Thoughts on the Goodman GMSS96060 furnace
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vacerator
Well-known member
Goodman,
There are only 2 or 3 Furnace manufacturers left. Lennox, and Carrier, and Rheem, I think. Bryant is Carrier. Goodman is not Rheem, I think it is Carrier.
Just as there are only Copeland, or York air conditioning unit compressors and heat pumps made today.
There are only 2 or 3 Furnace manufacturers left. Lennox, and Carrier, and Rheem, I think. Bryant is Carrier. Goodman is not Rheem, I think it is Carrier.
Just as there are only Copeland, or York air conditioning unit compressors and heat pumps made today.
Goodman is owned by Daikin
And to the best of my knowledge, they are manufactured in house using their own designs.
Carrier owns ICP who markets arcoaire, Tempstar, Comfortmaker, Heil, Day & Night, and Heil.
Rheemn/Ruud one of the same.
Lennox makes Lennox and a subsidiary called Allied Air markets Air Ease, Concord Ducane, and Armstrong Air.
Nordyne (cursed microchannel crap) makes Intertherm for mobile homes, slaps a Maytag and Frigidaire name on their stuff.
Coleman is a subsidairy of York which in turn is owned by Johnson Controls.
Trane is trane I believe
Bottom line, beyond the actual heat exchanger design and construction and the outer cabinet, everything else is off the shelf parts. Inducer motors, HSI devices, blower motor, gas valves, etc. For the most part, you pay for large marketing programs and dealer markup. And the name of course. Ask Trane how well it works. People will pay top dollar for a Trane that beyond the aforementioned stuff, is pretty much the same box as everyone else.
And to the best of my knowledge, they are manufactured in house using their own designs.
Carrier owns ICP who markets arcoaire, Tempstar, Comfortmaker, Heil, Day & Night, and Heil.
Rheemn/Ruud one of the same.
Lennox makes Lennox and a subsidiary called Allied Air markets Air Ease, Concord Ducane, and Armstrong Air.
Nordyne (cursed microchannel crap) makes Intertherm for mobile homes, slaps a Maytag and Frigidaire name on their stuff.
Coleman is a subsidairy of York which in turn is owned by Johnson Controls.
Trane is trane I believe
Bottom line, beyond the actual heat exchanger design and construction and the outer cabinet, everything else is off the shelf parts. Inducer motors, HSI devices, blower motor, gas valves, etc. For the most part, you pay for large marketing programs and dealer markup. And the name of course. Ask Trane how well it works. People will pay top dollar for a Trane that beyond the aforementioned stuff, is pretty much the same box as everyone else.
gusherb
Well-known member
Rheem/Ruud is owned by the Japanese company Paloma, and Trane/American Standard Air is owned by Ingersoll Rand.
Also United Technologies is the parent company of Carrier and ICP.
Regarding Trane, apparently they give big volume discounts to contractors if they sell enough of them in a year. I got a quote from a company in 2011 and they quoted something like 9 grand for a Trane system and 6k for a Tempstar system. Two years later I was quoted 6k for the exact same Trane equipment as two years prior by the same company. I took it and ran.
Also in 2008 I was given a very reasonable quote by a different company quoting Trane equipment, I was at that time, ready to settle on Armstrong or something like that so I also took that and ran.
I think if offered Trane equipment at nothing more than the price of others, it's a great deal. I think they still stand out in several ways, not enough to overpay for but if offered at the same price as others I would pick Trane all day.
Also United Technologies is the parent company of Carrier and ICP.
Regarding Trane, apparently they give big volume discounts to contractors if they sell enough of them in a year. I got a quote from a company in 2011 and they quoted something like 9 grand for a Trane system and 6k for a Tempstar system. Two years later I was quoted 6k for the exact same Trane equipment as two years prior by the same company. I took it and ran.
Also in 2008 I was given a very reasonable quote by a different company quoting Trane equipment, I was at that time, ready to settle on Armstrong or something like that so I also took that and ran.
I think if offered Trane equipment at nothing more than the price of others, it's a great deal. I think they still stand out in several ways, not enough to overpay for but if offered at the same price as others I would pick Trane all day.
Other HVAC compressor brands I have seen-Carlyle Compressor-found in our Carrier Chiller units at work.Tecomseh makes compressors for HVAC equipment and commercial refrigeration.
vacerator
Well-known member
Tolivac, Techumse
is defunct. No longer around. However, there is a new make form Japan on the recent scene.
is defunct. No longer around. However, there is a new make form Japan on the recent scene.
vacerator
Well-known member
Re; Trane,
Thanks for that info. Gusher. Good to know. After we replaced our only 20 year old Bryant plus 90 furnace with a high end Lenox, I was told that parts are hard to get.
Thanks for that info. Gusher. Good to know. After we replaced our only 20 year old Bryant plus 90 furnace with a high end Lenox, I was told that parts are hard to get.
Good that Tecomseh is still around building HVAC compressors.The gas small motors are no more.
vacerator
Well-known member
Techumse gas engines,
Is till have my 1988 magnesium deck Toro with a 3.5 horse Techumseh.
Is till have my 1988 magnesium deck Toro with a 3.5 horse Techumseh.
I used to have a Toro mower with a Tecomseh engine-got stolen.that motor truely started on the first pull and worked well.Best small motor I had.Later models had Briggs&Stratten motors-not as good.Sold the one with the B&S motor.Just didn't like the mower.
My experience with Techumseh
engines was mixed. If you babied them, kept the oil meticulously changed and did not screw around with the governor spring to rev them higher, they would last. Sort of. I lost track of the number of engines that I saw with a thrown rod. Even the 13HP unit on Dad's Ariens gave up the ghost after 10 years and threw the rod. Right through the block! We had on on a Garden way (not MTD) troybilt pony that did ok, but I made sure the oil never got black and I never over revved it.
engines was mixed. If you babied them, kept the oil meticulously changed and did not screw around with the governor spring to rev them higher, they would last. Sort of. I lost track of the number of engines that I saw with a thrown rod. Even the 13HP unit on Dad's Ariens gave up the ghost after 10 years and threw the rod. Right through the block! We had on on a Garden way (not MTD) troybilt pony that did ok, but I made sure the oil never got black and I never over revved it.
Around here
most people didn't like Tecumseh engines. B&S all the way! My dad won't have anything but. Now my push mower has a Honda engine on it...now that's an engine! Always starts first pull. But my Snapper rider has a B&S on it, 16 years old and still starts first pull.
most people didn't like Tecumseh engines. B&S all the way! My dad won't have anything but. Now my push mower has a Honda engine on it...now that's an engine! Always starts first pull. But my Snapper rider has a B&S on it, 16 years old and still starts first pull.
vacerator
Well-known member
Greg,
sorry for calling you GAN on my last post.
My Techumseh always started on the first if not second pull. Yes B&S have a better reputation. My current Troy Bilt has a big 7 cu. in. one on it.
Once in a while it will vapor lock or something if I shut it down in mid mowing.
sorry for calling you GAN on my last post.
My Techumseh always started on the first if not second pull. Yes B&S have a better reputation. My current Troy Bilt has a big 7 cu. in. one on it.
Once in a while it will vapor lock or something if I shut it down in mid mowing.
centenialguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2016
- Messages
- 82
ben,
I don't think any furnaces have been union made for a very long time.
Neither are the sales, or service companies, yet look what they charge.
I don't think any furnaces have been union made for a very long time.
Neither are the sales, or service companies, yet look what they charge.
Carrier/Bryant is/was union
West side of Indy. The same plant that is closing and moving to Mexico.
I have some anti-union acquaintances that browse this board (they are not members) who happen to detest unions and actually think unions and collective bargaining are of Satan himself. So from time to time I drop a line about product x being union made etc just to put a dig at them.
Actually Goodman does/did have a plant in Fayetteville TN that was unionized. It is closing also but at least the work is going to Houston (non union) factory that Daikin is expanding. I believe my furnace was made there but my AC unit was "put together" in Houston.
West side of Indy. The same plant that is closing and moving to Mexico.
I have some anti-union acquaintances that browse this board (they are not members) who happen to detest unions and actually think unions and collective bargaining are of Satan himself. So from time to time I drop a line about product x being union made etc just to put a dig at them.
Actually Goodman does/did have a plant in Fayetteville TN that was unionized. It is closing also but at least the work is going to Houston (non union) factory that Daikin is expanding. I believe my furnace was made there but my AC unit was "put together" in Houston.
centenialguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2016
- Messages
- 82
ben,
A unionized plant in Tennessee? I'm shocked!
I think Carrier is the maker for Goodman. Goodman buys wholesale and re badges and marks them up for a profit.
Still, $59 bucks is not that bad. An hvac guy wanted to charge me $200 for a $30 humidistat from China.
A unionized plant in Tennessee? I'm shocked!
I think Carrier is the maker for Goodman. Goodman buys wholesale and re badges and marks them up for a profit.
Still, $59 bucks is not that bad. An hvac guy wanted to charge me $200 for a $30 humidistat from China.
centenialguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2016
- Messages
- 82
ben,
At times, a union is necessary. I've been on both sides of that fence myself.
In my former business, without it, I'd have had to fire a few managers who really mistreated some employees. The contract allowed me to transfer one or the other.
It's not only about money, but didn't unions help grow the former middle class?
At least that's what my grand dad told me. Came here at age 6 from Italy. He worked up to foreman at Crucible Steel in Midland Pa. he detested lazy workers, but said if not for the US Steel Workers union, he'd have never had much.
At times, a union is necessary. I've been on both sides of that fence myself.
In my former business, without it, I'd have had to fire a few managers who really mistreated some employees. The contract allowed me to transfer one or the other.
It's not only about money, but didn't unions help grow the former middle class?
At least that's what my grand dad told me. Came here at age 6 from Italy. He worked up to foreman at Crucible Steel in Midland Pa. he detested lazy workers, but said if not for the US Steel Workers union, he'd have never had much.
Here's a vid of Goodman factory
Does not look like a Carrier facility to me.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FgCoTbh49s
Does not look like a Carrier facility to me.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FgCoTbh49s
Goodman is NOT Carrier
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/AboutGoodman.aspx
They belong to Daikin which is Japanese.
http://www.daikin.com/about/why_daikin/japanbrand/index.html
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/AboutGoodman.aspx
They belong to Daikin which is Japanese.
http://www.daikin.com/about/why_daikin/japanbrand/index.html
vacerator
Well-known member
Guy's,
If you go to Google maps in Huntington Indiana, you will see the United Technologies Carrier plant there. They also brand for Rheem, and Amana, and the first video posted by washman shows about 2/3 the way through.
If you go to Google maps in Huntington Indiana, you will see the United Technologies Carrier plant there. They also brand for Rheem, and Amana, and the first video posted by washman shows about 2/3 the way through.
vacerator
Well-known member
Now we are talking
air conditioning units, not furnaces.
As the Goodman website is a sales tool for them, and says they had a warehouse in Houston TX., well that is close to where Lenox is.
air conditioning units, not furnaces.
As the Goodman website is a sales tool for them, and says they had a warehouse in Houston TX., well that is close to where Lenox is.
Lennox facilities
*Lennox Industries Division Facilities Headquarters: Richardson, Texas
*Research and Development Facility: Carrollton, Texas
*North American Parts and Distribution Center: Des Moines, Iowa
*Marshalltown Factory: Marshalltown, Iowa
*Stuttgart Factory: Stuttgart, Arkansas
Both Carrolton and RIchardson are in the DFW are. Goodman is down by Houston
*Lennox Industries Division Facilities Headquarters: Richardson, Texas
*Research and Development Facility: Carrollton, Texas
*North American Parts and Distribution Center: Des Moines, Iowa
*Marshalltown Factory: Marshalltown, Iowa
*Stuttgart Factory: Stuttgart, Arkansas
Both Carrolton and RIchardson are in the DFW are. Goodman is down by Houston
vacerator
Well-known member
Ok then, it is difficult to keep track of who owns who.
Does Goodman actually have a factory? They do not say.
The plant west of Indy, in Huntington is the plant which is closing, owned by UT Carrier.
There used to be three compressor companies left. Copeland, Tecumseh, and York.
The cabinets for most brands only have two shapes today. Same as with the furnaces, except for Trane. A Payne unit looks identical to a Carrier.
Do they all have Fasco motors for induction and forced air?
Daikin is Japanese, and has only been on our market a few years.
I think we will see more split units like LG and Mitsubishi make, especially in new construction.
Does Goodman actually have a factory? They do not say.
The plant west of Indy, in Huntington is the plant which is closing, owned by UT Carrier.
There used to be three compressor companies left. Copeland, Tecumseh, and York.
The cabinets for most brands only have two shapes today. Same as with the furnaces, except for Trane. A Payne unit looks identical to a Carrier.
Do they all have Fasco motors for induction and forced air?
Daikin is Japanese, and has only been on our market a few years.
I think we will see more split units like LG and Mitsubishi make, especially in new construction.
Yes Goodman does have a factory
all of it is being consolidated in Houston (non union) Texas. Dayton TN and Fayetteville TN factories are being closed.
Payne is Carrier's (UTC) contractor grade furnace.
Dunno if all of them use Fasco or not. Probably whatever is cheapest that gets the job done I would assume per corporate America standards.
Carlyle Compressor is owned by UTC
Copeland is owned by Emerson Technologies
Trane used to have a compressor factory in Texas, it made the Danfoss design that GE called Climatuff. Trane bought GE's residential central AC in 1982.
all of it is being consolidated in Houston (non union) Texas. Dayton TN and Fayetteville TN factories are being closed.
Payne is Carrier's (UTC) contractor grade furnace.
Dunno if all of them use Fasco or not. Probably whatever is cheapest that gets the job done I would assume per corporate America standards.
Carlyle Compressor is owned by UTC
Copeland is owned by Emerson Technologies
Trane used to have a compressor factory in Texas, it made the Danfoss design that GE called Climatuff. Trane bought GE's residential central AC in 1982.
my non union AC running last summer
Ain't she a peach?
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtmZMBIToJA
Ain't she a peach?
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtmZMBIToJA
vacerator
Well-known member
It's pretty quiet!
I've got a 90's Bryant high efficiency (for then) 2 ton variable speed, and a newer Lenox variable speed 2 stage furnace. They work well together.
Blower ramps up slow, no hot or cold blasts of air, and runs a good full minute or so after the outside unit shuts off to clear the ducts of cold air.
I've got a 90's Bryant high efficiency (for then) 2 ton variable speed, and a newer Lenox variable speed 2 stage furnace. They work well together.
Blower ramps up slow, no hot or cold blasts of air, and runs a good full minute or so after the outside unit shuts off to clear the ducts of cold air.
It does ok
the fan motor is a Chinese sourced "broad Ocean" label, probably the cheapest of the cheap.
It carries the freight up here with ease. It does not run constantly. Only thing is the furnace is single stage, full on or full off, no gradual ramp up on fan speed.
Goodman's are noted for weak start/run capacitors on the condensing units. I have priced out a USA made replacement that I will order soon to have a spare. They are easy to change.
Beyond that, my cost of running is pretty nil compared to the condo. With the cold weather spurts we've had, I would have a $100+ gas bill over there. Not here.
What does cost are the Aprilaire 413 filters. THey are good, last a bit, but I pay around $40 incl. shipping to get them here from an outfit in Ohio.
Get back to me in 5 years or so which will give the unit time to break down. I'm sure the doodads that make it tick are not the most durable but there are some things I know I can replace myself thus saving a service call. All the HVAC outfits around here service Goodman along with other common brands.
FYI I think you had Thermopride in mind when you said Carrier makes their outdoor units. Actually those are made by Johnson Controls (Coleman, York, Luxaire, Champion). They have facilities in Norman OK, and Witcha KS. They also use a lot of microchannel "technology" (total BS) in their outdoor coils. IIRC I think they also slap the storied "Airtemp" name on some of their stuff too.
the fan motor is a Chinese sourced "broad Ocean" label, probably the cheapest of the cheap.
It carries the freight up here with ease. It does not run constantly. Only thing is the furnace is single stage, full on or full off, no gradual ramp up on fan speed.
Goodman's are noted for weak start/run capacitors on the condensing units. I have priced out a USA made replacement that I will order soon to have a spare. They are easy to change.
Beyond that, my cost of running is pretty nil compared to the condo. With the cold weather spurts we've had, I would have a $100+ gas bill over there. Not here.
What does cost are the Aprilaire 413 filters. THey are good, last a bit, but I pay around $40 incl. shipping to get them here from an outfit in Ohio.
Get back to me in 5 years or so which will give the unit time to break down. I'm sure the doodads that make it tick are not the most durable but there are some things I know I can replace myself thus saving a service call. All the HVAC outfits around here service Goodman along with other common brands.
FYI I think you had Thermopride in mind when you said Carrier makes their outdoor units. Actually those are made by Johnson Controls (Coleman, York, Luxaire, Champion). They have facilities in Norman OK, and Witcha KS. They also use a lot of microchannel "technology" (total BS) in their outdoor coils. IIRC I think they also slap the storied "Airtemp" name on some of their stuff too.
In general beware of the variable speed DC blower motors.One of the guys that is on my shift had his fail.Replacement was like $500!!So he purchased a fixed speed replacement thru Graingers and saved about $300.Did an autoposy on the old motor-board was potted but you could see where the blown board components vented thru the epoxy potting.Sometimes that stuff catches fire!
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