this is why folks are concerned about the health bill

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

H

hunter

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
1,734
Location
Colorado
I expect most of us who have employer subsidized health insurance won't any longer very soon:

>“As a result of this legislation, including the additional tax >burden, AT&T will be evaluating prospective changes to the >active and retiree health-care benefits offered by the >company,” the carrier said in the filing.

This bill will cost AT&T 1bn in the first QUARTER since this bill was signed.

 
The bill, projected to cost almost $1 trillion, also calls f

That is JUST a DROP in the bucket as to what is really going to happen
The bill, projected to cost almost $1 trillion, also calls for new taxes on the highest earners and fees on health-care companies.
 
Yes - one political thread

is enough and the one on HC bill is Thread #27650.... but, think it's about run its course - we've pretty much cussed and discussed the entire thing from left to right and everything in between. But there's always room for one more on that thread so, post on.... enjoy!
 
Isn't it great that employer sponsored health insurance

will be a thing of the past and most Americans will be able to afford their own cover. Some employers may still choose to provide health insurance as part of their remuneration packages, but losing one's job won't mean losing one's cover.

After the initial hysteria things will calm down and America will begin to love this bill. It benefits 90% of the population. The remaining 10% can afford to pay for everything in cash and don't need to buy insurance, so they don't really give a stuff either way.

Olav
 
Er, Olav, No.

Much if not the entire enterprise is built upon employer sponsored health insurance.

There are mandates for large, medium and small companies must offer health insurance, or face fines. Tax credits will be provided to assist the smaller firms, but make no mistake about it, the scheme is driven by employers picking up a bulk of this idea.

Persons whom are unemployed or who work for employers whom do not offer insurance, will be able, no scratch that, must purchase same from other sources.

While there are a few things that are supposedly going to bring down the cost of insurace, even the wildest Obamamanics admit some persons insurance rates will increase. This mainly will fall upon most whom already have coverage. The whole thing is built upon Obama's "Robin Hood" theory of government; taketh from those whom haveth, and giveth to those whom do not.

The main idea supposed to bring the cost of insurance down is the fact that *all* Americans are required by mandate to have coverage by a certain date, those whom do not in theory will be fined. The fly in the ointment for this and all the other fines will be if persons simply pay them (or don't), and do not sign up for any coverage. Off the bat it is known all those who are sick and or could not get insurance coverage will flock to the thing, however if not enough healthy persons sign on (they are needed to pay into the scheme, but not pull benefits, at least just yet, sort of a cash cow as it were), insurance costs will certianly rise.

Finally nothing in this bill sets costs for any of these new insurance coverages. That was left up to the trust in market forces.
 
One thing

that is true in every real religion, from Christianity, to Islam to Judaism, is a variant of "Do unto others as they would do unto you."

It's about freaking, freaking time that it was put into practise, no?

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
If that is the case why did Congress and Obama exempt themselves from having to join the same insurance "markets" they seek to round everyone else into? IIRC, some federal workers will be moved there, but not members of Congress, senators, and certian members of their staffs. Nor will any members of the White House or administration.

Considering the rather generous health-care benefits (which by the way are for life regardless of being in office for them and their familes), it would have been an nice gesture, no matter how symbolic.
 
"If that is the case why did Congress and Obama exempt themselves from having to join the same insurance "markets" they seek to round everyone else into? IIRC, some federal workers will be moved there, but not members of Congress, senators, and certian members of their staffs. Nor will any members of the White House or administration."

Launderess is right, it would have been a nice gesture for our top elected officials to use the same system that we're supposed to use, but had that provision been a part of the bill it would have never passed through Congress. The big point about this bill is that we have to start somewhere with health care reform, and this is it. Remember that quite a few representatives and senators still feel our current system works really well, in spite of the fact that millions of people in our nation have no health care benefits and can't afford insurance.
 
Wish To Make One Point Clear

Do think making health insurance available to all Americans is a good thing. My qualms are how the thing was gone about.

Obama made it clear healthcare was going to be his priority, and has also stated he does not care if it makes him a one term president. My problem lies in unforseen or perhaps forseen problems swept under the rug.

The United States is essentially bankrupt, we are fighting two wars on credit as pretty much everything else since we continue to spend more than revenues provide. China and Russia along with other nations that hold a bulk of this debt aren't going to go on doing so forever.

In college one read a great book "The Rise and Fall of The Great Powers" (see link below), and would recommend it highly to anyone seeking a good read.

Long story short, if the United States does not wake up, it will go the way many former great empires, Britian, France, Spain, etc; that is supplanted by a new empire, and will give you one guess who that might be..

en.wikipedia.org

The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Again,

This bill does not directly bring down costs, it merely provides ways for many to obtain insurance. No, scratch that, there maybe a few things here or there that *might* or in theory bring down costs, but none of them kick in right away.

Just look at the last huge government health entitlement, Medicare/Medicaid. Both were hailed in their day, and still provide well enough, but they have grown and now cost so much as to threaten the federal govenment's balance sheets.
 
Okay - I didn't start this one but have something to ad

Why didn't the government just choose to cover those uninsured and leave the rest out of it? I have coverage thru work but not free of charge - everyone here pays part of the premium whether single or family and that being the case just let us keep what we have - don't require us to take up some cumbersome government mandated insurance under threat of fines or, perhaps, imprisonment..... that has been mentioned you know. Cover those who need it but can't get it and those who have it leave them alone along with those choosing not to have it. We have a group of younger folks here where I work that choose not to take insurance for a few years and take it up later.

Just my thought and I know there will be several who will be glad to tell me why this can't or shouldn't be and why I need to pay into something I don't need. Also, I agree with the idea that congress and the WH need to be required to take their medicine on this and be required to take the insurance they are forcing upon the rest of us and they should be fined or imprisoned just like is being proposed for the rest of us if they don't take it. So a big BITE ME to them on this one!
 
No piece of legislation

ever passed by any legislative body is perfect, but to me, who was without health coverage from the ages of 19 to 43, this is better than nothing.

Tweaks WILL be made along the way.

If you already have coverage, be very, very grateful. Be glad that others are relieved of massive burdens of worry.

Email in profile, you so-and-so's!

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
Back To The OP

Make no mistake about it, armies of accountants and lawyers have been engaged or will be consulted as businesses large and small consider how this bill will affect them directly.

There is such a thing as the law of unintended consequences, and that does have more than a few persons worried.

Employers with many older or retired workers may choose to end certian coverage now that those persons can get onto Medicare/Medicaid.

Employers may choose decrease their workforce (and seek gains in productivity), to lower their exposure to certain requirements of the law. Or, simply not hire as many new workers.

Unions and others may now have a huge fight on their hands when it comes to future benefit packages, as employers decide to hold the line even harder against costs.

Employers may move their business out of the US to avoid the law totally. Much of the EU and UK have had "national health" schemes for years, which greatly increases the cost per worker, and even there companies from Miele to Gucci are moving jobs to lower cost countries.

Employers may decide it is simply cheaper to pay fines than offer coverage. Long as unemployment remains high, replacing workers who leave say for lack of health insurance coverage will be easy.

Employers may decide to give less generous wage increases to compensate of increased health coverage costs. As it is wages for most American workers has not kept up with inflation over the past several decades, so imagine what this could do.

Employers may decide to turn more positions over to freelancers and or agency employees, thus moving the cost of health coverage off their books.
 
Technically, this should have been tacked on that other thread, but--to change a proverb for washer collectors--there is no sense in locking the laundry room after the wash is stolen.

One concern I have about this whole "we'll drop insurance coverage!" line from corporate America is that this is the direction they are probably heading in, anyway. In fact, I've seen articles that (before the current health care reform bill passed) suggested that within the next 10 or so years, we'll be seeing a dramatic decrease in health benefits.

Such articles are a "best guess" at best, of course. But I have no trouble thinking it can/will happen. We've seen so many other things that workers once took for granted vanish. How many companies still have a pension plan instead of a "it's your problem!" attitude.
 
Louis is correct, the agreement was until I get the new forums up and running only one active thread about politics is allowed. I closed the other thread, if a new thread about politics gets started I will close this one if I happen to see it, which is not always.

After the initial hysteria things will calm down and America will begin to love this bill.
Unfortunately Olav its going to take a generation or two, but its a step in the right direction. If one child in this country who is without health care now gets health care from this bill then its all worth it in my book. The idea of people not being able to afford or simply get health insurance must seem downright neanderthal to all of those outside the USA.
 
Laundress wrote:

"Long story short, if the United States does not wake up, it will go the way many former great empires, Britian, France, Spain, etc; that is supplanted by a new empire, and will give you one guess who that might be.."

Didn't Britain, France, Spain, etc. have their empires based on colonial possessions? Spain lost its possessions in the New World and the Philippines through rebellions, revolution, and war. France lost its colonial possessions through sale (Louisiana), revolution (Haiti, Algeria, Vietnam), and Britain though revolution (America, India) and market forces (the rest of the Commonwealth). I submit that what America faces is quite different: we are (and have been for decades) in deep debt to other nations. This is somewhat unprecedented: the world's sole superpower being economically beholden to others. In a sense we are the mercenaries of the developed world. About 2/3 of our budget goes to military expenses. As long as the rest of the world sees our military power as enhancing, and not degrading, international trading stability and their own self interests, they'll be happy enough to carry our debt.

One thing for sure: we are not quite as "free" as we'd like to think!
 

Similar threads

ronhic
Health Care and the US
2 3
Replies
43
Views
44
hunter
H

Latest posts

Back
Top