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remember years back when george jr. said "he heard thin

Well, he probably did. There's the internet we use and then
there's the other one he uses where God tells him to attack
Iraq. (Next he'll tell us it was a mistake and someone stole
God's password and hacked in and impersonated God - how was
poor George to know?)
 
Oxydolfan my hatred of the Catholic Church is my own and for my own reasons. They were not kind to me. I dislike all organized religions, to be honest, but I also recognize that they all have equal freedom to exist -but I expect to be free from their respective moralities. I did not mean to offend, merely to express my own disgust.
 
Then kindly keep your disgust and any further calls to "eradicate the Catholic Church" to yourself, please.

Many of us have had conflicted histories and very difficult times dealing with our own, and other, assorted faith traditions, the organizations that form their institutional bodies, and some of their more difficult representatives, but never is it right to show hatred toward those very institutions that give aid and sustenance to others (particularly health institutions, aid to the homeless, healthcare and AIDS hospice, etc.), not to mention some level of spiritual peace to those who choose to seek it, as well as freedom for those who choose not to.

There are many men and women in our communities who are deeply involved in their spiritual communities here. It means something to them.

And I'm sorry I yelled at you, and I'm sorry you had the bad experiences you mentioned. I'm sorry that so many in our communities have had such negative interactions.

As a gay man, practicing Catholic and (occasional) student of Kabbalah, I am probably oversensitive on this subject.

I apologize to the aw.org community for disrupting this conversation with my anger and not checking my ego.

Again, have a wonderful weekend!
 
Sheesh. One judge has an insightful view and you see scores
(well, fewer than scores in this article, but you know they're
out there) attorneys and politicians saying they have to set
things right. I was proud of our southern neighbor at the beginning of the article (if MN could be so enlightened), but
then they had to darken the mood. Damn F**king bigots!
 
Jeeze Dale, come on, this is good news all around, everything is baby steps 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards. Remember the very first gay marriage happened in MN in the early 1970's.
 
Yes, remember, even civil rights...baby steps. Way back when, it was illegal, immoral, a hanging offense for a white person to marry a black person. How far we have come...but it took baby steps and lots of fights. We too will have our day. Just going to take time. If this can happen in Iowa, of all places, it can happen anywhere.
 
Straight man posts proudly from enlightened State

I'm glad to see that sense is spreading, slowly but surely. I'm a libertarian at heart, though, so my attitude is "unless you can prove to me why he shouldn't have it, let him have it". Nobody's ever given me a good answer why gays shouldn't be able to marry and I can't come up with one myself. Yay progres!
 
Still a long way to go, but this is a big step.

This is a big step in the right direction. You just know there were people rushing off to pray for mercy from their sky-god to spare them from the evil that has crept into their state through the devil-possessed judicial system. The b-bangers seem to forget that the judge has taken and oath and sworn to uphold the laws of the state and country - and that is what he has done. His job is not to interpret a bible, it is to interpret the LAW and protect the process of applying that law fairly and equally to ALL.

I find some of the reader comments quite amusing - and expected.

"But I am fighting to keep my beloved God blessed Iowa from becoming a godless land of perversion for my children and their children and will not stop fighting."

Then we have the myth propagation lady who would cram her bible on anyone she perceives as unclean. Also no surprise is the word "hate" used by someone, like so many, claiming to 'love thy neighbor as thyself' - yeah.

"I DO love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul and all my mind. I also love my neighbor as myself. It always completely amazes me when people try to say Christians are full of hate. So because we have moral standards and strong convictions that makes us hateful? Have you ever heard the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin?" ALL of us are sinners. Have you read the book of Romans? This particular sin was addressed. Have you ever asked yourself if AIDS is God's punishment on homosexuals? The highest percentage of AIDS cases is STILL through male to male contact."

And I just thought this retort to a moronic crack about the gay community and it's "members" was a cheap shot, but still pretty good:

"The NAMBLA comment was just kind of silly. And straight people have an organization just like that, but you have to be a Catholic priest to join."
 
AIDS and Gay Men:

"Have you ever asked yourself if AIDS is God's punishment on homosexuals? The highest percentage of AIDS cases is STILL through male to male contact."

And the lowest is through female-to-female contact. Does this mean that lesbians are God's chosen people?
 
I suppose

I just get tired of small minds. If they want to live in their
self-righteous, little worlds I can't stop them. But it makes
me mad when they think they have the right to impose their
twisted morals and logic or religious viewpoint on other people
(or countries), especially when they seek to codify their views
by enacting repressive laws.

If there was a gay marriage in MN in 1970, it didn't last long
(legally):

http://www.leg.state.mn.us/lrl/issues/gay.asp
"The Minnesota Supreme Court was one of the first in the nation to rule on the issue of same-sex marriage. The Baker v. Nelson decision (191 N.W.2d 185) in 1971 held that Minnesota Statutes prohibited marriages between same-sex partners."
 
If there was a gay marriage in MN in 1970, it didn't last long (legally):

Well yes that is obvious, but my point was that the very first gay marriage in the USA happened here in 1970. The reason the MN Supreme Court ruled on this case was because of this one particular marriage. I'm still none the less thrilled that a marriage license was issued to a gay couple here 40 years ago. Long, albeit slow baby steps. I'm willing to bet it wont be long now before they are issuing them again, probably within 10 years if that.
 
"And the lowest is through female-to-female contact. Does this mean that lesbians are God's chosen people?"

You made me snarf my coffee.
 
Anyone read any good books on religion lately? I've got one for ya - by Richard Dawkins 'The God Delusion.' If I had it my way I would make it compulsory reading for all high school students and imcumbent politicians.

Here in Oz some legislation is being passed to give same-sex relationships some form of legal recognition, but it is still a far cry from affording us equal rights under civil law. I can't help, but feel, that we are being tossed a few breadcrumbs by the establishment, to make us shut up and go away. Unfortunately that is largely happening, too. Hoping seems to have replaced political lobbying, dissent and proactive campaigning against the social and legal inequities that non-heterosexuals are still facing. As far as I am concerned the baby steps, that are currently being taken to fix this situation, move forward by one and back by four.

Anyway, if you haven't already picked up a copy of the abovementioned tome, I recommend that you do so - even if you are a person of faith, it still makes for intelligent, informative and enjoyable reading.
 
Yay for Iowa!!!

Ah yes "my beloved God blessed Iowa", where I lost my virginity (both times) back in the 80's...

Iowa is an interesting place: Eastern and Central Iowa (with the exception of the Dubuque area) are both pretty progressive - or at least live-and-let-live. They would probably accept this.

Western Iowa, on the other hand, is pretty backwoods. That's where the stink will probably come from.
 
"Way back when, it was illegal, immoral, a hanging offe

for a white person to marry a black person."

It probably still is in some of the hillier counties in some states. I don't think I'd want to test it in, say, Tennesee. I heard their state motto is a joke:

Cletus: Say Paw, I'm gonna marry that virgin round the hill, Mary McCoy.

Paw: Ain't she 13, boy?

Cletus: Jes turned, Paw.

Paw: Well forget it. If she's not good enough for her own kin, she ain't good enough for you.

(ducking and running)

Chuck
 
I'm willing to bet it wont be long now before they are i

I don't know. Maybe we've gone a number of steps back, and there
will be some giant steps forward to compensate, but the opposition
seems to be making more strides than the good guys in MN. Or am
I just a pessimist?

Glad to see a number of couples in IA will take advantage before
the possible stay, etc, are ordered/enacted. Nice to have a
foothold in the area, no matter how tenuous it might be.
 
but the opposition
seems to be making more strides than the good guys in MN. Or am I just a pessimist?

I see the last election as a huge win for the good guys here and in a lot of other places across the country. Granted my glass is usually half full, but I think what you were seeing is simply a mirror image of what has happened politically across the entire US over the last eight years. I feel good things are right around the corner for the entire country; the pengelium has stopped moving right and has just started to swing back.
 
If a Federal ruling states that it is illegal to prohibit gay people from Marrying(my mouth is watering), that could add a little sometin' sometin' too. Just a thought.

Poll after Poll shows that younger generations don't have a problem with gay people. So then you come to that thought you don't want to have
'when are the older people going to go away?'

Frequently that is a problem, the outdated ways of doing things. Older generations have more time on their hands so they tend to get more involved in public policy. Like Voting.
That is why we see their 'ways' of thinking awkwardly showing them selves in the real world. It isn't a mystery.
Vote young people.

lol, remember years back when george jr. said "he heard things on the internetS" lol
what a loser.
 
Well, they put a hold on issuing new licenses, but not before 200 or so people got them. I'm sure some of the more religiously-challenged (as opposed to religiously-enlightened, of which there are many) will try to pass a state constitutional ammendment, but we'll see.

Personally, I'd like to see the government out of the "marriage" business altogether. I think that any couple (M/F, M/M, F/F) who wants to have their relationship acknowleged by the state should be issued a civil union license. If that same couple wants to get "married", they would need to go find a religion that will sanctify their particular arrangement.
 
"Frequently that is a problem, the outdated ways of doing things. Older generations have more time on their hands so they tend to get more involved in public policy. Like Voting."

That's actually not the case where I am, especially in the ethnically-based and working-class communities where war is the official religion, and any other agenda item on the neocon platform gets swept along for the ride.

Here, a large number of the young have bought into the "fear" trip, and it guides all of their other choices (as opposed to older people, who are much more concerned with the financial stability of the nation and are far more likely to wave off social issues with a "live and let live" attitude.
 
Dan said: "Personally, I'd like to see the government out of the "marriage" business altogether. I think that any couple (M/F, M/M, F/F) who wants to have their relationship acknowleged by the state should be issued a civil union license. If that same couple wants to get "married", they would need to go find a religion that will sanctify their particular arrangement."

Perfectly stated! I couldn't agree more!
 
I too agree entirely with that concept.

Some people have complained that allowing gay marriage would force churches to compromise their moralities by forcing them to marry gay couples.
First of all I say "Big Fecking Deal" to this, the law gives the shaft to plenty of other churches and customs and I for one would dance with glee were the catholic church to be eradicated.
Second of all, I think that seperation of church and state is an important concept and that seperating the legal aspect (civil partnership, which could benefit many people such as longterm roomates, caregivers to the infirm, siblings living together, the elderly, etc) from the religious elements, is a very good thing. If some church wants to develop obscure criteria for marriage, let 'em -but the can't keep anyone away from the state's benefits, which is as it should be -maximum freedom for all parties involved.
 
"I for one would dance with glee were the catholic church to be eradicated."

Oh? Really?

Is this not a hate-filled comment of your own?

Would you make it of Muslims? Of Jews?

Then what makes you think it is an appropriate comment for this website?
 
Am I the only one who sees that OxyScott has created a new date for August. That being
8/32/07

Kewl.
 
The date glitch happens occasionally when a post hits at the right time-frame during day/date changeover. I've seen it several times, but apparently some people haven't. :-)
 

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