Now here's a real conversation starter....Betty Furness introduces the new EnergyGuide on The Today Show, 1981.
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The Today Show 1980 - 16mm Film
- Thread starter cadman
- Start date
You can be sure she got in a reference to Westinghouse!
phillymatt53
Well-known member
She was the spokeperson for Westinghouse for decades, and coined that famous line.... You can be SURE of that!You can be sure she got in a reference to Westinghouse!
But that Energy Guide stuff?
Just more Marketing chatter nonsense.
Because utility rates are fluid, and always changing.
So what you think you're saving at a given time, the utility chomps a bigger cost out of your pocket eventually.
My 6 year old AO Smith hot water heater with it's "Energy Guide" also worthless babble, because 6 years ago my water rate was substantially different than today's cost for the same amount of water.
And no, it doesn't even use electricity, the burner is self powered.
It also does not indicate the lifespan of the appliance nor reliability. I'll trade more energy use for longer reliability and longer lifespan.
My 1975 Maytag 806 washer is a pig by today's front loading washer standards (still more efficient than a Speed Queen top loader), but it's still going 50 years later.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Indeed!
Now think about this.....
Your energy-saver appliance cost $500, and says you'd save 100 dollars a year...
And breaks down in 5 years, requiring replacement....
So now, you've got to put out $950 for a new appliance. (inflation)
It's all a mind-numbing "numbers game" that people have been led on to confuse you.
I refuse to get on those merry-go-rounds that a lot of people fall for.
I blame marketing, corporate corruption, and greed for the way things are these days.
Thanks again Cory for this important piece of history.
This was a huge breakthrough when they finally started labeling appliances for the energy they were likely to use, before this manufacturers got away with all kinds of nonsense telling you this that's more efficient.
The interesting thing is that the higher efficiency appliances in this era generally lasted much longer than the ones that burned more energy.
That 17.2 ft.³ Whirlpool refrigerator they featured they had replaced all the fiberglass insulation in the body and foamed the whole thing in that refrigerator was so efficient over the long haul that they lasted so much longer. The compressor didn’t have to work hard. There wasn’t near as much heat underneath. It was a really great refrigerator even the higher efficiency evaporator fan motor and condenser did not run as hot and did not fail nearly as often as the regular models, we sold a lot of those refrigerators and they worked great, I still see some of these as 2nd refs in peoples basements going strong while the power hog frost-free models are pretty much long gone.
The first thing I did when I bought my house in 1977 was installed central air conditioning. I bought the top-of-the-line whirlpool central air conditioner with a 9.6 E ER which today translates to about a 13 seer. I paid $675 for the coil the lines in the outdoor unit and installed it myself. A neighbor of mine across the street had had a gas air-conditioning system which failed and he was replacing the system himself. I suggested I could get him one of these high-efficiency whirlpool’s but he said no that’s too much money. He bought a Tappan system for a little over $500 and installed it himself.
He had to replace that air-conditioning system two more times over the next 30 years that he lived there. Meanwhile, my whirlpool was running silently along. You couldn’t even hear the thing it was so efficient outside and it lasted 42 years probably saving me well more than $1000 in electricity.
Certainly, every case is not the same, but today, the highest efficiency appliances are generally gonna be more reliable than the least efficient ones for the many of the same reasons.
The good news is the energy star program was so effective that virtually all refrigerators are quite efficient today, the same thing with central air-conditioning with the minimum of energy standards. It’s hard to buy one that’s really bad, but there are still better choices in many cases so this is still an important program.
Unfortunately in the US it never covered gas and electric range efficiency and as a result manufactures took advantage of this loophole and ranges bought today [almost without exception ] use more energy than similar models did in 1980.
John L
This was a huge breakthrough when they finally started labeling appliances for the energy they were likely to use, before this manufacturers got away with all kinds of nonsense telling you this that's more efficient.
The interesting thing is that the higher efficiency appliances in this era generally lasted much longer than the ones that burned more energy.
That 17.2 ft.³ Whirlpool refrigerator they featured they had replaced all the fiberglass insulation in the body and foamed the whole thing in that refrigerator was so efficient over the long haul that they lasted so much longer. The compressor didn’t have to work hard. There wasn’t near as much heat underneath. It was a really great refrigerator even the higher efficiency evaporator fan motor and condenser did not run as hot and did not fail nearly as often as the regular models, we sold a lot of those refrigerators and they worked great, I still see some of these as 2nd refs in peoples basements going strong while the power hog frost-free models are pretty much long gone.
The first thing I did when I bought my house in 1977 was installed central air conditioning. I bought the top-of-the-line whirlpool central air conditioner with a 9.6 E ER which today translates to about a 13 seer. I paid $675 for the coil the lines in the outdoor unit and installed it myself. A neighbor of mine across the street had had a gas air-conditioning system which failed and he was replacing the system himself. I suggested I could get him one of these high-efficiency whirlpool’s but he said no that’s too much money. He bought a Tappan system for a little over $500 and installed it himself.
He had to replace that air-conditioning system two more times over the next 30 years that he lived there. Meanwhile, my whirlpool was running silently along. You couldn’t even hear the thing it was so efficient outside and it lasted 42 years probably saving me well more than $1000 in electricity.
Certainly, every case is not the same, but today, the highest efficiency appliances are generally gonna be more reliable than the least efficient ones for the many of the same reasons.
The good news is the energy star program was so effective that virtually all refrigerators are quite efficient today, the same thing with central air-conditioning with the minimum of energy standards. It’s hard to buy one that’s really bad, but there are still better choices in many cases so this is still an important program.
Unfortunately in the US it never covered gas and electric range efficiency and as a result manufactures took advantage of this loophole and ranges bought today [almost without exception ] use more energy than similar models did in 1980.
John L
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vacerator
Well-known member
Matt first off, AO Smith water heaters have been garbage for decades. In 1996, our home warranty put one in. It lasted 5 years. The two kids were living here.
Secondly, appliances made in the 80's were way better than now. The energy savings for refrigerators came from the switch from No Frost to automatic timed defrost. No frost meant the heater was always on. For dishwashers, it was air dry only. BTU's on dryers by Whirlpool were reduced only slightly in compensation for the slightly faster spin r.p.m. of the new direct drive washers.
Secondly, appliances made in the 80's were way better than now. The energy savings for refrigerators came from the switch from No Frost to automatic timed defrost. No frost meant the heater was always on. For dishwashers, it was air dry only. BTU's on dryers by Whirlpool were reduced only slightly in compensation for the slightly faster spin r.p.m. of the new direct drive washers.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
So you had some bad luck with your water heater, it happens.
Just like any appliance that fails prematurely.
But to condemn a product brand with a blanket judgement isn't an accurate reason - Unlike my cursing of seeing hoardes of Samsung TV's coming into my repair shop for decades - now that is a valid complaint!
As are the current repeated major faults of their exploding washers, cementing their reputation as a garbage brand.
I researched water heaters extensively before I replaced mine, which by the way was a 1987 AO Smith that started to leak in 2020.... after 33 long years!, quite a long time for an American-made hot water heater.
So far, my new one's been just fine at 6 years old, me and my neighbor did the installation. - and they suggest some maintanance every so often to drain and replace the anode rod to insure long life, which surely my old heater likely never had.
The 2005 GE/LG air conditioner is fine now after replacing a faulty compressor connection in 2024. - a clue as to cost-cutting and using cheap spade lugs.
My 1987 Maytag dryer needed a new gas valve solenoid coil which I replaced about 15 years ago, which costed me about $10, no big deal.
vacerator
Well-known member
GE Smart water heater from 2002 still going. Has the stirrer thingy in it to clear sediment. Had a 12 year warranty. We only keep it at about 140 degrees.
Tankless water heater, dates to early 2004. The flow meter failed in 2011, known issue with the unit. A redesigned component had been produced. Sourced the part, DIYed the job.
1) No need to maintain a large volume of water continuously heated for future tasks, so no standby loss. Heated water doesn't exist until a tap is opened. It's not unusual that there's no heated water produced for a day or more.
2) No need to overheat the water for a given task. The output temperature is adjustable in 1°F increments from 50°F to 140°F. The unit is in a broom closet in my laundry room adjacent to the kitchen, easily accessible for setting to the need.
1) No need to maintain a large volume of water continuously heated for future tasks, so no standby loss. Heated water doesn't exist until a tap is opened. It's not unusual that there's no heated water produced for a day or more.
2) No need to overheat the water for a given task. The output temperature is adjustable in 1°F increments from 50°F to 140°F. The unit is in a broom closet in my laundry room adjacent to the kitchen, easily accessible for setting to the need.
vacerator
Well-known member
Local code requires a 6 inch flu and chimney liner replacing the 3 to 4 inch used for over 75 years.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
I'm amazed how my AO Smith water heater appears to be a huge improvement over the old heater.
The outer cabinet is always at room temperature, a sign of excellent insulation.
The burner seems to never fire up, unless I wash clothes, dishes, or shower.
And the gas usage also seems less on my utility bill.
And with any exposed hot water pipes wrapped in those foam tube insulation, it only takes a few moments to get piping hot water.
Quite satisfying.
Hi Mike, reply number seven
I think you really missed the point here. There was never a refrigerator where the defrost heaters were on constantly. That’s not how they reduced energy consumption on refrigerators.
Energy conservation on refrigerators was done in many different ways. The biggest single ways were better insulation in the cabinets better door, gasket design, reuse of wasted heat in the refrigeration cycle to prevent condensation around the freezer doors which eliminated electric heaters. More efficient compressors, more efficient fan motors computer controls so they only defrosted when necessary not every six hours of running time like GE refrigerators did throughout the 70s, etc. etc. there are many changes that resulted in the savings that we enjoy today.
John L
I think you really missed the point here. There was never a refrigerator where the defrost heaters were on constantly. That’s not how they reduced energy consumption on refrigerators.
Energy conservation on refrigerators was done in many different ways. The biggest single ways were better insulation in the cabinets better door, gasket design, reuse of wasted heat in the refrigeration cycle to prevent condensation around the freezer doors which eliminated electric heaters. More efficient compressors, more efficient fan motors computer controls so they only defrosted when necessary not every six hours of running time like GE refrigerators did throughout the 70s, etc. etc. there are many changes that resulted in the savings that we enjoy today.
John L
vacerator
Well-known member
Thank's John! That was how I thought our 1967 Coldspot Frost free worked. Maybe it that the fan ran almost always?
Matt, glad it has lasted for you. I remember the glass lined RUDD in my folks first house. I was original from 1946 and was still working when we sold it in 1978.
Matt, glad it has lasted for you. I remember the glass lined RUDD in my folks first house. I was original from 1946 and was still working when we sold it in 1978.
Unfortunately, the EPA and EU don't seem to get that part. They insist on the most miniscule improvement in effiency or reduction in emissions, regardless of the effect on the lifespan of the product. It seems lost on them that manufacturing, shipping, selling replacements for the junk on the market today far outweighs the usually small improvements in energy and water use or emissions. It's as if what's invested in making things isn't even part of the equation. Of course, the EPA and probably EU are all led by executives that came from industry, so there might be the answer...
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Training and convincing the consumer to purchase something new, and more "Earth Friendly", is just a ploy to stimulate sales, revenue, and keep the cash flow going.
If such propaganda is continually pushed, long-term, people will believe its true, like politics.
The same thing goes for the Pharmaceutical industry and its myriad of "wonder" drugs and procedures, and those Snake Oil companies.
I'll say it again, it's manipulation of the masses, conditioning and controlling society for the benefit of Big Corp.
They need you to get rich so they can throw those impressive dinner parties in their mansions.
vacerator
Well-known member
Savings of anything is incremental. It's often several or many small details. The same as you earn or lose on a share dividend based on incremental market changes. It's not one day or even a month. one example is The travel time difference at driving 55 mph vs. 60 for a 200 mile trip. You only save a few minutes, or maybe a gasoline if the car got 10 mpg. However, that figure over a year is substantial multiplied by thousands of vehicles. It's not only about you! It is in the long run, and for your grand kids. Not that you have any, but we do. So as my dad used to say; su-fe' nuh! playing the finger violin.
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