this is why folks are concerned about the health bill

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Partisan politics, and a misinformed public.

Would you be so excited about this if George W. Bush was pushing this? I doubt it. And, I never mentioned anything about parties. It's just wrong to require people to buy a commodity.
 
This should not be a partisan issue . . .

Intriguingly, it’s been mentioned that the new health care bill is in many ways similar to the one championed by none other then Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. There aren’t but two ways to ensure people have health care: either to require them to have insurance, or for the government to provide and run a healthcare system and as such obviate the need for insurance. It was the Republicans who objected most strenuously to the latter possibility, so we can thank them for having the former as this was the only way possible to get their support. In the end they didn’t give any support, but many accommodations were made for them along the way.

Health care isn’t a normal commodity like buying a car. Having some form of insurance should be considered a responsibility for all adults, as it’s the only way to ensure that you won’t become a burden on others in the event of an illness or accident. Whiteking, how would you feel if I were uninsured and came to visit your city and then suffered a catastrophic accident? I could end out costing King County and Washington State literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax money for my care, even though I don’t live there. I should note that I pay thousands of dollars each year for my insurance, and believe me I could use that money in many, many more pleasurable ways. However, it's my responsibility to take care of myself.

Having large numbers of uninsured people is just bad all the way around, and wastes a lot of tax money too.
 
Sudsman:

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss, and the anguish that you have had to undergo. You are in my prayers, and may your Aunt rest in peace.

God Bless,
James
 
However, it's my responsibility to take care of myself.

That is exactly what I am talking about. It is YOUR responsibility, NOT the governments!
 
It is YOUR responsibility, NOT the governments!

A government's responsibility is good governance. This is usually achieved by formulating and implementing policies that lessen social and economic disparities, create opportunities, empower the individual and provide the basis for social and economic opportunity and justice. Such policies represent an investment in the biggest resource any country has; its people. This means getting real bang for your tax bucks.

How can anyone be responsible for their own health care when the private health insurance sector has proven itself irresponsible and the ability of assuming this responsibility is beyond the financial capacity of tens of millions of American citizens?

If you don't want good governance (but you will still have to pay taxes), you can move to any country south or your border. Or try the Philippines, China, Afghanistan, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Sudan et al; there are hundreds of countries where the prevailing attitude is 'every man, woman and child' for themselves. There you can bribe your way to good health care outcomes, regular mail deliveries, garbage collection, employment, a roof over your head, you name it, there is an appropriate bribe for every mood and occasion.

My business partner's mother contracted Leptospirosis during sever flooding in Manila last year. She was in a private hospital for three months, due to complications, at a cost of US$1000 a day. There was no insurance or government assistance to pay for it. The family paid for everything out of their own pockets, including the ongoing full-time care she now requires at home. Is that the kind of system that you want America to emulate?

Perhaps you are financially independent enough that paying $10,000 or more for health insurance every year doesn't bother you. Or, perhaps, you can afford to pay for all of your treatments with your Platinum Amex card. Good luck to you if that is the case, but that doesn't help anyone else.
 
I personally don't have a Platinum Amex card. But since having a high credit score is "good for you", maybe the government should require every citizen to have one! Why stop there! Let's turn ALL insurance over to the federal government. They can handle auto, homeowner's, renter's and all the rest. Why not let them tell us what food to buy. After all, if the government can get everyone to eat healthy it will lessen the load on the taxpayers! Why not? BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY! The government does not have the right to tell it's citizens what to buy and what not to buy.
 
That's right...it's YOUR responsibility. But it's governments responsibility to make sure all CITIZENS have equal access to health care. And right now, that is not the case in this country because access is controlled by a private industry whose main objective is profit in most cases. An industry that routinely denies coverage based on medical condition or coverage that is priced out of the reach of the CITIZENS it is supposed to protect. That's what should make people angry. So those who fall into that class who need care either don't get it, get it at great cost to the health provider because they're unable to afford to pay for it, or depending on their income levels, wind up on medicaid, which we all get to pay for.

So, yeah, everyone should have coverage, and the private insurance industry that provides this coverage is not going to make that possible on their own. We either go this route, or, dare I say it - we regulate the insurance industry at the federal level. And that's a less palatable option.

It's funny...governments tells us we have to have auto insurance, your bank that holds your mortgage, with approval from your state's department of insurance, tells you that you must have homeowner's insurance, and business owners who employ individuals must have worker's comp insurance and pay unemployment insurance. Yet no one argues that those are policies designed to protect individuals or their employers from potentially catastrophic harm. So what is wrong with having to have health insurance coverage? I would never dream of getting in my car without auto insurance, why wouldn't I want to protect my most valuable asset - my health or my family's health? I guess it's all according to what's really important to you.
 
business owners who employ individuals must have worker'

No So Business in many states DO NOT have to have workmans comp.. Texas is one of them.. many business here have nothing at all. A lot of fast food places have you sign a form upon employment stating you understand they offer NO workmans comp. Only about 50 % of the business in Texas offer it. Lower in some other states. Some states it is mandatory.
 
So, if business are not required to cover their workers

who ends up paying the successful compensation claims? Could it be the taxpayers?

As far as this health insurance bill is concerned, it has passed and is now law. There is no point in pursuing circular arguments anymore. Whatever will happen in three years is anyone's guess. But, whether it's the ass or the elephant in the Whitehouse, it will not go back to what it was.

Hopefully this new system will serve as a foundation to something that may one day become the envy of the world. Who knows?

Good health to all.

Olav
 
Hopefully this new system will serve as a foundation to some

That is your opinion which you are entitled too but opinions are like ass holes everybody has one!
 
I read on the one of the homepage news that the Health bill will cost employers such as Caterpiller,GM,etc $100 MILLION per year.Here comes that "sucking" sound-employers are going to move overseas!
 
And dont forget

the thousands that ARE already GOING to Mexico hear that sucking a bit louder now?
 
'opinions are like ass holes everybody has one! '

And that is usually not such a bad thing, unless the former emanates from the latter.

If there is a loud 'sucking sound' somebody must be having a good time.
 
The "cost" to companies is found in their losing their tax writeoffs for retiree health benefits, which they will no longer be able to deduct since they won't have to provide them under the bill, which closes those benefit loopholes. It's not a direct cost.
 
Once again,

in the case of auto insurance, remember, you don't have to drive a car. In the case of homeowner's insurance, you don't have to own a home. This bill is requiring you to pay for something (or pay a fine) just for being alive. It is infringing on our right of free choice, and that is beyond scary. The more control we give to the government, the less freedom we will have.
 
As I understand it you can certainly "opt out" of the plan, but it may cost you a few dollars.

If you do drop out don't show up at the hospital with a critical medical emergency if you don't roll a big wheelbarrow full of money in with you....
 
Another thing BAD about this new legislation--even if you have a health plan under your employer-as I do-they pay half-I pay half-and even if you don't use the benefits yet-they can be subject to taxation under this new system-now how good is that?--if the benefits are taxed--you end up with LESS dont you?
 
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