviously inferred since you talk about a 30 to 45 minute main wash which GEs did not have. I cannot think of any dishwasher that had a 30 to 45 main wash with the exception of the Westinghouse dishwashers which had a thermal delay for heating the wash water, which was the first fill, to 140F. Is no one but you allowed to post an idea without getting attacked for it because of your ignorance? Can no one post an opinion or fact about Maytag products that runs counter to your opinion? While the first Maytag dishwashers got very high ratings, the testing period was not long enough to show the etching of glasses and Maytag received a lot of etching complaints about the machines.

I welcome discussions, but my posting was not a challenge to anyone although you certainly seem to have taken it as such. As for your quoting the detergent test results, they are modern detergents tested in modern machines. My dishwashers are all older so they would not perform as well with detergents formulated for the long washes in today's dishwashers with incoming water at 120F.

 

[reactor]

better get glasses

You better get glass Tom, in the last paragraph of post #9, I stated that the 18 minute wash was a flash compared to today's machines, referring back to your statement about the early Maytags.

After that I was talking about my experiences with the Reverse Racks, which are the newer models-- the same as Pete has. That is what the post is about, Pete's machine. Not earlier models.

GE Potscubbers do have a very long main wash periods around 45 minutes in the Potsrubber cycle and I stated "in the main wash" word for word in reply 16. No, Consumer Reports did not test for etching caused by dishwashers. In the past they have tested detergent themselves for etching. My point in mentioning the GE of my family was to reiterate the etching of a near 45 minute main wash period was not that bad. Over twice the time of the early Maytags with only an eighteen minute main wash.

Any time John and I spar a little you have to step into it. Do you want people to think you are nothing but his sycophant? You did exactly as I knew you would today. As I told you last time you did this, you did not disappoint. You didn't today either. I was telling my roomie, after commenting to John, "Watch Tom will step in, he always does." Sure enough you followed the pattern exactly, just as predicted.

Thanks for clarifying on why you use a gel and enhance it. That wasn't so bad now, was it. You could have just said that instead of going into some drivel about not being in competition for clean, whatever that means.

Anyway, we are here to share our experiences and learn from each other. When people continually denigrate others and their ideas, yes, I do sometimes step in and call them out. People get tired of John telling everything he perceives to be wrong with the machine they just obtained. They didn't ask, It would be nice if he could just say "Congratulations" about their newest acquisition and leave it at that, or at least say he is happy for them.... instead of trying to build his ego by being negative and pointing out every flaw he perceives there is. Heaven forbid anyone who says a positive word about a Maytag product. You have seen others numerous comments about this, it is certainly not just me observing this. Positive comments about dishwashers other than his precious Whirlpool really invokes a slew of negativity often exaggerations or outright fabrications.

We are here to share information and learn from each other. That's the purpose of this group. These emotional outbursts, and denigrating others' ideas because someone has a neurosis about a certain brand are disrespectful of our members. Good grief it's only an appliance.

Poor Pete, he shared some information on his nice dishwasher and has to endure all this tempest-in-a-teacup exchange. Hopefully he got wise and didn't read this far. ;o;

If you have read through all this, Pete, I apologize. Your dishwasher is a nice find. I hope you enjoy it. Don't be shy about posting more information on it. We do care.

[this post was last edited: 4/22/2024-21:50]