This is the end...my friends...KUDS220T1 retires.........

[panthera]

We were so excited to have finally found a Superba a few weeks ago.

Got her installed, advanced the stuck timer, cleaned her up, reattached the top rack sprayer connection...

And she washed OK.

OK as in, not as well as our 1966 KA top-loader with the bottom impeller and nothing else.

Cleaned filters, checked that the pump was pumping, etc.

Still cleaned...OK...but not as well as the 1962 MobilMaid we said goodbye to last year...

So, this is a picture of her running her last load. Temporarily, she'll be replaced by (don't gag) a Triton which cleans just as well as the 1966 KA does.

If anybody is desperate for parts let us know SOONEST as my partner is very hard up for space and, given the choice between long-term storage of the 66 KA and this one, there is no choice at all. Eventually, we'll find a pure chrome, bells and whistles gen-u-whine Hobart KA in better condition.

Drop us a line at: [email protected] and we'll try to help you. Please note that shipping will be from Colorado and not Germany, still, nothing is light on a KA...

 

[stevet]

I bet it is a simple problem!

Have you considered the possibility that the wash arm support may be damaged or not working?
The problem with these supports is that the lower white nylon bushing on the support, comes loose and when the water begins pumping, it moves up and actually closes off the water supply to the lower wash arm. Does all the stuff in the top rack come clean but the bottom rack is barely clean? If so, that's your problem.

I have seen many machines of this type tossed out for that reason. Between water quality and detergents and use, these bushings will come loose as well as if the wash arm is removed hastily and is pulled out unevenly, it can sometimes catch the bushing and dislodge it.

Do check that out as this is a good washing dishwasher. It is based on the Genuine Hobart 21 pump with the real disposer in the pump and will outclean just about anything when working properly.
If the bushing is loose, it is nearly impossible to fix it so it stays put, but you can try some epoxy from underneath as the whole support does come apart in pieces.
If not, I have a few of them available as I am sure others here do too.
The bushing in question is pointed out in the picture below by the tip of the screwdriver. It sits atop the brass washer that locks the wash arm in place.

Give it a shot and see what you find and next time, post here first before you pull the machine out!

 

[panthera]

Steve,

Thanks.
We haven't pulled her yet.
This one doesn't have the soft food disposer, in many ways, she is a mixture of the good old and the really rotten new.

The lower spray arm is working perfectly, tho' the epoxy tip is going into my files, thanks.

The top rack cleans from below, but the tops of stuff have enormous food residue left on them and nothing to clean them off.

It's just not quite what a KA should be, not even one from 1991.

Thanks, again for the good info - I copy and paste such tips into my little 'someday, someway' book...incredible what I've learned here since the yahoo days!

 

[stevet]

First things first and back to basics!

First,the 22 series shared the same pump as the 21 series which means it DOES have the metal drain impeller/disposer set up which is worlds apart in form and function from the so called "soft food" disposers machines of the same time frame and current ones use. That unit will finely grind most anything thrown at it and store it inside the soil chamber beneath the wash arm support which has that very fine mesh filter. The soils are then washed down the drain when the motor reverses and the holes on the underside of the wash arm spray down onto the mesh screen.
I tested this once by putting a 4 cup percolator basket of coffee grinds right into the d/w and ran a rinse and hold cycle only and there was nearly no grinds left on anything in the machine.

Now back to the basics.. Have you checked the water level in the machine after it finishes filling? It should be just up to where the wash arm sits where the space is between the wash arm and the filter. If it is not at that level, then you need to check the screen in the inlet valve for debris.lime, dirt etc.The screen is super fine and will clog up easily if the water quality is bad or through years of operation. If you got this machine from someone else, chances are the screen is clogged. Without the proper amount of water, the wash arms cannot pump water high enough or thru the upper rack to bounce off the top of the tank to get the "yibbles" off the stuff on top.
In the pics to follow, you will see something that Hobart added at some point to address the problem. I have seen many 21 series with this feature and I have had this in all my machines and have put this part in where the original was lacking the feature.
In order to deliver water to the tops of the dishes or cups and glasses in the top rack, there was a slit cut into the water delivery manifold that would spray water over the tops of the dishware in the top rack. It was a simple idea and one most can do if they don't have the slit on the manifold on their current machines.
A hacksaw bled is just slightly thinner that the dimension of the OEM slit but should do the trick if the "yibbles" are a problem.

Another thing to check is the blue tube that delivers the water to the wash arm under the top rack. They would often rot out or get soft and leaky in the middle especially around the drain hole that it has in it. Eventually, the will be a loss of pressure to the upper arm and that will affect the cleaning up there.
I would inspect it and see what it looks like. While you are at it, Turn the tube 180 degrees and point the hole up instead of down so that you can monitor the wear on the tube. I think it's better to just let the water drain out of the tube into the wash arm than have the hole as the lowest point and have the water eroding the hole further, but that's just me!

And one last thing, and this is not meant as an insult to you or anyone here and applies to any make or model of dishwasher.. Do scrape off the food from the dishes before putting them in the machine. There really is only so much any machine can handle.
These will handle just about anything, but do take out the filters and clean them from time to time. The pump does need water to get into itself in order to pump properly. Also make sure that nothing is stuck inside the nozzles of the wash arms including the small nozzles at the ends of the upper arm as well. A toothpick can be used to clean those out.

These are all of the things any service tech will check before condemning any machine as a poor washing unit.
There are some quirks about these machines like the single final rinse and not multiple rinses but very few people on here really have cleaning problems.

 

[stevet]

Another view..

Sorry about the blur. Can't seem to get the focus right on this digital cam!

 

[panthera]

Steve,

I trust your greater knowledge than mine - I have yet to find that macerater in this machine, maybe it was removed...
Screens cleaned already, yup, totally limed up when we got it.
I'll try the slit trick.

I don't pre-rinse, coming from the world of Miele.
My partner and his guests are all members of the "wash it in hot water with suds, rinse then load" side of the dishwasher isle and it doesn't matter.

You've given me some leads and I appreciate that, I'll look again before pulling the plug.

 

[stevet]

Does this help?

Check the PDF at the link above. Go to page 9 and check part 36. That is the Disposer/Shaft seal assy that sits under the wash impeller, item number 9. Item 19 is the drain pump top but has teeth or guides in it thru which the drain impeller passes and grinds the food up into small pieces.
This will help you locate the macerator.
Note how I said it was nothing like what we see on other machines that use a stationary plate or a spring loaded whip?
BTW, the 18-19-20 series did use a stationary plate as well and whatever passed thru it was cut down to a smaller size only when the machine was in drain mode. It did not grind, and capture the soils and then send them down the drain.
Hope this helps.

http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Repair%20Part%20List%20-%204171459.pdf

 

[spankomatic]

Is it draining properly? Our KUD-18 was not doing well years ago. Turns out some broken glass got into the pump and it was not draining all the way. After replacing the impeller and removing the damaging glass it was good as new.

Jim

 

[panthera]

Oh, ok -

Now I get it.
Macerater working.
Pumping water out great.
Water level correct.
Upper-rack spray arm whirling merrily.
Lower spray arm working great.
Water temp when sure-temp reached: 145F.

Still washes worse than any KA I have ever used in my life.

It's below zero here right now and we have 8 new inches of snow so this one is going to have to wait until July. I've made a note of all this great info and will post on her again then. For now, the GE Triton XL is back in place and, yes, in the 107 year old kitchen it does not look nearly as good as the KA did...but it is also washing and cleaning perfectly and that is a consideration.

Thanks everybody, this story is not over...unless someone desperately needs parts. For that, we'd be happy to say goodbye to her.

 

[combo52]

TOP RACK CLEANING IN KA DWs

The little slit that was cut in the water supply for the top arm on 19 & 20 KAs was so they could say it still has the very effective constant rinse feature that the 16-17-18 KAs had. While I am sure it helped a little it was no where as effective as the spinning arm in the middle. The biggest complaint I have with my KDSS20 is the bits of food residue on the tops of the glasses in the top rack.I have the feed tube with the slit. I have been tempted to install something like the main pump and motor from an asko DW etc in the water feed tube to the upper wash arm. Next to the main motor to really get a decent amount of water pressure to the top rack to see if this helps the particle problem. I never considered having any KA after the 20 as the 21- 23 only have one final rinse and any one who knows me knows I an not a nut when it comes to excessive rinsing when doing laundry but I do like my dishes rinsed twice after they have had detergent on them. KA went to one rinse with the 21-25 series to save water they also felt very thrightened by Asko,Bosch,Melle as they were starting to sell DWs here in the 1980s. Its to bad that we spent so much time trying to make DWs like the European machines as none of these machines has ever been able clean the amount of food soil or hold as many dishes as what we had already. Having to pre-rinse dishes and having a machine run over two hours and still end up with wet dishes doesn't save energy. They are quite.

 

[bobbyderegis]

My KDS 20 has no slit in the blue upper wash arm tube, and it never leaves a bit of food residue on the tops of cups or glasses. My mom's KDS 23 cleans beautifully well too, and it's so quiet. Even though the 23 is the first Whirlpool KD, it still has the Hobart design.
Bobby in Boston

 

[combo52]

UPPER WASH FEED TUBE

Hi Bobby the slit for the constant rinse feature would be at the top of the white plastic feed tube near the ceiling of the tank where tube is pressed into the black rubber grommet.